Texas set to pass open carry ..

Carry em but keep em concealed.
This is going to cause more drama than anything else.

Businesses vs Open Carriers
Open Carrier vs other open carriers and their **** measuring contests
Not to mention the idiot open carriers that will take it to extremes

No good will come from this.
 
Addendum:
Honestly if you truly carried for your own protection, wouldn't concealing it be the smartest move?

If I want to protect myself from a random lunatic, best not to make myself the first target.

I can't think of an advantage this gives anyone carrying for their personal protection.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Addendum:
Honestly if you truly carried for your own protection, wouldn't concealing it be the smartest move?

If I want to protect myself from a random lunatic, best not to make myself the first target.

I can't think of an advantage this gives anyone carrying for their personal protection.
Click to expand...

Random lunatics are tough to protect yourself from, but i don't believe all criminals are lunatics, and most criminals would probably select easier targets than somebody carrying a gun.
 
Bryan if you were a lunatic (criminal) looking for a mark, would you go after an un-armed person or one with a big hog on his/her side?

I see some reverse logic from your point.
 
txflyer said:
Bryan if you were a lunatic (criminal) looking for a mark, would you go after an un-armed person or one with a big hog on his/her side?

I see some reverse logic from your point.
Click to expand...


If I am going to shoot up a school, I am taking out the security guard first.

Guess why.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Addendum:
Honestly if you truly carried for your own protection, wouldn't concealing it be the smartest move?

If I want to protect myself from a random lunatic, best not to make myself the first target.

I can't think of an advantage this gives anyone carrying for their personal protection.
Click to expand...

Yep. The element of surprise is best, and.....

txflyer said:
Bryan if you were a lunatic (criminal) looking for a mark, would you go after an un-armed person or one with a big hog on his/her side?

I see some reverse logic from your point.
Click to expand...

I can see many going after the guy with the gun - the criminal would rather find a way to disarm someone who can hurt them.... much better to have one more element (surprise) in your corner.

Let's try it another way: would you rather deal with a criminal that shows the gun and lets you know where it is, or a criminal that keeps it concealed and pulls it to surprise you?

YMMV, though, and others may have a differing opinion.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If I am going to shoot up a school, I am taking out the security guard first.

Guess why.
Click to expand...

There is a difference in the scenario you describe and 99.9999999999999% of other crimes.

I am not a huge fan of open carry but there are lots of reasons and times when it is a good idea.

The other benefit is if you accidentally print or show it is a non-issue. In some states if someone just sees your concealed carry it can be a problem.
 
DFH65 said:
There is a difference in the scenario you describe and 99.9999999999999% of other crimes.
Click to expand...

This can be extrapolated to a lot of things. I don't know what gun owners are trying to protect themselves from. ONLY thing I can see open carry helping is walking up to the ATM alone at night and a criminal going "UM that may not be the best guy to rob" and similar situations.

Realistically this is going to turn into a show thing in public places and nothing more. It will be all over the news when people start trying to go to orphanages dressed like Rambo so they can scream about their rights when they are asked to leave (Extreme exaggeration there)

DFH65 said:
The other benefit is if you accidentally print or show it is a non-issue. In some states if someone just sees your concealed carry it can be a problem.
Click to expand...

Out of my realm of expertise so I can't make an educated comment there.
My preference is that your guns are not visible. I already assume everyone around me is carrying but once they are out, the scared folks are going to make a scene and the carriers are going to up their exposed arsenal and each side will get louder and louder and we have more "Gay bakery versus gay people" type news only now with guns. Everything is designed to pit us against each other nowadays.
 
I am a huge fan of the 2nd amendment and concealed carry. Not as big a fan of open carry. I think in the end, both sides will skew statistics to their cause with the truth being it doesn't make any difference really.
 
I like it for one reason, I don't have to be paranoid that my weapon is perfectly concealed at all times. People have been cited carrying concealed because they inadvertently opened a jacket or their shirt tail bunched up and revealed they were armed. I'll still carry concealed.
 
Witmo said:
I like it for one reason, I don't have to be paranoid that my weapon is perfectly concealed at all times. People have been cited carrying concealed because they inadvertently opened a jacket or their shirt tail bunched up and revealed they were armed. I'll still carry concealed.
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Yeah, that's pretty stupid.
I didn't realize if you stretch or something and expose it, you can get dinged for it.
That is petty.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If I am going to shoot up a school, I am taking out the security guard first.

Guess why.
Click to expand...
either way.....they'd still have to shoot you first.
So, to repeat the worst sounding woman in the world...."What difference does it make?...." :rolleyes:

I find comfort, maybe false comfort, but comfort, in "seeing" open carry.

btw....I've never met a law abiding criminal yet......:mad2::goofy:
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Carry em but keep em concealed.
This is going to cause more drama than anything else.

Businesses vs Open Carriers
Open Carrier vs other open carriers and their **** measuring contests
Not to mention the idiot open carriers that will take it to extremes

No good will come from this.
Click to expand...

I have to agree. I see nothing but trouble with open carry legislation. The level of paranoia in parts of the country is astounding. Concealed carry is the perfect balance. Texas will regret this experiment if they make it law. More head aches than anything else.
 
From an un-armed criminal's perspective, I see it the same as you're looking at two guys and one has a big-ass knife in a scabbord on his side and one doesn't. From an armed criminals perspective, if you see two guys and one is carrying blue steel and one isn't, .... Which one are you going to try to take on for your crack money?

Power percieved is power achieved.

I can't see crime rates going anywhere but South if this passes.
 
No matter what your gun laws end up becoming, just remember they will always be better than California's.

:goofy:

Verbal warning, warning shot, fear for your life, can't shoot them in the back, can't shoot them once they leave your house, can't hang a sign saying "trespassers will be shot again" in the window because according to at least one cop who visited my dad's house because we were practicing up there with shotguns etc, "that's pre-meditation". On private property way up a hill adjacent to no one.
 
txflyer said:
From an un-armed criminal's perspective, I see it the same as you're looking at two guys and one has a big-ass knife in a scabbord on his side and one doesn't. From an armed criminals perspective, if you see two guys and one is carrying blue steel and one isn't, .... Which one are you going to try to take on for your crack money?

Power percieved is power achieved.

I can't see crime rates going anywhere but South if this passes.
Click to expand...


In both scenarios, the concealed weapon guy has the highest likely-hood of survivability and as such ability to protect us left leaning wussies ;)

We can only assume "one doesn't" and "one isn't" from the criminal's perspective. If both are concealed...


1. Unarmed goes after the easy target (Guy w/o knife). Maybe he kills that guy maybe that guy has a gun and kills criminal. Either criminal is dead or alive and now has to deal with knife guy as well.

2. Armed criminal goes after "Blue steel". Maybe blue steel is quicker and kills criminal or maybe blue steel gets killed. Criminal is dead or alive and now has to deal with concealed carry guy
 
Does a padlock keep a criminal from stealing you blind? Nope but it does give people enough of a deterrent to leave your stuff alone. I have a feeling that things won't change very much but now people have their rights better defined. I have carried openly and concealed based in the situation, my activities and style of dress.

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let's remember....laws are made for the law abiding....not the criminals. :yes:

I do agree that a more liberal CC law is best....but, I'll also take open carry if that's not available.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
In both scenarios, the concealed weapon guy has the highest likely-hood of survivability and as such ability to protect us left leaning wussies ;)

We can only assume "one doesn't" and "one isn't" from the criminal's perspective. If both are concealed...


1. Unarmed goes after the easy target (Guy w/o knife). Maybe he kills that guy maybe that guy has a gun and kills criminal. Either criminal is dead or alive and now has to deal with knife guy as well.

2. Armed criminal goes after "Blue steel". Maybe blue steel is quicker and kills criminal or maybe blue steel gets killed. Criminal is dead or alive and now has to deal with concealed carry guy
Click to expand...



Most criminals by and large aren't very smart. They will go after the weaker looking prey just like animals in nature do. They look for opportunities.

If they see a weapon, and know for a fact there is a high probability they may get blasted ... it's a deterrent. They would have to get the drop on the person and overwhelm them.

Just like a burglar system on your home, it is not a 100% deterrent from getting robbed, it just makes it harder. Criminals don't like harder. They'll move on to a softer target. :yesnod:
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
let's remember....laws are made for the law abiding....not the criminals. :yes:

I do agree that a more liberal CC law is best....but, I'll also take open carry if that's not available.
Click to expand...

It'd be nice if poorly conceived (read: stupid!) laws didn't make otherwise law-abiding citizens into criminals.

And I agree, Texas's CC law is nit-picky. Alaska and Vermont got it right.
 
Does there generally have to be a law "allowing" open carry?

I mean, as long as there is no law specifically against it, you should be good to go regardless*. And for that, one would to check each state for the specific wording of laws regarding open carry - if there even are any.

In FL, outside of city limits and/or on their own property, open carry was not a big deal when I worked there. I don't recall any FL statute prohibiting it, though there may be now.


*I've heard of open carry being thought to be prohibited under general "Reckless Display" laws, but it would be tough making the case that a properly holstered handgun is in and of itself "reckless",
 
In Texas currently open carry of a handgun off your property or common sense at the range or to and from a vehicle is unlawful, arrest is possible unless your a certified police office. This has been the law since right after the Civil War where Carpet Bagger government wanted to remove the threat of returning southern soldiers and recently freed Negros...been on the books like that since then...long guns can be open carried anywhere.
 
Looks like open carry does violate FL law:

790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
(1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
(2) A person may openly carry, for purposes of lawful self-defense:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(3) Any person violating this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
History.—s. 1, ch. 87-537; s. 173, ch. 91-224; s. 3, ch. 97-72; s. 1205, ch. 97-102; s. 3, ch. 2006-298; s. 1, ch. 2011-145.


It may have such in the 1980's and I'm just misremembering.
 
Open carry or conceal it.

My experience. About 6 years ago I went to a local restaurant that has a decent dinner buffet. As I parked, a cargo van, the type with no side windows except for the front and rear door, pulled up to the door. 4 people dressed as muslim women got out, full covering head to toes. A male handed each person a backpack and a cell phone.

I felt a little uncomfortable so I grabbed my pistol and attached it to my belt. The 4 persons went in and got in line. I walked in about 6 feet behind them and crossed my arms to make sure my pistol would be seen.

The last person in line turned to look at me, then turned and started talking excitedly in what I thought might be arabic. The others turned and looked at me, then after a brief and quiet discussion, they all left. One of the persons was talking on their cell phone. A car, not the van, with a different driver picked up the people.

I am fairly certain that one of the people was male, hard to tell because of the full length costume.

I called a friend of mine that works with the FBI and told him what I saw. The next day I got a visit from a couple of people that identified themselves as FBI agents. We talked about what happened and what I saw.

Later on I found out that one of the new terriost threats would be to poison public foods such as buffets. My friend in the FBI could not go into detail but we agreed that I probably interupted a rehearsal.

A few days later I talked to the manager of the restaurant. His parents are from Pakistan, he was born in the US and goes to the same church I go to. He told me he did not like what he was seeing and had a bad feeling about the people in question. He thought that they were probably all males in costume.

NM has an open carry. There isn't really much problem, and I really don't see very many people openly carrying, possibly 2 or 3 a year.

The only gun problems are from people that don't obey laws anyway.
 
Ok, so I'm FOR the open carry laws here in Texas, although I think the Texas Penal Code is in clear violation of the Texas Constitution and it should already be legal. Anyway, I've OC'd before without issues in New Mexico and I've OC'd a legal (pre-1899 and / or Black Powder replica) pistol here in Texas. It's not a big deal and not a problem if you aren't trying to annoy people.
 
While I would rarely choose to open carry in public unless it was a direct result of whatever other activity I was involved in (or maybe a time or two just because I'll finallyy be able to), I would like to have the option at least.
 
All but six states allow open carry. There's a fair amount of data available, mostly FBI stats, but there does not seem to be a direct correlation between open carry and mayhem. Most people don't carry firearms, and it seems that most who do, carry concealed. With few exceptions, these folks pass periodic background checks. The instances of shootings by licensed concealed carriers (other than those ruled justifiable self-defense) are vanishingly few. I don't think the open carry status matters much as a practical matter, apart from the printing issue. It is counterintuitive that Texas would be among the ranks of NY and California in banning OC. (And then there were five...) Same might be said of Florida, which some residents call the Gunshine State.
 
Why is it that only the government should be allowed to open carry? Doesn't that threat properly discourage many criminals? If not, then why do cops carry their weapons in plain sight?

I am not a fan of ANY gun laws, as all they do is empower the government, and criminals.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Carry em but keep em concealed.
This is going to cause more drama than anything else.

Businesses vs Open Carriers
Open Carrier vs other open carriers and their **** measuring contests
Not to mention the idiot open carriers that will take it to extremes

No good will come from this.
Click to expand...


I am a Texan with my concealed permit, and am constantly concerned about my piece printing. So not having to worry about someone seeing a hint of a shadow would be nice. Though if anyone does ask me about it, I will simply say that it is my colostomy bag and give them a disgusted stare. :eek:

However, if just a few of us start openly carrying, the anti-gun nuts are going to go crazy. Many more businesses are going to be pressured to put up 30.06 signs. The end result will be that responsible licensed carry guys will be even more restricted, not less so.
 
DrPappy said:
However, if just a few of us start openly carrying, the anti-gun nuts are going to go crazy. Many more businesses are going to be pressured to put up 30.06 signs. The end result will be that responsible licensed carry guys will be even more restricted, not less so.
Click to expand...
It's not happening and I'm not worried about it. I haven't seen many signs going up over the last two years that the open carry movement has been active here in Texas.
 
One of the advantages of our Constitution (especially the Tenth Amendment) is that individual states can pass laws like this and other states can check in a few years to see if there is an advantage or disadvantage to the laws. If these laws prove effective, then other states can follow suit. If not, then other states can try something different.
 
Dennis McKim said:
One of the advantages of our Constitution (especially the Tenth Amendment) is that individual states can pass laws like this and other states can check in a few years to see if there is an advantage or disadvantage to the laws. If these laws prove effective, then other states can follow suit. If not, then other states can try something different.
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This is very true. It has certainly benefited the adoption of CC laws through out the country.
 
This might be a stupid question but....

People hunt on public land, obviously carrying loaded firearms. What is the legal distinction between this and open carry which obviously is about carrying in restaurants, malls, etc?

I had always understood open carry to simply be the absence of any particular laws against it rather than specific provisions allowing it. IIRC, that's why it started happening and people started talking about it a few years back- pro gun folks noted lack of laws banning it in several states and started openly carrying.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Random lunatics are tough to protect yourself from, but i don't believe all criminals are lunatics, and most criminals would probably select easier targets than somebody carrying a gun.
Click to expand...

That

Kinda obvious IMO.

I'd still go concealed, as in our, now very backwards, society if you're not collecting a government paycheck and own and carry a firearm you're considered a tin foil hat wearing terrorist.
 
Florida Cracker said:
Why is it that only the government should be allowed to open carry? Doesn't that threat properly discourage many criminals? If not, then why do cops carry their weapons in plain sight?

I am not a fan of ANY gun laws, as all they do is empower the government, and criminals.
Click to expand...

X1000
 
Open carry makes me a little nervous,believe in concealed carry. The Wild West was born of open carry. For true personal protection ,I want concealed carry . Gives you an honest chance when conflict happens. With open carry your going to be the first target.
 
frfly172 said:
Open carry makes me a little nervous,believe in concealed carry. The Wild West was born of open carry. For true personal protection ,I want concealed carry . Gives you an honest chance when conflict happens. With open carry your going to be the first target.
Click to expand...

What makes you nervous about open carry vs concealed?

To me the difference is with open carry everyone knows you've got a gun so criminals are going to be less likely to try something... but if they're bold to try anyway you're the first target.

With concealed the criminals won't suspect you're armed and may try something but you've got the better chance to get the drop on them.
 
I've seen people open carry in Ohio quite a few times. Everyday people at that, not a protest. And ya know what. Nobody looked at them twice. I'm all for it!


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