The enemy is us -- redux

[Ken Ibold]

In the course of hunting for an airplane to buy, I came across one in Trade-a-Plane that sounded interesting, so I emailed the seller asking for some additional details on the airplane. The response I got was stunning.

This guy has owned the airplane for 13 years, but didn't know either the max gross or the useful load. He couldn't say if a popular mod adding fuel capacity had been done. He didn't know if an important AD had been done. He didn't know if an important, but not required, landing gear mod had been done. He knew the annual had been done in March, but didn't know if pitot/static check and altimeter/transponder check were current. His ad said the airplane was "King IFR" but could not tell me what kind of radios were in it.

I don't know, but I can only hope he's had someone else flying him around.

 

[Bill]

The response I got was stunning.

Ask my wife anything about her car, how many cylinders? displacement? does it have 4 wheel discs? etc.....You'll get a shrug. I'm sure there are plenty of pilots just like this. Gas goes here, key goes here, turn the key and fly!

 

[Bill]

I don't know, but I can only hope he's had someone else flying him around.

Oh, one other thing. Our club Archer III has S-Tec 55x with the altitude preselect/alerter gizmo. Everyone in the club told me when I joined that the plane didn't have altitude pre-select, and all that gizmo did was act as an expensive "dinger" to ding when you get close to altitude.

So I read the POH, learned how to use it, and showed others how to use it, much to their astonishment. There are *some* in the club who still insist the plane does not have altitude pre-select. There is another guy who insists he knows how the nav modes work, and keeps badgering the mx officers to get the plane fixed. Sadly, he is wrong in his understanding of the system. Even worse is that he is an engineer that owns an engineering firm.

Some just don't bother to read or learn anything.

 

[rpadula]

Ask my wife anything about her car, how many cylinders? displacement? does it have 4 wheel discs? etc.....You'll get a shrug. I'm sure there are plenty of pilots just like this. Gas goes here, key goes here, turn the key and fly!

Yabut, there's no FAR's telling her she has to know certain stuff in order to be PIC of the Chevy.

There's no excuse not to know that stuff, especially the airworthiness items in Ken's list. I know I became a whole lot more vigilant when I took the ownership route.

Accept no minimum standards, indeed.


-Rich

 

[AdamZ]

Ask my wife anything about her car, how many cylinders? displacement? does it have 4 wheel discs? etc.....You'll get a shrug. I'm sure there are plenty of pilots just like this. Gas goes here, key goes here, turn the key and fly!

There ya go Bill is right on! My brothers mother in law drove around for a week with the low oil light on in the car. When her engine became one big piece of metal she was asked did it run rough did you see any warnings her response was "No the little Genie light was on but thats it" referring of course to the dummie light for low oil that looks I guess like aladdins lamp doh!

 

[Richard]

I've come across many sellers who were dumb like fox. Admit nothing, provide nothing.

 

[mikea]

There ya go Bill is right on! My brothers mother in law drove around for a week with the low oil light on in the car. When her engine became one big piece of metal she was asked did it run rough did you see any warnings her response was "No the little Genie light was on but thats it" referring of course to the dummie light for low oil that looks I guess like aladdins lamp doh!

My sister did the same thing. She added oil when the oil light came on.

Then came the day that they drove across the state to go to Six Flags with the light on. The engine didn't like waiting that long.

 

[Richard]

Speaking of wimmin and warning lights: my sister has junked three engines because she couldn't be bothered to add oil. She even refused my offers to add the oil for her on one trip. Live and learn.

 

[Bill]

When her engine became one big piece of metal she was asked did it run rough did you see any warnings her response was "No the little Genie light was on but thats it" referring of course to the dummie light for low oil that looks I guess like aladdins lamp doh!

True story:

I was a young engineer working for IBM in NY, and we hired a girl out of MIT, and she was still driving her college beater, a Ford Granada. One day, she came in to work and announced, "The oil light was on the whole way to work, but I think it is OK now because the light went out when I turned off the car." We stared at each other in wonder, then explained the light and she added oil.

A week later the Granada became the Ford Grenade when it threw a rod, leaving her stranded on the Takonic Pkwy...

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

True story:

I was a young engineer working for IBM in NY, and we hired a girl out of MIT, and she was still driving her college beater, a Ford Granada. One day, she came in to work and announced, "The oil light was on the whole way to work, but I think it is OK now because the light went out when I turned off the car." We stared at each other in wonder, then explained the light and she added oil.

A week later the Granada became the Ford Grenade when it threw a rod, leaving her stranded on the Takonic Pkwy...

This is ONE reason why there are only about 6% females in aviation ...but oh, that 6%!

 

[Bill]

This is ONE reason why there are only about 6% females in aviation ...but oh, that 6%!

Not touching that one with a 10ft wing spar...

 

[imQ]

Back when, we had a Olds Cutlass come in to the dealership on a wrecker. The person who owned it complained of (engine noise) The tech walked around the shop later showing an oil pan full of a black substance formerly known as oil. The car still had the original oil filter on it after 38,000 mi. When the service advisor called to tell her she needed an engine, she indignantly said that the salesman who sold her the car had told her it wouldn't need any major service for 30k miles and she was barely over that! When asked in she read the owners manual, she said that she didn't have time.

 

[AdamZ]

True story:

I was a young engineer working for IBM in NY, and we hired a girl out of MIT, and she was still driving her college beater, a Ford Granada. One day, she came in to work and announced, "The oil light was on the whole way to work, but I think it is OK now because the light went out when I turned off the car." We stared at each other in wonder, then explained the light and she added oil.

A week later the Granada became the Ford Grenade when it threw a rod, leaving her stranded on the Takonic Pkwy...

Bill that is hilarious ROLMAO!! Reminds me of my sister whom I love dearly and who is so freaking intelligent and successful she leaves me and my brother in the dust sometimes buuuuut somethings well let just say we just call them Beckyisms. She flies alot for her business and at one time she got a bunch of upgrade coupons allowing the bearer to upgrade from coach to first class for free. My folks were thinking about a trip out to the West Coast to see her and she said when you come I'll give you the upgrade coupons on American. My parents asked her how long the coupons were good for and her response was.......... The entire flight!

My brother and I were cracking up. We could just imagine the stewardess comming up and saying Excuse me Dr. & Mrs. Zucker were over Topeka now your going to have to move back to coach. Oh man we were on the floor.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Back when, we had a Olds Cutlass come in to the dealership on a wrecker. The person who owned it complained of (engine noise) The tech walked around the shop later showing an oil pan full of a black substance formerly known as oil. The car still had the original oil filter on it after 38,000 mi. When the service advisor called to tell her she needed an engine, she indignantly said that the salesman who sold her the car had told her it wouldn't need any major service for 30k miles and she was barely over that! When asked in she read the owners manual, she said that she didn't have time.

My sister bought a used Mustang II coupe back in, oh, 74 or so. She had never driven a stick before, but learned (sort of) in the street in front of our house. Next day she drove to work in 18 miles of stop and go traffic, and then she called me (her not-quite-15-year-old brother) and asked, "That little handle in the middle, does that go up or down?" I told her that was the parking brake and up was brake on.

"Oh. No wonder the car didn't have any pick up."

 

[Anthony]

I was away on business one week, several years ago and my EX-wife (we were still married at the time) took my car to work one day. When I came back from my trip I started the car, put it in gear and noticed the car lurching and a funny noise coming from the rear. I parked the car and went into the house and asked my wife if she did anything with my car (a 1986 VW Jetta GLI). She said no, then re-thought, then said, "Oh yeah, I took it to work one day". I asked if she noticed anything wrong and she said "No, not a thing". I told her the problem I was having then she matter of factly said, "Oh, I tried to put it in gear a bunch of times without the clutch, I kept trying and trying but it wouldn't go into gear." Ahhh, duh, maybe you just smoked my gear box and rear end!!!!! She showed no remorse nor did she apologize.

I started flying lessons six months after we were divorced.

 

[imQ]

My wife, poor thing, had to drive my 66 F-250 to work (this was 1993) she called to say it wouldn't start and I had to explain what a choke was and were to find it on the dash. 30 or so minutes later she came walking into the dealership and announced that she had run out of gas just as she pulled into the parking lot. I forgot to tell her to push the little knob back in after the truck warmed up. A 352 will burn a little over a 1/4 tank of gas in 12 miles if you leave the choke all the way out!!

 

[rpadula]

There ya go Bill is right on! My brothers mother in law drove around for a week with the low oil light on in the car. When her engine became one big piece of metal she was asked did it run rough did you see any warnings her response was "No the little Genie light was on but thats it" referring of course to the dummie light for low oil that looks I guess like aladdins lamp doh!

OK, so does that mean the Genie was out of the engine? Or perhaps he was about to appear and grant three wishes in order to repair the engine!

Man, this whole thread is starting to sound like one wacky Car Talk episode!

Ahhh, duh, maybe you just smoked my gear box and rear end!!!!!

Ummm....I'm gonna borrow Bill's 10-ft wing spar now.


-Rich

 

[gprellwitz]

This is ONE reason why there are only about 6% females in aviation ...but oh, that 6%!

Step away from the keyboard and lie down on the floor. You're playing with a dangerous weapon and you will get hurt!

 

[W.O'Boogie]

I was away on business one week, several years ago and my EX-wife (we were still married at the time) took my car to work one day. When I came back from my trip I started the car, put it in gear and noticed the car lurching and a funny noise coming from the rear. I parked the car and went into the house and asked my wife if she did anything with my car (a 1986 VW Jetta GLI). She said no, then re-thought, then said, "Oh yeah, I took it to work one day". I asked if she noticed anything wrong and she said "No, not a thing". I told her the problem I was having then she matter of factly said, "Oh, I tried to put it in gear a bunch of times without the clutch, I kept trying and trying but it wouldn't go into gear." Ahhh, duh, maybe you just smoked my gear box and rear end!!!!! She showed no remorse nor did she apologize.

I started flying lessons six months after we were divorced.

Just one question with respect to: "Ahhh, duh, maybe you just smoked my gear box and rear end!!!!!"

What did she use to light it and how long did it stay lit?

 

[JRitt]

Back when, we had a Olds Cutlass come in to the dealership on a wrecker. The person who owned it complained of (engine noise) The tech walked around the shop later showing an oil pan full of a black substance formerly known as oil. The car still had the original oil filter on it after 38,000 mi. When the service advisor called to tell her she needed an engine, she indignantly said that the salesman who sold her the car had told her it wouldn't need any major service for 30k miles and she was barely over that! When asked in she read the owners manual, she said that she didn't have time.

38,000mile must be the magic number. A buddy of mine called to help him tow his truck home. The engine died with 38K on it and he never changed the oil. He just added oil when it was low (light comes on add 3 quarts). And talking about parking brakes. My brother in-law flew my plane once and complained that it took a long time till rotation but it flew great. I replaced the pads the next weekend.

 

[Everskyward]

This is ONE reason why there are only about 6% females in aviation ...but oh, that 6%!

But I have to confess I don't know the size or hp of my car's engine either. I just know it's not big enough...

 

[wsuffa]

True story:

I was a young engineer working for IBM in NY..

Hey, Bill, which IBM facility and when?

My ex- worked for IBM/Poughkeepsie (office near the airport), and we lived just south of Fishkill.

 

[jshawley]

My elder son performed a scientific experiment once on our old 68 Dodge Dart, the "deerslayer" (don't ask). The Slant Six had converted itself into a de facto two-stroke (it used so much oil), and he would only add oil only after the idiot light would come on. Seems the sending unit wire came off, and so...

Suffice it to say, Dad was not a happy camper. He still has little appreciation for things mechanical, and his wife just hates to spend $$, even when I explain, yes, brake pads are designed to wear out--that's why you always stop when you push on the pedal.

Sigh...

 

[Don Jones]

Speaking of wimmin and warning lights: my sister has junked three engines because she couldn't be bothered to add oil. She even refused my offers to add the oil for her on one trip. Live and learn.

Someday when my mind is a little clearer, I will tell ya some amazing stories about people and their vehicles. It will boggle your mind what people do when it comes to their car.
Don

 

[Grumman79L]

It ain't just women fellas...

I built motors and crewed a Fuel Hydro in the '90's.
We had a couple of lads that were keen to help every weekend and they're job was to mix the fuel and bring it to the boat.

After a run in which certain parts of the engine "abandoned" the boat ( I have a pic somewhere of the 8-71 blower 20 feet above the boat) the boat was towed in and our two squids showed up,as always, with the gas cans... these two 16+ year old males had no idea that anything out of the normal routine had occured...

Here's yer Sign...

Chris

 

[Frank Browne]

My elder son performed a scientific experiment once on our old 68 Dodge Dart, the "deerslayer" (don't ask). The Slant Six had converted itself into a de facto two-stroke (it used so much oil), and he would only add oil only after the idiot light would come on. Seems the sending unit wire came off, and so...

We had a '63 Plymouth Valiant with the 225 slant six. That engine was darn near bullet proof. One of the best motors to come out of Detroit IMO. It took us on two vacations through the Rockies from Florida, and never gave us any problems. The car finally died when the body rusted away from around the engine.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Mine is a story of "Winter Air".
Girl friend of mine pulled up in a gas station I was working at. I put gas in the car, did the windshield and vacuumed the floor and mats. While doing all this stuff we were chatting and she complained her tires were making noise. She was very concerned. Not wanting to tell her the bottom of her tire would have a flat spot until it warmed up, I pondered a solution.

Well, it was dead of winter in Chicago and very cold; she had nylon tires on the car. I thought if over a bit and got the air hose. Went to each tire and let some air out and put some new "winter air" in. Then I explained to her that she probably still had some 'summer air' in her tires and I had let out all I could and added "winter air". That the tires would still make some noise for awhile until the air mixed together. And it would probably take awhile to quite making noise each morning until the air mixed together each day.

Later that day, she drove by the station and yelled out the window: "it's working!!"

Never said any more about it. Several months later she did come up to me in school and ask that since it was now Spring, did she need to change the winter air out of the tire and put in Summer air. Uhhh, we had a bit of a talk and a good laugh over it.

Best,

Dave

 

[Bill]

Hey, Bill, which IBM facility and when?

East Fishkill, Packaging Lab, 1989-1997.

and we lived just south of Fishkill.

Beacon?

Maybe Cold Spring? (that was a neat little town)

 

[Bill]

Mine is a story of "Winter Air".

On our motorcycle list, anytime a newbie has an electrical problem, someone always pipes up and asked if (s)he had changed the blinker fluid. An amazing # of folks bite...

 

[Bill]

but didn't know either the max gross or the useful load. .

More stupidity.

There are pilots I know who blatently ignore the W&B when they fly. Our Archer III has a full tanks useful of 536lbs, and I've personally seen three very large (at least 260 each) guys depart in that aircraft with full tanks. They are almost 250 over gross, and away they go.

When I challenged them, they looked at me like I was some worry wart, and just said, "Use one notch of flaps on takeoff and it will fly just fine, and after flying for an hour or so, you'll be ok."

Not me, uh uh.

And there is no getting thru to these guys, they've operated like that for years and years and they aren't going to change.

*sigh*

 

[wsuffa]

East Fishkill, Packaging Lab, 1989-1997.


Maybe Cold Spring? (that was a neat little town)

Cold Spring. It was a great little town, I remember many fine evenings sitting on the porch sipping wine down at the little inn (Hudson House? Half Moon Bar?) on the river.

Lived just east of Rt. 9, behind a little shopping center that had a deli in it (and right by the road that went from 9 down into town), our property backed up to the state park.

Left in 1986, though, so it was before you got there....

 

[Bill]

Cold Spring. It was a great little town, I remember many fine evenings sitting on the porch sipping wine down at the little inn (Hudson House? Half Moon Bar?) on the river.

I remember that place, we'd go there often, very relaxing sitting there watching the river. The Hudson Valley is beautiful.

 

[grattonja]

This is ONE reason why there are only about 6% females in aviation ...but oh, that 6%!

My wife, IR rated, complex, etc, isn't all that mechanically minded. So she went out of her way to watch an annual, read the manuals on how everything worked, asked alot of questions etc. She insisted she was going to know everything she could learn about the systems before she went to her private knowledge test.

My mother, OTOH, barely knows where the oil dipstick is. She takes her cars in frequently for servicing, thank heaven. She knows I yell if she doesn't and I catch wind of it. Dad just leaves her and her car to her own devices.

Jim G

 

[tom.]

Mine is a story of "Winter Air".

What about all the people paying $5 a tire for nitrogen in their tires? Tell me, what is air mostly made of? Hint: it ain't oxygen!

 

[michael Killacky]

Cold Spring. It was a great little town, I remember many fine evenings sitting on the porch sipping wine down at the little inn (Hudson House? Half Moon Bar?) on the river.

Lived just east of Rt. 9, behind a little shopping center that had a deli in it (and right by the road that went from 9 down into town), our property backed up to the state park.

Left in 1986, though, so it was before you got there....

I lived in the State Park at Cold Spring in 85-86, when I first went to work for NYS Dept.of Corrections at Fishkill. Great Little town, wish my memory was a little less foggy.

 

[jkaduk]

Someday when my mind is a little clearer, I will tell ya some amazing stories about people and their vehicles. It will boggle your mind what people do when it comes to their car.
Don

I used to fix stereos. Same deal.

 

[imQ]

On our motorcycle list, anytime a newbie has an electrical problem, someone always pipes up and asked if (s)he had changed the blinker fluid. An amazing # of folks bite...

Just curiuos, which motorcycle board?

 

[Len Lanetti]

Ken,

I'm sure you know that if you hang around the FBO lobby or any group of pilots for even a short amount of time you will hear some very dumb things. It can be very scary.

Len