Thanks N5162R!

OkieAviator

OkieAviator

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OkieAviator
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November 5162 Romeo was the first General Aviation plane to ever fly in since I was a kid. It was the first plane that I solo'd, first plane that I ever put into an accidental spin, first plane for a lot of things. It's an old 174M with original interior and paint and I believe the original engine. I did the first 25 hours or so of my training in this plane. It had it's issues and my CFI really didn't find it that reliable of a plane so we parted ways and I moved one N6307J, but that's a different story. I guess there's something to be said about beat up trainers and sometimes you learn things without really thinking much about it. I learned what a failed magneto was like, I learned what it was like to have a flakey alternator and in fact, have the alternator go out mid flight. On that particular flight it was a non issue because we were less than 10 miles from the airport so we just cut the lesson short and returned early.

That brings me today, 8 months later and on maybe hour 90. There's a flight I like to do between KHSD and KCSM. KCSM has a 13,000 foot runway and you often see heavy's from Altus doing touch and goes. I was doing that flight this evening with two of my kids. Flew the 40 mins out there with no issues did a touch and go and started heading back. My usual routine is once I get about 1000 ft AGL I start looking over everything. Everything looked good except the ammeter was showing a draw... couldn't tell if I was looking at it wrong or if it was indeed not staying in the middle. Didn't want to troubleshoot it while in a climb so I made a note of it and kept climbing. Leveled off about 6500 and turned the alternator off and didn't get a high voltage light. Turned it back on with no changes in the ammeter. At this point I remembered that time in 5162R that my CFI had me turn off the alt and master, wait a few and turn it back on and I know at least in two cases everything started working fine. So I tell my kids to hang tight and I turn off all my avionics and then the master and keep flying for a bit. Wait about 2 mins and turn everything on with no change. Ammeter still showing a draw.

At this point I'm about 25 mins away from homefield. Can't remember if my CFI said battery will typically last 20 mins, 30 mins or 45 mins. My Garmin 650 starts blinking, appears maybe it's not getting enough power so I turn the GPS off. I then start getting concerned that I'll lose my battery, I'm clear from controlled airspace so I turn everything back off again to conserve power. I break out my external GPS, hook it up to my Ipad and get WingX going again. At that point I'm flying over an airport at about 6500 still, there's another one in between me and my homefield and my ETE is 18 mins or so.

By this time it's getting close to being dark. Not knowing how long the alternator hasn't been working I really didn't want to push it by running all the lights, flaps along with the radio. I start a fairly rapid descent, getting my speed into the yellow while watching for traffic ahead. About 10 miles out I power my audio panel and radio 2 on and make my calls, listen to the weather and plan to go right into a left base. I let unicom know I'm having radio issues and to advise any traffic for the next 5 mins until he sees me exit off (FBO is right by midfield). At about a 1 mile base I pull the throttle, leave carb heat off and wait to slow down, as I turn final I drop all the flaps and look out to see they're creeping along extending really slow. As stressful as it was I nailed my approach and landing.

It all worked out and was almost a non-issue. Make me wonder if I would of even noticed had it not been for the issues encountered in training with 5162R. I supposed worst case scenario is the battery would of died about 10 mins out, then I would of just called KHSD asked them to ensure the field was clear and do a no flap landing. Who knows.
 
Just a note for next time...might want to reconsider flaps in that situation. If you had needed to go around, you may not have been able to retract the flaps. Thanks to sharing.
 
Amazing what we can learn from all of our experiences. Usually more from the not so good than the good. Did you confirm that the alternator bought the farm?
 
Well done, honestly flying without electrical in most planes is really a non event, going to a uncontrolled field even more so.

So what was the diagnosis?
 
So you contimued the flight after problems during takeoff, then passed up 2 closer airports because some procedure dealing with the electrical system worked in another airplane some time ago?
 
murphey said:
So you contimued the flight after problems during takeoff, then passed up 2 closer airports because some procedure dealing with the electrical system worked in another airplane some time ago?
Click to expand...

If I understand, he was flying in E airspace to a uncontrolled field, electrical failure in that plane in those conditions would be a land as soon as practical, not land and soon as possible, IMO :dunno:

If what I said above is correct, I'd have flown it the short hop back to it's home drome too, where the shop is, etc.
 
Highlights an interesting side effect of a decision some may not realize they've made during retrofits.

If you have dual Garmin GPS+Comms and you have an electrical failure, there isn't a way (that I know of) to keep the GPS and power hungry display from drawing a lot more current than an old Comm only radio, to conserve power.

Keeping an older less power hungry Comm might be in one's best interests. Or at least worth a thought or two in panel upgrades.

In the G1000, this contingency was planned for with a secondary battery and electrical system, since it also displays primary flight instruments.

It's a minor detail, but an interesting one.
 
denverpilot said:
In the G1000, this contingency was planned for with a secondary battery and electrical system, since it also displays primary flight instruments.

It's a minor detail, but an interesting one.
Click to expand...

Garmin's very first panel mount, the GPS 150, had battery backup as an option.
 
James331 said:
Well done, honestly flying without electrical in most planes is really a non event, going to a uncontrolled field even more so.

So what was the diagnosis?
Click to expand...

Not sure yet. The A&P is heading out there later today, hoping it's just a loose belt or connection.


murphey said:
So you continued the flight after problems during takeoff, then passed up 2 closer airports because some procedure dealing with the electrical system worked in another airplane some time ago?
Click to expand...

Yes... In fact the reason I posted this wasn't because I like to write stories on the internet. It was to illustrate my situation, my thought process and how that issue 'some time ago' helped me in not having the kneejerk reaction you seem to be suggesting. I prefer to remain calm and collected and not try to troubleshoot issues on a climb, especially if it would of been a non-factor. During take-off and climbing as a new pilot isn't the time to be pushing buttons, messing with electrical and trying to do a 180.

The decision not to stop at either of the two other airports is easy. I was at 6500 feet when I realized it was indeed an electrical issue that I wasn't going to resolve while flying. So if I wanted to take a hard left and drop 4500 feet I'm still looking at 10+ mins before I could land. I know there's some hotshot pilots that could do that in 3 mins but that's a bit out of my comfort level. The reasoning behind not landing at the 2nd airport was equally as easy. It's 5 miles off course and had a lot of training traffic shooting approaches. Having no comms there would be a bit more risky than at my home field.

Really the most uneasy part for me of the whole thing was that 10 mins or so I went dark and didn't have my transponder going. I also didn't think about not being able to get the flaps back up if I would of had to do a go around. Even if they would of gone back up, chances are it would of killed the battery and I wouldn't of gotten them back down.
 
Brad Z said:
Just a note for next time...might want to reconsider flaps in that situation. If you had needed to go around, you may not have been able to retract the flaps. Thanks to sharing.
Click to expand...


Good point
 
The verdict is in. It needs a new over-voltage relay. Found this little write up about them;

To prevent costly overvoltage system meltdowns, an overvoltage relay (OVR) guards against runaway voltage outputs. Cessna started installing alternators in the mid-1960s, and OVRs in its single-engine line around 1970. Fortunately for owners of airplanes that came out of the factory without overvoltage protection, virtually all of today's retrofit VRs have overvoltage protection incorporated inside the units. VRs featuring built-in overvoltage protection are alternator control units (ACU). The OVR works like this — whenever system voltage goes above 16 volts (for 12-volt systems) or 32 volts (for 24-volt systems), the circuit between the bus and the ACU is automatically opened by the OVR. This cuts off the excitation current and the alternator output drops to zero. Since transient, intermittent high-voltage spikes occasionally fool the VR or ACU into thinking the system is in meltdown, a pilot should attempt to reset the system by temporarily turning off the alternator switch and then turning it back on. If the system won't reset after one or two attempts, then the pilot must shed electrical load and evaluate his options.
 
murphey said:
So you contimued the flight after problems during takeoff, then passed up 2 closer airports because some procedure dealing with the electrical system worked in another airplane some time ago?
Click to expand...

Sure, why not? You don't need the electrical system to complete the flight.
 
Flight bag items: Flashlight(s), handheld transceiver, portable GPS with spare battery.
That and a good pre-flight will get you through most anything.
 
denverpilot said:
Highlights an interesting side effect of a decision some may not realize they've made during retrofits.

If you have dual Garmin GPS+Comms and you have an electrical failure, there isn't a way (that I know of) to keep the GPS and power hungry display from drawing a lot more current than an old Comm only radio, to conserve power.

Keeping an older less power hungry Comm might be in one's best interests. Or at least worth a thought or two in panel upgrades.

In the G1000, this contingency was planned for with a secondary battery and electrical system, since it also displays primary flight instruments.

It's a minor detail, but an interesting one.
Click to expand...

I kept one of my Kx-155s for this reason. If I would do a new panel with a 750 I would likely put in an SL-30 as #2.
 
Henning said:
I kept one of my Kx-155s for this reason. If I would do a new panel with a 750 I would likely put in an SL-30 as #2.
Click to expand...

Except the SL-30 has been discontinued...plenty available used I suppose...
 
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