The endless landing practice

Landings on different days will be different. Don't expect to have one selection of power and flap settings that will always work. It is important to know how your aircraft behaves under various power, attitude and flap settings and then choose the right set of choices for the conditions at hand. Whatever settings you choose, always be ready to adjust and adapt to changing conditions on the approach. Practice is both for understanding the impact of your choices and the ability to recognize what the conditions at hand require.

After a thousand hours I still encounter conditions that necessitate a go around. That too is part of the continuous analysis you have to perform on every landing. It gets even more complicated when you do different kinds of landings that require very different choices and aircraft settings. Doing a short landing over trees into a 1500 foot long grass strip that is only 50' wide requires a very different set of power, flap and speed/attitude selections and adjustments than are required for landing on a 7,000' concrete strip that is 100 feet wide. Don't just think about the airplane settings that worked well for a given landing. Also think about the specific conditions that made those settings successful.
 
Owad1971 said:
Hummm.....yes:yes: that is a great idea..I am gonna use this! THANKS!!!!
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Everyone should take a flight w/ other pilots too. You will learn new stuff.

I flew with AggieMike88 and have been doing the CDI thing for the wind ever since.

Also, I do a lot of solo foggles work so I can't always see the windsock. So it is helpful there too.
 
dmspilot said:
Use rudder to keep the airplane's longitudinal axis parallel to the centerline. Use bank to keep it over the centerline. The wind can change, it can be gusty, so you will have to make constant adjustments.

Ask your instructor to do some crosswind approaches via the wing-low (slip) method. There is nothing wrong with crabbing, but entering the slip early gets you more practice time in since you need to do it anyway before touchdown regardless of how you correct for the wind during the approach.
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Thanks.

dmspilot said:
What is your vision?

Do you usually wear sunglasses? If so, maybe they are too dark. You ought to also try non-polarized ones if yours are polarized.
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One eye is 20/20, other has slight cornea damage, so it's a little below the standard. I have to do a SODA with FAA inspector before I can solo. My biggest issue is when I'm joining downwind or already in the downwind and ATC tells me that I'm #2,3,4,5, or whatever following xxx. He won't clear me until I confirm that I have xxx in sight. This is going to be a requirement in my SODA so naturally it's a bit of a concern for me.
 
AuntPeggy said:
How far down the runway are you watching during that last 100 feet? Your view should transition toward the end of the runway and you can glance to the side to judge how high you are above ground.

Seeing aircraft amid ground clutter is difficult. When you lose them, keep looking. If necessary, ask tower to tell you where they are.
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Thanks. As I transition to the landing phase, I have recently started looking farther down the runway and it has helped. I have not been glancing to the side to judge height though. That's a good tip.
 
Jaybird180 said:
What's this busy airport reference? Only 1 airplane should be using the runway at a time! Period! Otherwise it's called a runway incursion and someone will get violated.

Exception is LAHSO and IIRC students may not accept one.
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Busy airport reference is that there are a lot of planes in the pattern usually so being able to spot traffic easily among ground clutter is critical.
 
warthog1984 said:
Q: If your problem is consistent landings before you solo, why do you only have 64 in 40 hours?:confused:

Time for pattern work- practice counts! And if it is 12G20 whenever you go up (on the verge of a 152's envelope); I'd get used to landing in 12G20!

As far as watching for traffic: on short final if it's not on the tarmac, it doesn't exist. Watch the runway and your visual cues.
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For the first few months, we just went up and practices manuevers (slow flight, stalls, and steep turns), so it was one landing per 2 hours slot. The last 4-5 sessions, we've been going up only to do pattern work, but I can only fly on Saturdays and it's very busy so in a 2 hour slot, I get maybe 6 landings; lots of extended downwinds.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Also, I do a lot of solo foggles work so I can't always see the windsock. So it is helpful there too.
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I'm with Clark... ????

This is exceedingly dangerous if you're doing what I think you're doing. VFR is see-and-avoid. If you have foggles on, you'd better have a Safety Pilot in the other seat. Even IFR in VMC it's still your responsibility to see-and-avoid.
 
Meh,

I have found the foggles keep me from getting to dizzy on long flights.
Especially if I have had a few beers.
 
FastEddieB said:
Had to be a joke, right?

RIGHT??? :yikes:
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Of course :D

I had to fly to pick my CFI when in training. I once hopped out of the plane wearing foggles.

Thought I was being so dang clever.
Apparently I am nowhere near the first one of his students to think of that.

Oh well.
 
orange said:
For the first few months, we just went up and practices manuevers (slow flight, stalls, and steep turns), so it was one landing per 2 hours slot. The last 4-5 sessions, we've been going up only to do pattern work, but I can only fly on Saturdays and it's very busy so in a 2 hour slot, I get maybe 6 landings; lots of extended downwinds.
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Are you training in the primary airport for a Bravo?:confused:

With a 2 hour block, you should be getting way more than 1 landing every 20 minutes. If your home airport is too busy, go somewhere else for practice, do T&Gs (have the CFI clean up), use an alternate runway, something!

At this point, what is making you "only fly on Sat"? Can you go after work, during lunch, 2x/day, something?:idea:
 
Consistent flying is the numbers game, speed, power, pitch, trim, etc. Speed control, altitude awareness, and a controlled rate of descent make for a stable approach which in my book (~390 hrs and ~730-ish landings in 34 different make/model aircraft) usually equates to a decent landing. Getting rushed on any of those things can introduce ripple effects that make the likelihood of a nice landing more remote, even causing a well-reasoned go-around.

The only landing that is mandatory is the last one of the day, I remain spring-loaded to go-around so that I am never committed to making any individual landing - don't like winds and not sure you can stick THIS landing, go-around - coyote runs out into your touch down zone, go-around.

I find I rarely if ever actually DO go-around, but I put at least part of that on the fact I am never committed to any individual landing.

Also, I have found that CFI's and DPE's, even the Feds themselves (had to take a Fed on my SODA ride, they can't be delegated) seem to appreciate the willingness to go-around since it is, 99.9% of the time, better safe than sorry assuming you don't have other bad habits (forgetting carb heat when you put the power back in, not retrimming as soon as possible to avoid trim stalls, etc.).

I have heard it said many times and believe that the PPL is a license to learn, it barely qualifies you to operate within the system, and in practical terms it keeps you roughly in the same time/location as the plane. The Instrument rating puts you ahead of the plane so you anticipate rather than react, and the Commercial really teaches you how to operate within the systems and most importantly how to get the most out of the plane.

It is a building block system, we were all there once, and we all have bad days even still - openness to learn is the real key.

'Gimp
 
I never complain when my students decide to go-around. Even when I know they could have fixed it I'll still say good choice. If they don't feel comfortable then they know they have an out.

I still have bad landings. My luck lately is that my students are with me during the bad ones. :rolleyes:
 
Hey if my CFI will sign me off than anyone can land. I'm still a student so trust me you will get it. Just keep going. Best advice he gave me was stop looking at it as trying to land. Your are trying to not land. You no longer have the energy to maintain flight but you want hold it off as long as you can.
 
AcroGimp said:
Consistent flying is the numbers game, speed, power, pitch, trim, etc. Speed control, altitude awareness, and a controlled rate of descent make for a stable approach which in my book (~390 hrs and ~730-ish landings in 34 different make/model aircraft) usually equates to a decent landing. Getting rushed on any of those things can introduce ripple effects that make the likelihood of a nice landing more remote, even causing a well-reasoned go-around.
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So it's not possible to fly consistently with the entire panel covered?

Methinks you've over-simplified and removed the use of other kinesthetic senses in a rush to describe how to gain consistency.

Can you hear the slipstream? Can you feel the control pressures needed? Can you tell engine RPM within about 100 RPM by sound and not looking at the tach? Can you see if you're wings are level? Can you tell 1000' AGL, 500' AGL, 5' AGL without an altimeter?

Etc. :)
 
denverpilot said:
Can you hear the slipstream? Can you feel the control pressures needed? Can you tell engine RPM within about 100 RPM by sound and not looking at the tach? Can you see if you're wings are level? Can you tell 1000' AGL, 500' AGL, 5' AGL without an altimeter?

Etc. :)
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I have flown an aircraft with my eyes closed - I maintained altitude but not heading. Yes, it can be done by feel. I prefer the numbers thankyewverymuch.
 
MY CFI had me close my eyes then said:

Bank 20 degrees left
Now 20 to the right
Now straight and level
Now climb 10 degrees pitch up

Open your eyes

We were in a banking dive. This was early on too scared the hell out of me.
 
There's a big difference between doing it eyes closed and open. I never recommended eyes closed. I was making the point that there's plenty of ultralight pilots who are quite consistent and stable without "numbers". Fly the plane. :)
 
Flying with the instruments covered is not the same as flying with your eyes closed, unless it's in IMC. I don't understand why someone would make that comparison.

I have all my students fly with the six flight instruments covered for at least two laps around the pattern before they solo. I temporarily uncover the altimeter on downwind and we're always within 100 feet--often we're right on the dot. Airspeed on base and final is usually within 5 knots. I find that most people actually fly better this way.
 
You should also cover the engine gauges.

Go hard or go home:D
 
dmspilot said:
Flying with the instruments covered is not the same as flying with your eyes closed, unless it's in IMC. I don't understand why someone would make that comparison.
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Flying with eyes closed is the ultimate test of flying by "feel" so that is why I brought it up. There are very good reasons to have instruments and use them. Flying without them is as pointless an exercise as having someone fly with their eyes closed.
 
Clark1961 said:
Flying with eyes closed is the ultimate test of flying by "feel" so that is why I brought it up. There are very good reasons to have instruments and use them. Flying without them is as pointless an exercise as having someone fly with their eyes closed.
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I'd disagree. I've had two ASI failures. Didn't bother me at all.

But again, it wasn't my original point. If you can't be smooth and consistent without an ASI, you aren't trying hard enough. Case in point... I bet you know the power setting for a 500 FPM descent at 90 knots in the FrankenKota and you can hit it without looking. :)
 
I just wanted to report back and say thanks to everybody who posted landing tips for me in the past week or two. My last 2 times up have been much better. This morning, I hit 2 nice landings, and the rest were ok (had a small bounce due to not flaring in time, but the rest were ok with slight assist). But the key is that I felt more comfortable and in control of the plane (instead of the other way around).

Thanks.
 
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