The FBO asked me: "Why are pilots so cheap"

When you are used to not being charged, everything seems pricey. That said, the fee specified doesn't seem that bad for a desirable location. One of the stops I frequent has as similar policy, and the location isn't desirable at all.

All that said, the person who called the pilot cheap was well out of bounds. I would have asked to see a superior, and requested contact information for said superior if he or she wasn't present.
 
I just spent $200ish for a (cheap end) brake disk, a few quarts of oil, air filter, and two brake pads and some hardware :-(
 
Used to cost zero to stop somewhere, go do your business there, and then depart later that day. Overnight they would charge a small fee. I used to fly Part 135 and fly to MEM all the time, drop off and/or pick people and never had to buy fuel or pay a fee. BUT that was years ago. I did have to pay various fees flying into ATL back then which are probably a lot higher today. Small airports never charged anything other than an overnight parking fee. Times change. I think it's disgusting though what some of these FBOs charge for someone just picking or dropping off someone. I understand they have to pay rent/lease fees too. Federal dollars so there should be a ramp or area where one could do that without being charged. Overnight fees I can see. Transient fees, no. But they just won't listen to me!
 
SkyDog58 said:
If we want to compare parking rates for cars vs. airplanes, let's look at the rates for cars at an airport. Here are the parking rates for cars at CLT.

Long Term Lots 1 - $7/day

Hourly Deck - Free/first hour | $1/each additional 30 minutes | $20 max/day

Daily North Lot - $8/day

Daily Decks (East and West - $10/day

Business Valet Deck - $14/day

To me it makes sense that parking an airplane might cost as much or more.
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...and unlike the fine folks at Wilson, no one greets me, by name on occasion, unloads my gear, brings an umbrella if needed, and gets it all in the running rental car before I can get there. How much is the parking at Wilson? I forget


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Another benchmark, my enclosed hangar in MA, only semi podunk, works out to around $11.50 a night....


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I suspect this is a continuing function of the decline in traffic. Fixed overhead (lease payments, utilities, payroll) continue whether you have one visit per day or 50. But if you only have one, you've got to cover that overhead somehow. I flew into Marathon (KMTH) and stayed two nights at no charge (I did buy ~20 gallons of fuel) but that was 7 years ago. There was not a lot of traffic then.

This does not mean that some FBOs are NOT gouging. Some (Signature, possibly) are probably doing it to chase away customers who do not provide profit. Bank of America intentionally did that to a class of personal bank customers who did not use credit nor incur fees-I was one. It's a business technique: raise prices to chase away customer you don't profit from without "banning" customers which would be illegal. Increase the fees until the ones who stay you are now making an acceptable profit from to be worth the trouble.

As long as traffic continues to decline and FBOs stay open, we will se more of this. At least until all line personal are robots...

John
 
FloridaPilot said:
They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?"
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If this is how they're going to treat me, how are they going to treat my plane when I walk out of the door and leave her in their hands for a couple of days? I would rest much easier leaving my plane in the hands of professional, customer-oriented staff even if they charged me twice as much. $30/night to know my plane is being treated well versus $15/night to show up Sunday afternoon with anybody's guess as to how she was handled?

Pilots are cheap because they don't want to pay for unnecessary maintenance bills.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.
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Why would you take their side? You asked how much. If they asked me why pilots are so cheap, I would have asked why inquiring how much something costs makes me cheap. I'm asking so I can pay, not so I can be cheap. Cheap is what most pilots do at small airports, tie down and get out of there without talking to anyone, then take off without paying anything.

You want to see cheap pilots, get in to photography. Go spend tens of thousands of dollars on camera equipment and hire pilots to fly you and pay for their expenses. Then tell a plane owner you'll give them a discount and only charge them $500 for an air-to-air session! What??? $500!!! I watched a guy make a decision to put a $30K panel in his plane. He asked me how much for a photo shoot. I told him $500. He said that sounded a little high. I didn't even reply, just smiled and walked away. After getting quotes from a few other photographers, he's now leaving me voicemails. Pilots are cheap! Good thing this isn't how I make my living.
 
Key West cost me $90 for overnight and 10 gallons of fuel. They even waived some $30 fee and gave me 50 cents off/gal on the fuel for a weekend "special". For some reason I still feel shafted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Lindberg said:
Because they have a monopoly.
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More likely because they have to recruit CSRs from the local hiring pool. I doubt it is company policy to insult your customers. They are not Comcast......
 
Turningfinal said:
Typically the airport, and many times that public ramp is (partially) paid for with federal funding.

I know AOPA and others (NBAA?) are supporting an effort to research and fight against absurd ramp fees and FBO consolidation. FBOs should not be able to charge $100 to drop off passengers on a public ramp paid with tax dollars if they're not using any services.
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And the municipality is charging the FBO a monthly lease amount for that paid for piece of property. Are they supposed to eat it? In that case, the beef is with the municipality for not making the space available for self parking (which very few do).
 
Personally, you have to ask because some of his peers are charing $50/night! Aopa is working on these abuses and lack of transparency. if we all knew that parking was never going to be more than 10-15/night, i'd probably never bother asking, but I can't just park and then be surprised if they charge $50/night.

I wouldn't leave over a $15/night charge, but others would, but I find the way he challenged his customer to be insulting.
 
weilke said:
More likely because they have to recruit CSRs from the local hiring pool. I doubt it is company policy to insult your customers. They are not Comcast......
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Well played sir :D

And yes, this is a classical "sorry Robert, $5 doesn't buy my undivided attention" dynamic, which I've highlighted before. The FBO hires local low-paid aviation-apathetic random local, then that's the kind of impression they impart on the customer base, however fleeting or not said customer base might be. Happens all over service sectors, and it's frustrating because it really isn't the customer's fault your employer doesn't pay you enough to give a f^**.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Well played sir :D

And yes, this is a classical "sorry Robert, $5 doesn't buy my undivided attention" dynamic, which I've highlighted before. The FBO hires local low-paid aviation-apathetic random local, then that's the kind of impression they impart on the customer base, however fleeting or not said customer base might be. Happens all over service sectors, and it's frustrating because it really isn't the customer's fault your employer doesn't pay you enough to give a f^**.
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Oh my. "If only my employer paid me more I'd care." And that attitude stinks! (I'm about to go into "get off my lawn!" mode.) Be faithful with little and you'll be given more.
 
FloridaPilot said:
They (FBO) asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight.
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To which you could ask; why are FBOs so expensive. The FBO may forget all of us own the ground they are renting back to us.
 
citizen5000 said:
To which you could ask; why are FBOs so expensive. The FBO may forget all of us own the ground they are renting back to us.
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Actually the ground is owned by a local govt for the benefit of their community. . Unless you live in that jurisdiction, in no way are you an owner.
 
Just did a weekend trip to Edenton, NC (KEDE). I paid $25 a night to put it in a hangar and fuel (self-serve) was $4.24 per gallon. On the way home we stopped off at Concord (KJQF) to have lunch with family. We were there for an hour and a half. I had them top it off and paid $4.68 per gallon for fuel was hit with a $12 ramp fee.
 
These folks are providing services which we desire/require. Restrooms. Fuel. Internet to check weather. At the very minimum they are paying for maintenance of the physical facilities they occupy (via lease payments if nothing else) and staff to make all this stuff happen. And every year, they are providing it to less & less of us. How do you propose they pay these costs?

And yes, I know the airport runways and taxiways are probably legacies from the training buildup in the 1940's. Yes they are on government owned land. But somebody is paying for maintaining all that.

Given how tight the profit margins are in most of these operations, why would they bother to stay open if everybody gives them crap about being "too expensive" and "you're just profiting off of land "I" own."?
 
FloridaPilot said:
Well,

I forgot to tell you when I landed in Marathon FL. I asked them how much was the fee for a few nights to park. They gave me a certain look and I asked them what was going on. They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.

Why are Pilots so cheap?
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My question back to them is: "what is your out of pocket expense for me tying down the airplane on an airport that the FBO does not own?"
 
EppyGA said:
Just did a weekend trip to Edenton, NC (KEDE). I paid $25 a night to put it in a hangar and fuel (self-serve) was $4.24 per gallon. On the way home we stopped off at Concord (KJQF) to have lunch with family. We were there for an hour and a half. I had them top it off and paid $4.68 per gallon for fuel was hit with a $12 ramp fee.
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I would feel much better about spending $25 for a night in a hangar than $.50 a night to tie down on a piece of asphalt that would otherwise be bare anyway.
 
Clip4 said:
Actually the ground is owned by a local govt for the benefit of their community. .
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The point being the land doesn't belong to the FBO. And there is reciprocation. Visitng pilots are taxpayers for their local fields renting out to others in the same way.
 
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jsstevens said:
These folks are providing services which we desire/require. Restrooms. Fuel. Internet to check weather. At the very minimum they are paying for maintenance of the physical facilities they occupy (via lease payments if nothing else) and staff to make all this stuff happen. And every year, they are providing it to less & less of us. How do you propose they pay these costs?

And yes, I know the airport runways and taxiways are probably legacies from the training buildup in the 1940's. Yes they are on government owned land. But somebody is paying for maintaining all that.

Given how tight the profit margins are in most of these operations, why would they bother to stay open if everybody gives them crap about being "too expensive" and "you're just profiting off of land "I" own."?
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I will buy fuel, oil or anything else I need from them and I always buy fuel when I use someone's facilities. If they can't make enough from selling fuel, plane rental or whatever products/services they offer, then like any other business, they need to examine their business model and make adjustments or throw in the towel.

That said, if they can get enough people to stand still for paying a monthly rate of $450 for 1,600 square feet of blacktop with three ropes, then they have all the right in the world to charge what people are willing to pay. Unless I end up there in an emergency situation with no alternative, then I won't be paying it. Does that make me cheap? From their perspective apparently so, but I pay handsomely for things when I feel that I am not being taken advantage of.
 
rsleeds said:
And the municipality is charging the FBO a monthly lease amount for that paid for piece of property. Are they supposed to eat it? In that case, the beef is with the municipality for not making the space available for self parking (which very few do).
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Because the other side of the deal to have a "name" FBO lease the space is a stipulation that the municipality can't allow non-FBO ramp access.

Incestuous, non?
 
hindsight2020 said:
And yes, this is a classical "sorry Robert, $5 doesn't buy my undivided attention" dynamic, which I've highlighted before. The FBO hires local low-paid aviation-apathetic [relative of the mayor] local
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FTFY!
 
Because we spend all our money to maintain and fly the plane

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Wha do I get for that $15?

If there is a thunderstorm or heavy winds, you're gonna take care of me? If I'm not there and don't call?

You're not going to damage nose gear pushing me out of the way of the more 'preferred' customers?

You're gonna have me fueled and out front when I say I'm leaving the next day or three days from now?
 
Just find out where the fbo lines are that is not their parking, and park right outside that line.

My dad and uncles grew up during the depression. It was humorous to watch them try to out cheap the other...:lol::lol::lol:
 
MBDiagMan said:
I would feel much better about spending $25 for a night in a hangar than $.50 a night to tie down on a piece of asphalt that would otherwise be bare anyway.
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No doubt. Just be clear I wasn't complaining about the $25 per night. That's damn cheap.
 
cowman said:
Some of us just aren't used to paying for parking. I only have when I've gone to tourist destinations. Going from nothing to $15 feels like a lot.
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It's kind of like downloading free apps on your phone and not wanting to pay 2.99 for a good one.
 
(For the record) She wasn't referring to me, Just venting about some previous pilots that walked out because of the $15 dollars. I didn't care about the fee. I was born in NY so I know all about "fees" (Which some people call toll bridges) and 15 dollars is nothing to complain about.
 
On the lancair forum the question has been raised of why some FBO's charge so much for turboprop singles that are no bigger than a cirrus.
 
FloridaPilot said:
They asked me: Why are "Pilots so cheap?" 15 dollars is very inexpensive to keep an airplane overnight. I didn't have an answer but I took their side this time. They also went on about how a few pilots came though and didn't want to pay 15 dollars and walked out.
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That second response is what most sheeple do:(

I ask by phone every trip as part of pre-planning. KAUS has three separate fees involved with an over-night there, and even if you buy gas you're not getting out for less than $45 ($75 if you skip the fuel). I guess I'm "so cheap" as I need to plan for that fee possibly for multiple nights, as well as ground transportation. I like flying and want to do more trips. A few visits to KAUS starts really eating into the discretionary travel funds.

Now pick another non-towered field, that has a great FBO, is relatively quiet with your area of interest within walking distance or courtesy car. How many of THESE types of trips can you make?

I pay the fees, and at some places they are definitely worth it (KGEU) Glendale, sets up a room for me at the nearby hotel at a much better price than I can get on-line. They're $10 fee is well worth it.
 
If I'm buying fuel, I usually expect to be tied down for the night as part of the deal. That works out at most non-busy uncontrolled airports.

My response would of been "why are so many FBOs stupid and refuse to post their pricing so we don't have to ask?"
 
weilke said:
That both of them take up the same amount of ramp space and require the same towing equipment. Any difference in ramp fee is based on the perceived 'ability to pay' rather than actual cost to provide a service.
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Because a Cheyenne represents more liability on the part of the FBO. Navajos are significantly less expensive to replace than Cheyennes. If somehow the FBO has to replace a prop/engine or heaven forbid the entire airplane, the Navajo is much cheaper and therefore you can offer services to the Navajo for less money.
 
Z06_Mir said:
Because a Cheyenne represents more liability on the part of the FBO. Navajos are significantly less expensive to replace than Cheyennes. If somehow the FBO has to replace a prop/engine or heaven forbid the entire airplane, the Navajo is much cheaper and therefore you can offer services to the Navajo for less money.
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That's BS. They pay one premium for the whole year based on the overall risk.
 
FBOs don't seem to understand that they are leeching off Pilots and Taxpayers.

All the FBOs on the Public airports, that I know of, did not build the airports, they just paid politicians enough to make use of them, and to abuse the pilots.

Their services, to most PP, are very similar to Entertainers, Actors..., that provide no Real services, you could pack them all in and send them to China and all the Real, productive, people would be better off.

A good project for some of the pilot orgs. is to have the Congress pass a law and set aside at least 50% of the spaces they get for transient. I do not want / need their services, I just want to land anywhere there is Public airport without getting harassed.
 
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