TFRs still on charts

AdamZ

AdamZ

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Adam Zucker
Can anyone tell me why the Chenney TFR is still up?

Look at the little red dot just WSW or KESN on AOPA flight planner
 
This was a big concern to me....since Bush gets 10 years of SS protection, does that also mean a TFR for Bush/Cheney for 10 years?

Spike and I discussed that....with an upcoming move to Dallas..... YIKES.
 
Cheney still gets USSS protection, and will be staying in the DC area, including keeping his house by St Mike's, and USSS still wants to keep the gawkers away (I think his new regular house is inside the FRZ). The TFR doesn't do much anyway other than raise the minimum altitude over the area from the usual 91.119(b) 1000 above the highest obstruction in a congested area (St Mike's is "congested" as the FAA defines it) to 1500 MSL in a 1nm radius nowhere near any public airports -- it's a real nonissue.

As for Bush, I don't think it really matters -- I think his place in Dallas is inside the Class B surface area anyway. I expect they'll treat it kinda like the Disney TFR's -- if you're complying with 91.131, you're OK through that space, and you have to stay 1000 above the highest obstruction anyway.
 
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Don't remember if it was here or elsewhere, but someone quoted AOPA saying the Cheney TFR would go away after the inauguration, as no other former VPs have TFRs. There isn't one for Clinton either, to my knowledge, but that may be because of his location in the NY class B.

Cheney supposedly gets six months of USSS protection, then the Secretary of the DHS may direct the Secret Service to provide temporary protection to former Vice Presidents and their family members at any time thereafter if warranted.
 
The Cheney TFR is still there. Two senior USSS PPD managers with whom I had lunch at Easton last fall (they'd flown their 172 in) said don't expect it to go away after the changeover -- Cheney has too many enemies.
 
Ron Levy said:
The Cheney TFR is still there. Two senior USSS PPD managers with whom I had lunch at Easton last fall (they'd flown their 172 in) said don't expect it to go away after the changeover -- Cheney has too many enemies.
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So having enemies is now the criteria for having a TFR?:mad3:
 
Ron Levy said:
Being a protected person and having enemies has been the criteria, and remains so.[/quote

Yeah but at a point it becomes elitist. Its just wrong but thats my opinion and that won't get ya anywhere.

Greebo has enemies and he is protected and he ain't gonna have a TFR when he departs the MC,:rolleyes:
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AdamZ said:
Yeah but at a point it becomes elitist. Its just wrong but thats my opinion and that won't get ya anywhere.
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If you don't like it, write your Congressional reps.
Greebo has enemies and he is protected and he ain't gonna have a TFR when he departs the MC,:rolleyes:
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Greebo is not a "protected person" under the laws regarding who gets USSS protection. But if he keeps stirring up trouble here, he might wish he was.
 
The doors to the Kingdom of Mordor will eventually close <g>. They move slowly.

Best,

Dave
 
I'm just wondering how soon they'll put up the TFR over Bidens house North of Wilmington.
 
Think it will be one like Cheney's at KESN? Since Biden's Home is more permanent as compared to Cheney's summer home, think it will be the same size or bigger?

I almost forgot about that possibly coming up,... better keep a look out for it being posted and then transfer to my charts.
 
that's just it. Cheney's TFR raised the bar. Hey, if he got it, why not Biden. In fact, Cheney's was only to 1500 ft - we should raise that. Before we know it every dumba$$ congresscheat will get a TFR. OK, sorry, that was SZish - I sometimes forget when I'm in polite company. Fact remains though, that these things grow like antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Think it will be one like Cheney's at KESN? Since Biden's Home is more permanent as compared to Cheney's summer home, think it will be the same size or bigger?

I almost forgot about that possibly coming up,... better keep a look out for it being posted and then transfer to my charts.
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I'm assuming (hoping) it will be like Cheney's, but who know's maybe it will cover the whole Amtrack line from Wilmington to Washington like the one last week since Biden likes to take the train :yikes:
 
Cheney's TFR is gone this morning! (But don't be surprised if it comes back, I don't know if the FAA removed and the USSS hasn't caught on yet).


Also note that Obama's executive order putting a hold on all pending rulemaking means the ADIZ may not become permanent as scheduled. From AOPA:

Within minutes of being sworn in, the Obama Administration put a hold on all new and pending regulations—a move that could affect implementation of a rule making the Washington, D.C., Air Defense Identification Zone permanent.

Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s White House chief of staff, on Jan. 20 issued a memo to the heads of executive departments and agencies asking them to stop moving forward with all regulations that have not yet been published or taken effect until they can be reviewed by the new administration. In some cases, agencies have been asked to reopen the comment period.

If the FAA determines a review is warranted, that could affect the plan to make the Washington, D.Z., ADIZ into a permanent special flight rules area, which is scheduled to take effect on Feb. 17.

“AOPA has pledged to do all we can to stop the ADIZ from becoming permanent, and we encourage the new administration to seriously consider changes to the rule to reduce its impact on general aviation,” said Andy Cebula, AOPA executive vice president of government affairs. “The Transportation Security Administration’s Large Aircraft Security Program rules are not likely to be covered by the memo, but we hope the many concerns expressed in recent weeks will result in close scrutiny of that plan before it moves forward, as well.
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TMetzinger said:
Cheney's TFR is gone this morning!
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By gum, it is!
( I don't know if the FAA removed and the USSS hasn't caught on yet).
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Highly unlikely.
Also note that Obama's executive order putting a hold on all pending rulemaking means the ADIZ may not become permanent as scheduled.
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Since that rule has already been published as a Final Rule, I'd be surprised if they can stop it. But I was surprised they dumped Cheney's TFR, too, not that it makes much difference.
 
Just spoke with the Airport Manager at Easton, and he was surprised to hear the Cheney TFR off the list. He said the USSS told him Sunday that it would be around at least until July. I'm not planning to fly over that place at less than 1500 MSL until I hear more -- doveryai no proveryai, and all that, and those cats got Stingers.
 
Ron Levy said:
By gum, it is!
Highly unlikely.
Since that rule has already been published as a Final Rule, I'd be surprised if they can stop it. But I was surprised they dumped Cheney's TFR, too, not that it makes much difference.
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I wasn't clear... Obama's order stops all pending rulemaking AND implementation of recent rule changes until the agencies conduct a check to see if further review is warranted.

I expect the LASP process will continue, but perhaps final rule will be much different or delayed now that new folks will be in charge.

I read today in the post that Obama nullified every legal opinion on interrorgations issued by DOJ after 9/11/01. Here's hoping that similar reviews and rollbacks on other fear-based policies will be forthcoming.
 
TMetzinger said:
I wasn't clear... Obama's order stops all pending rulemaking AND implementation of recent rule changes until the agencies conduct a check to see if further review is warranted.
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I don't think he can do that without Congressional action or going back through the rulemaking process once the rule is published as final. Constitutional lawyers, please chime in.
 
Nav8tor said:
Well that didn't take long. http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_9_2729.html
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No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this NOTAM (except as described). Unless otherwise authorized by ATC.
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I can live with that. You can't go below about 1100 MSL in that area, anyway, due to 91.119(b), so all you lose is 1100-1500 MSL in a 1.5nm radius in an area you should (I know -- not must) be talking to Tower or Approach anyway.
Nav8tor said:
But surprisingly it ends on Monday. Maybe it takes awhile to make it permanent (it's not like they've known since November).
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Or maybe they'll only activate it when he's up there rather than in DC, kinda like the expanded P-40. That would be a nice change from the Cheney TFR, which was always hot.
 
And it will probably be active from Friday nights through Monday mornings. Rumor had it Joe wanted to keep riding the train to go home on weekends... Not sure how that would work unless he told the USSS guys to grow a pair, give him the standard detail, and deal with it.

Note: I sympathize with the job of the USSS. Their job is practically impossible, but goodness knows the protectees know what they're signing up for as far as risk goes. But over the years the USSS has lost all sense of reasonableness and balance, and it's time that they get it back, and that everyone be reasonable when the next bad thing happens (which it will, sooner or later).
 
TMetzinger said:
Note: I sympathize with the job of the USSS. Their job is practically impossible, but goodness knows the protectees know what they're signing up for as far as risk goes. But over the years the USSS has lost all sense of reasonableness and balance,
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That died on Nov 22, 1963. They just ain't gonna let the protectee roll back the protection again without written orders and a disclaimer, and folks don't get to be President putting stuff like that in writing.
 
TMetzinger said:
No, but they can roll it back to 2000 levels.
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Pretend I'm Chief of the Presidential Protection Detail, and tell me how that will improve my job performance rating, and how it will not degrade it. Remember, I'm judged on one, and only one, criterion -- did anything happen to my protectees on my watch?
 
You're the chief - you're practically eligible for retirement, and you don't really have anywhere to go but out anyway.

You shouldn't be judged on that one criterion (which was my point anyway). If you were REALLY judged on that criterion and weren't forced to strike a balance, you'd never let the guy leave the White House (or better yet, you'd move his butt to Cheyenne Mountain or a similar facility). The reality is that you DO have to strike a balance, because the president has to go out and shake hands and meet people. There's no reason that you couldn't do as good a job as your predecessors and not need the ADIZ/FRZ, or a 30 NM TFR every where you go. You did without those for decades, and even on 9/11 they didn't throw airliners at your protectee (PS if they had your TFR would have meant diddly and squat). So in the meantime you've spent millions of dollars of taxpayer money on the marginal chance of improving your performance appraisal?

You, Mr Chief, have a sucky job. . Don't spend TONS of money and inconvenience THOUSANDS of people to try and make it barely less sucky. Deal with it, or go find a better one.
 
Looks like Biden has a TFR this weekend, Surface to 1500, 5 miles north of Wilmington....
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Looks like Biden has a TFR this weekend, Surface to 1500, 5 miles north of Wilmington....
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Expect to see it every weekend. The good news is that it really doesn't make much difference, seeing it's only 1.5 nm radius, it only adds about 400 feet to the lowest altitude you can fly through there, and you can go through it if you're talking to ATC.
 
TMetzinger said:
Obama's executive order putting a hold on all pending rulemaking
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This can only apply to rules that have not been published in the Federal Register yet, or were published less than 30 days before the effective date of Obama's order. Once 30 days have passed since publication in the Federal Register, a rule is finalized and thus no longer pending.
 
Ron Levy said:
Expect to see it every weekend. The good news is that it really doesn't make much difference, seeing it's only 1.5 nm radius, it only adds about 400 feet to the lowest altitude you can fly through there, and you can go through it if you're talking to ATC.
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I was coming home from KRDG (Reading, Pa) yesterday at 2,500 and philly asked if i was aware of the tfr. Of course I was and replied affirmative have tfr info. I was still routed south so as not to "clip" the tfr. I was irked that approach made mention of not clipping the tfr. I did follow the vectors and once clear was ready to cancel flight following when philly gave me my posiotion to the tfr, the destination airport positon and switch to tower info. Once again he let me know where I was and I responded I was clear at 2,500 for the TFR 1,500 agl ceiling, had wilmington in sight, contact tower at two six point 0, thanks.

Some of us do read and understand where to be and not to be....:rolleyes:
 
I hope you called them and asked why they routed you around it when you were 1000 feet above it. I suspect it will be a while before Philly Approach gets comfortable with this new (to them) TFR business -- it took quite a while for Potomac Approach (actually, the various predecessor TRACONs) to get its (their) arms around all the ADIZ stuff.
 
GMascelli said:
Some of us do read and understand where to be and not to be....:rolleyes:
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True, but I'm glad ATC seems to be more vigilant of TFR's and other NOTAM's these days, because the opposite type of pilot is the kind that gets in the news and that's bad for all of us.

I've noticed that ATC has been reading NOTAM's for uncontrolled fields the last few months. Dunno if that was a directive from above or what. :dunno:
 
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