Tesla Model 3 - Finally.

[flyingcheesehead]

I drive maybe half that, even less with WFH due to COVID. I have a 2016 that just turned 36,000 miles; I bought it a year old with ~4,200 miles on it.

I didn't get a ticket, but when I first bought the BMW 328i Coupe I had several years ago I had a similar acceleration experience. I'd moved up from an econocar. I accelerated and looked down and saw the needle quickly moving past 90 mph. 90?! And quickly backed off the accelerator. Sheesh that car would accelerate.

Once nice preference you can set on the Teslas is for it to chime as you're blowing through the speed limit.

I am thinking of getting an EV for my next car. Right now I'm stilling enjoying my Mustang convertible with a manual transmission too much.

Y'know, I went straight from a stick shift to electric... But I still drive it like a stick, switching between N, D, and L to get the amount of regen I want at any given time.

That's one of the things I'm a bit apprehensive with about the Tesla. The shifter is up on a stalk, not right at hand when you've got your right arm on the armrest like all of my electrified vehicles except the i3 have been. The Bolt even added the additional regen paddle which was kinda fun and video game-ish. I guess we'll see what it's like.

We tend to fly if we need to go very far though; private or commercial. So the impractical part of the Mustang is not too big of a deal. Flying means that super long range in an EV isn't that big of a deal either.

Bingo. If it's over 100 miles away from home, I'm almost certainly taking the plane. I've literally not driven more than 250 miles from home in the last decade.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Kia Niro EV.

That's one that was near the top of my list in this process. I saw one in the wild for the first time in Oregon a few weeks ago when I was out there visiting my brother. I like the look, and it didn't have the problematic LG pouch cells.

I took a brief drive in a friend's new M3. I think I could get used to the goofiness of the accelerator pedal wanting to also be a brake pedal, but having to turn my head away from the road in order to read the central display panel is a complete disqualifier. Many cars have central displays but to my knowledge all of them also have critical information, like speed, directly in front of the driver.

When I rented a Model 3, I honestly didn't even notice it. I didn't have to turn my head at all, nor do I tilt my head down when looking into the dash on other cars. It's a glance, it's just in a slightly different direction. It wasn't any harder than switching between a yoke and a stick in an airplane, which, at least for me, feels perfectly natural either way.

Are there any electric cars that don't suck that don't use liquid cooled/ heated batteries? The leaf is the only one I know of that's an actual car, not a "neighborhood vehicle", and last I heard the battery life is lousy. When I first heard of a liquid cooled battery, I thought it sounded like a terrible idea, but it certainly appears to to a necessity with the current chemistry. I was really concerned about buying the first Pacifica, thinking the battery would degrade rapidly after a couple years like a phone, but it held up quite well, and from what I read the older volts and teslas have surprisingly little loss in range.

I wouldn't recommend air-cooled batteries, at least on a fully electric vehicle. Heat is one of the top killers of Lithium batteries, and Nissan's air-cooled system on the Leaf is one of the worst as far as degradation. They've had to replace a ton of batteries under warranty, and they're the only manufacturer where I've heard of that being a widespread problem.

On a PHEV it's more okay to air-cool if it's otherwise got a good battery management system, as there isn't the same level of power that you get from a purely electric vehicle, and thus there isn't as much heat to dissipate/spread.

Older Volts and Teslas have surprisingly little loss in range because they both use liquid-cooled batteries.

 

[A Martin]

.

There is a certified autogyro instructor in California ... in his younger years he raced motorcycles professionally and set speed records at Bonneville ... loves to drive and owns cars such as BMW Roadster ..... most summers he drives to the East Coast to air shows and aviation museums.

Guess what he drives on his cross country trips .... ???

He rents a Prius ... says he likes it ... gets about 51 mpg ... says it is the most economical way to travel.

.

 

[Stingray Don]

Electric cars have coolant. All that I'm aware of have transmissions and differentials.

Teslas do not have transmissions or drive shafts. Some are AWD but do not have a transfer case. They do have differentials but they are driven directly by the motor(s). Teslas do have battery coolant but I’ve never heard of one needing service (except for physical damage) unlike an ICE car that needs radiator a flush and fill.

Modern cars can go much further between oil changes but most manufacturers still recommend changing oil every six months to one year regardless of mileage.

brake pads should last the life of the car as the majority of braking is done with regen rather than friction brakes.

The big convenience for me is avoiding weekly trips to the gas station. I always seem to need to fill up when I was running late. Now I start off each day with nearly a full charge.

I will never own another ICE car as a daily driver.

 

[Ted]

In town, the EV is more satisfying to drive than is a car with a conventional drivetrain, because the accelerator pedal response is so good. Out on the highway the hybrid drives very similarly to a conventional automatic equipped car.

Accelerator pedal response on a gasoline car these days has as much to do with programming as it does with physical limitations. As to "more satisfying", I think that has to do with what you look for. Anything where I can't hear the engine (and have that be a good sound) is automatically less interseting.

My experience with my previous car is that for the first 8 or 9 years and 80,000-100,000, the engine doesn't require much more than regular oil changes and a few air filters. After that, things aren't so trouble free. That car needed a valve cover gasket, a fuel pump, and alternator, and coil packs, all between 90,000 and 125,000 miles. At 118,000, I did a timing belt change, which wasn't too expensive but did take me all day. One thing I noticed driving the Fusion is that even when you're driving in hybrid mode, the engine compartment stays much cooler than a conventional car's would. Towards the end of the 12 years I had my previous car, the air conditioning started getting weak. I had it serviced, but the tech suggested that the A/C hoses had started becoming porous, and that was about as well as that car was going to cool unless I wanted to replace all the hoses, which would be a couple of thousand dollars. I suspect all the rubber and plastic on the Fusion will hold up much better due to the lower underhood temperature.

Right, as you hit that 100k mark things start to break and require more maintenance. I don't think that's news, and I don't think hybrids/electrics are immune from that. Maybe less susceptible as you do have fewer moving parts, but they're still devices that can break.

 

[wayne]

In town, the EV is more satisfying to drive than is a car with a conventional drivetrain, because the accelerator pedal response is so good. Out on the highway the hybrid drives very similarly to a conventional automatic equipped car.

"Conventional drivetrain"? Do you mean "sissy stick" (i.e. automatic transmission)?

Most people say they would hate to drive a car with a manual transmission in heavy traffic. They hate having to shift and use the clutch that much. I actually prefer it as long as the traffic is moving for the same reason you like the EV. I can accelerate so much more crisply. I can see a hole in the traffic, down shift, and then punch it when my car aligns with the hole. Yeah, the EV driver doesn't have to shift, but after 40 years of driving cars with manual transmissions it's just a natural process for me.

 

[wayne]

Once nice preference you can set on the Teslas is for it to chime as you're blowing through the speed limit.

That would be going off all the time in Atlanta.

 

[danhagan]

Driving electric is like buying gas for 80 cents per gallon.

The government has a "cure" for that 80 cent a gallon comment coming soon in the way of vehicle mileage tax ...

 

[weilke]

Right, as you hit that 100k mark things start to break and require more maintenance. I don't think that's news, and I don't think hybrids/electrics are immune from that. Maybe less susceptible as you do have fewer moving parts, but they're still devices that can break.

I drive cars until they get somewhere around 200-230k. I have found that since I have switched to bland japanese midsize fare, repairs are really not a thing. Nothing for the first 100k, then maybe a knock sensor or a TPS that wears out. Things break when you get closer to 200, but 'Jeff the backyard mechanic' can fix those things with parts from a competitive market.

 

[Lachlan]

.

1990's my commute was over 70 miles per day .... my large cars used $400 month in fuel ..... bought a VW diesel and fuel cost went down to $100 per month .... car lasted for over 300,000 miles ... car cost $17k to buy ... fuel savings over 13 years about $46k ... it was almost like driving for free and car paid for itself several times over.

No lithium batteries were harmed in the production of this post.

.

Yeah, but but but VW diesels are dirty cheatin’ polluters and coal-fired electrical plants power up those zero-carbon electric cars made from all-natural ingredients like lithium-ion batteries that are so good for the recycling stream. Wait- you mean they all suck in some form or another? Ugh. I’m going flying…

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Guess what he drives on his cross country trips .... ???

He rents a Prius ... says he likes it ... gets about 51 mpg ... says it is the most economical way to travel.

I've heard that from a few people that rent cars on Turo. Cars like Teslas get rented for a day or three for someone to try it out and have fun with the performance... But they also had cars like Priuses and said they'll get rented out usually 1-3 weeks at a time for people who want to do a cheap road trip. The daily cost of renting a Tesla kills any savings in fuel since the Prius is pretty cheap at maybe $30/day in gas and $30-$50/day in rental vs the Teslas being more like $129-$199/day.

And the 8-minute zero to 60 doesn't really matter if you only do it a couple of times.

The big convenience for me is avoiding weekly trips to the gas station. I always seem to need to fill up when I was running late. Now I start off each day with nearly a full charge.

This!!! It's amazing how much of a pain in the ass that 5-10 minutes seems like when you're used to not doing it any more.

I will never own another ICE car as a daily driver.

Same.

Accelerator pedal response on a gasoline car these days has as much to do with programming as it does with physical limitations. As to "more satisfying", I think that has to do with what you look for. Anything where I can't hear the engine (and have that be a good sound) is automatically less interseting.

Any car is software... On the Tesla, you can even choose your pedal response. "Chill Mode" nerfs it some because people weren't used to a car responding so fast.

But, I've never met a gas car that doesn't lag just a little. Simple physics - It takes a fraction of a second for the fuel/air mixture to get to the cylinders, be compressed and ignited. The EV response is instantaneous.

Power in an ICE is also proportional to RPM, so when you shove the pedal down, you don't get all the power right away. On EVs the response does vary greatly depending on available power, but the Teslas have enough that the relationship of acceleration to pedal position is very linear. Push the pedal down twice as far, you instantly accelerate twice as fast. It's a hoot.

The government has a "cure" for that 80 cent a gallon comment coming soon in the way of vehicle mileage tax ...

This is certainly an issue, and everyone should be paying their fair share for maintenance of the roads. Gas taxes were easy because heavier vehicles generally got worse mileage but also caused more wear and tear on the roads. EVs pay no gas tax, but do pay much higher fees in many states, to the point that I pay 5 times as much to the state in registration fees than I would be paying in gas taxes if I drove a gasser, and that includes federal gas taxes.

This is a bit of a thorny problem. The feds aren't getting anything from EVs now, the states are. But how do you tax it? You'd either have to have separate electric meters for EVs, or do a mileage tax (which means they'd have to have a reasonably secure/foolproof way of getting your mileage), or do some kind of automated GPS tracker which is going to go over like a lead balloon in the USA, and rightfully so.

Add to that a few other issues with the system unrelated to EVs: One being that the federal gas tax has not increased since 1993 so it is WAY behind inflation and leading to a lack of federal highway funding. In addition, diesel is probably way cheaper than it ought to be. Diesel cars pay less than their gasoline counterparts, but the real problem is that the heavy trucks cause something like 90% of the wear and damage to our highways. However, since the Interstate highway system was built, our economy has become very dependent on truck shipping, and basically any product you buy has been on at least 4-5 trucks in its lifecycle, so if you tax the trucks, you also make literally everything more expensive, with an outsize impact on more rural areas that are already suffering.

So really, road funding needs a complete overhaul, and it's not going to be easy.

 

[Van Johnston]

This is a bit of a thorny problem. The feds aren't getting anything from EVs now, the states are. But how do you tax it? You'd either have to have separate electric meters for EVs, or do a mileage tax (which means they'd have to have a reasonably secure/foolproof way of getting your mileage), or do some kind of automated GPS tracker which is going to go over like a lead balloon in the USA, and rightfully so.

ADS-B for cars!

(IBTL)

 

[SoonerAviator]

I've heard that from a few people that rent cars on Turo. Cars like Teslas get rented for a day or three for someone to try it out and have fun with the performance... But they also had cars like Priuses and said they'll get rented out usually 1-3 weeks at a time for people who want to do a cheap road trip. The daily cost of renting a Tesla kills any savings in fuel since the Prius is pretty cheap at maybe $30/day in gas and $30-$50/day in rental vs the Teslas being more like $129-$199/day.

And the 8-minute zero to 60 doesn't really matter if you only do it a couple of times.



This!!! It's amazing how much of a pain in the ass that 5-10 minutes seems like when you're used to not doing it any more.



Same.



Any car is software... On the Tesla, you can even choose your pedal response. "Chill Mode" nerfs it some because people weren't used to a car responding so fast.

But, I've never met a gas car that doesn't lag just a little. Simple physics - It takes a fraction of a second for the fuel/air mixture to get to the cylinders, be compressed and ignited. The EV response is instantaneous.

Power in an ICE is also proportional to RPM, so when you shove the pedal down, you don't get all the power right away. On EVs the response does vary greatly depending on available power, but the Teslas have enough that the relationship of acceleration to pedal position is very linear. Push the pedal down twice as far, you instantly accelerate twice as fast. It's a hoot.



This is certainly an issue, and everyone should be paying their fair share for maintenance of the roads. Gas taxes were easy because heavier vehicles generally got worse mileage but also caused more wear and tear on the roads. EVs pay no gas tax, but do pay much higher fees in many states, to the point that I pay 5 times as much to the state in registration fees than I would be paying in gas taxes if I drove a gasser, and that includes federal gas taxes.

This is a bit of a thorny problem. The feds aren't getting anything from EVs now, the states are. But how do you tax it? You'd either have to have separate electric meters for EVs, or do a mileage tax (which means they'd have to have a reasonably secure/foolproof way of getting your mileage), or do some kind of automated GPS tracker which is going to go over like a lead balloon in the USA, and rightfully so.

Add to that a few other issues with the system unrelated to EVs: One being that the federal gas tax has not increased since 1993 so it is WAY behind inflation and leading to a lack of federal highway funding. In addition, diesel is probably way cheaper than it ought to be. Diesel cars pay less than their gasoline counterparts, but the real problem is that the heavy trucks cause something like 90% of the wear and damage to our highways. However, since the Interstate highway system was built, our economy has become very dependent on truck shipping, and basically any product you buy has been on at least 4-5 trucks in its lifecycle, so if you tax the trucks, you also make literally everything more expensive, with an outsize impact on more rural areas that are already suffering.

So really, road funding needs a complete overhaul, and it's not going to be easy.

Tax on tires. Tax OTR trucks with a turnpike-type system. Done. Spreading the road tax into freight costs across the products being shipped is exactly how it should work. It's a cost of doing business, and those consumers should bear that burden rather than the taxpayers of whichever state is repairing the roads.

 

[FastEddieB]

But how do you tax it? …or do a mileage tax (which means they'd have to have a reasonably secure/foolproof way of getting your mileage)…

Should not be an insurmountable problem. On vehicle tag renewal, ask vehicle mileage. I think FL did when I lived there. Base tag renewal on the reported number, and make it a crime to falsify it. When the vehicle is sold, require mileage on the title application as well, and have a method of comparing the two, again, with penalties for cheats. Even easier in states with vehicle inspections.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Y'all... I may not get the full writeup done tonight, because it's late...

But I LOVE this car. I remember now the giddy feeling I got from driving the Model 3 a few years ago (for a week). Like then, I was a bit tentative at first because of course it's a nice new car and I don't want to mess it up and I didn't completely have it dialed in yet.

I set it up the way I thought I wanted it at pickup, drove 110 miles home, and then sat in my garage and adjusted a few things.

The seats are so much more comfortable than the Bolt... I think they're better than I've had in a long time, maybe ever, but the Bolt's seats were BAD. Instead of aching like I would after a 35-mile commute in the Bolt, after the 110 mile trip home I hopped right back in and drove it around for another hour and a half, a few miles on the highway but mostly just tearing up the back "rustic" roads (aka roller coaster roads) near my house.

THis thing is SO FUN to drive. I don't care what @Ted says. I probably wouldn't have been nearly as aggressive with a noisy gas car because, well, it's late. But holy crap that was fun. I haven't had that much fun driving in many years.

It handles really well. It corners like nothing else, thanks to its CG being about a foot off the ground. Zero body roll, and it sticks to the road really well. I went around a dang traffic circle at 40 mph! And one of my favorite roads here is the aptly named Hogsback Ridge, speed limit 25 for safety of vehicles (nobody lives on that road). I took that at 55, laughing the whole time. What a gas! Er, uh, so to speak.

Between the acceleration and the cornering, it's just an absolute joy to throw around back roads like that. I'm gonna need new tires by the time I hit 1,000 miles.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

OK, I'll try to get the first part out - The delivery.

Tesla has a pretty nice no-touch system. I had done everything I needed to do on the web site prior to leaving - Car was paid for, agreements read, and delivery accepted, which then automatically gave me access to the car through their mobile app.

We got to Highland Park and found the car which had a sign with my name on the dash, unlocked the car via the mobile app, and the remaining paperwork was sitting on the driver's seat ready to go. I signed where they'd highlighted, dropped the paperwork back in the provided folder, stuck it in the designated dropbox on the side of the building, and that was that - I didn't *have to* speak to a single soul.



However, there were a couple of employees floating around the lot in case anyone had questions, and one of them, upon seeing my four-year-old, went inside and got him a die-cast Model 3:



My wife and son left to go home, and I proceeded to inspect the car closely - I took probably an hour and a half on this. It's certainly not strictly necessary, but we've all heard of production quality issues with Tesla. They're rare, but it's also good to document them if they do exist so Tesla will fix them for free. For anyone who's taking delivery of a 3 or Y and wants to go into this much depth, there's a checklist available on GitHub or at https://teslaprep.glideapp.io

There's one panel gap that isn't perfect. I'd have never noticed it on another car, but I've never looked at a car this closely before. It's very minor, and not at all worth fixing. It's in the pic above... Can you see it?

There was a small "dent" in the seat, but I realized it was from how the seat belts were kind of jammed in between the seats and door frame during shipping, so hopefully that will work itself out in a few days. If not, again, not something I'm going to care about.

The one thing I might try to get fixed - There were some minor scratches in the clear coat on the trunk lid. You have to be looking at it in just the right light to see it at all.

The biggest disappointment in the process, which was still pretty minor, was that, after waiting for the car to be detailed after shipping, the exterior was quite dirty (you can see it in the pic above). I think this is simply due to the Highland Park facility being just feet away from the busy US highway 41, so I took it through a touchless car wash on the way home to give it a good rinse.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Tax on tires. Tax OTR trucks with a turnpike-type system. Done. Spreading the road tax into freight costs across the products being shipped is exactly how it should work. It's a cost of doing business, and those consumers should bear that burden rather than the taxpayers of whichever state is repairing the roads.

That's one option, kind of the Libertarian style view.

However, that merely means we'll have more people crammed into cities, and that comes with costs to taxpayers as well.

Really, having the diesel taxes low is one of the many financial sacrifices the government makes on the backs of our great grandchildren in order to keep our economy humming along. It's not at all unlike our artificially low corporate taxes.

Also, the issue with tire taxes is it simply leads to people replacing their tires less often, leading to a decrease in safety. That's why I'd favor a formula using simply the weight of the vehicle and the miles driven.

</tangent>

 

[AggieMike88]

Any car is software... On the Tesla, you can even choose your pedal response. "Chill Mode" nerfs it some because people weren't used to a car responding so fast.

The Tesla owner community has proven via trial and error that driving in chill mode will reduce measured battery degradation and extend range.

This setting and a few others that help eek out of bit more long term performance are engaged full time on my Zaphod. But I’ll switch to Sport and go fast when showing off to someone.

And one pedal driving is surprisingly easy to learn.

 

[AggieMike88]

@flyingcheesehead

being a data geek, be sure to download the Stats app for Tesla.

Other apps to get and try:

• A Better Route Planner
• Optiwatt
• Watch for Tesla (car controls in your Apple Watch)

Your youngster is going to love that they added Disney+ to the Theatre options. And don’t forget to get some game controllers too.

 

[AggieMike88]

And I fully expect to see Kent in line at the coffee stand telling the person behind him, “… did you know I am a pilot and a Tesla owner?”

 

[Ted]

And I fully expect to see Kent in line at the coffee stand telling the person behind him, “… did you know I am a pilot and a Tesla owner?”

"And it's way more fun than your Ferrari/Corvette/Lamborghini!"

 

[AggieMike88]

For those curious, here is the charging report for Zaphod from the past two nights.

The price is what I spent charging in my garage off of the wall charger I had installed.

App used is “Optiwatt”

 

[charheep]

And I fully expect to see Kent in line at the coffee stand telling the person behind him, “… did you know I am a pilot and a Tesla owner?”

At least he is not a vegan...

 

[PaulS]

For those curious, here is the charging report for Zaphod from the past two nights.

The price is what I spent charging in my garage off of the wall charger I had installed.

App used is “Optiwatt”

View attachment 100153

I test drove a Model Y on Monday. Sweet ride, seriously considering ordering one. I think we are getting to a tipping point as gasoline once again rises above $3.00 a gallon on it's way to $4.00, these electric cars are more of a viable alternative than ever. I'm ready to say screw gasoline, they Y will easily serve my transportation needs.

I have a friend who has a Leaf, and loves it. It works well for him pretty much year round.

 

[Ted]

At least he is not a vegan...

...yet...

 

[FastEddieB]

I’m still extremely jealous.

It’s probably just an artifact in your photo, but is you hood emblem centered and straight? Small thing, but it would drive me crazy.

 

[ColoPilot]

For those curious, here is the charging report for Zaphod from the past two nights.

The price is what I spent charging in my garage off of the wall charger I had installed.

App used is “Optiwatt”

View attachment 100153

You only pay $0.06/kWH? Is that a off-peak, night rate and it's higher in the day, or is that your normal rate? We pay around $0.11/kWH.

 

[SoonerAviator]

That's one option, kind of the Libertarian style view.

However, that merely means we'll have more people crammed into cities, and that comes with costs to taxpayers as well.

Really, having the diesel taxes low is one of the many financial sacrifices the government makes on the backs of our great grandchildren in order to keep our economy humming along. It's not at all unlike our artificially low corporate taxes.

Also, the issue with tire taxes is it simply leads to people replacing their tires less often, leading to a decrease in safety. That's why I'd favor a formula using simply the weight of the vehicle and the miles driven.

</tangent>

I was suggesting the tire tax on EVs specifically, although as you said it could result in people trying to push tires too far. It would also likely cause the cost of tires to be pretty pricey if you had to come up with 40K miles of "use tax" money on top of the tires which many people don't set back throughout the course of 3+ years. Same could be said about having to essentially come up with a year's worth of road tax when it comes time for inspection/tag renewal. Ideally, all state and federal roadways would use a turnpike toll system that just charges a per use fee since it's the most direct way to assign cost to the user. Local roads paid for with whatever mechanism makes sense, be it sales taxes, fuel tax, or property tax.

 

[AggieMike88]

You only pay $0.06/kWH? Is that a off-peak, night rate and it's higher in the day, or is that your normal rate? We pay around $0.11/kWH.

City owned utility. 6¢/kWH all day

 

[Rich Holt]

The price is what I spent charging in my garage off of the wall charger I had installed.

0.06/kWH? Wow. I'm shelling out 0.17kWH right now. Electricity is so high here, along with added registration and the property tax for EVs, it makes leaving the ICE behind suck. A lot. I am not surprised by this at all, btw. A 12 kW solar system install, where I live, is about $30k more than the neighboring state. Must be "transportation fees."

 

[Bill]

0.06/kWH? Wow. I'm shelling out 0.17kWH right now. Electricity is so high here, along with added registration and the property tax for EVs, it makes leaving the ICE behind suck. A lot. I am not surprised by this at all, btw. A 12 kW solar system install, where I live, is about $30k more than the neighboring state. Must be "transportation fees."

"They" are going to ensure that there is no free lunch.

 

[PaulS]

City owned utility. 6¢/kWH all day

Wow, is that the generation cost or the fully distributed cost? That's cheap. I'm on a municipal electric system, I can get 9 cents off peak and about 13 cents the rest of the time, with all charges in there for EV. The generated cost for the off peak is 4.1 cents.

That's in Massachusetts, our little electric company is well run. Mass has gone green, our company put in solar power, not because it is cheaper, but to be able to sell the Green credits to the large utilities who have to buy it. Neighboring towns are paying close to 20 cents a kwh.

I know why the call them green programs, it reflects the green extracted from your wallet.

 

[A Martin]

.

Lucid Motors, a startup automaker, has unseated Tesla, the dominant maker of electric cars, as the producer of the electric vehicle that can travel farthest on a single charge.

Lucid’s top-of-the-line Air Dream Edition Range can drive 520 miles on a full battery, the Environmental Protection Agency said Thursday, beating by more than 100 miles the Tesla Model S Long Range, previously the car that could go the farthest on a charge.

Lucid Beats Tesla in Range, Going 520 Miles on a Charge, EPA Says (sfgate.com)

 

[Larry in TN]

I think we are getting to a tipping point as gasoline once again rises above $3.00 a gallon on it's way to $4.00, these electric cars are more of a viable alternative than ever.

I calculated that a full 0% - 100% charge (82kWh) on my Model 3 costs just under $8.72 based on my electrical rate ($0.10157) and 95.6% charging efficiency. My car's EPA range rating is 353 miles (assumes a mix of city and highway driving). An equivalent amount of driving in a car rated at 30mpg would cost about $33.54 at the current gasoline prices in my area or $37.55 at the current national average for Regular gasoline.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The Tesla owner community has proven via trial and error that driving in chill mode will reduce measured battery degradation and extend range.

And fun.

This setting and a few others that help eek out of bit more long term performance are engaged full time on my Zaphod. But I’ll switch to Sport and go fast when showing off to someone.

I'm strongly considering making another driver profile for "fun" driving. So, one for normal driving/commuting with standard settings (and maybe even chill mode), speed warnings, etc... And then another one with everything in Sport mode, no warnings, etc. Then I could change all of those settings with two taps on the screen.

I'm probably going to finish getting the first one dialed in, though...

And one pedal driving is surprisingly easy to learn.

Yup. I've been doing it for a while. As I mentioned before, I still have somewhat of a stick-shift mentality because I never owned a gasser with an automatic (unless you count me as owning half of my wife's cars). In all of the EVs I've owned so far, I switch between N, D and L to modify the regen response, but I'm always single pedal.

@flyingcheesehead

being a data geek, be sure to download the Stats app for Tesla.

Other apps to get and try:

• A Better Route Planner
• Optiwatt
• Watch for Tesla (car controls in your Apple Watch)

Ooh, thanks! I'm also going to get on TeslaFi for data.

Your youngster is going to love that they added Disney+ to the Theatre options. And don’t forget to get some game controllers too.

Well, I'm sure we'll probably watch some Hamilton in there, but I'm probably not gonna buy any game controllers - Last thing I need is for that kid to get more screen time! And I'm not likely to use Superchargers much. If we're going more than 100 miles away from home, we pretty much take the plane every time. I used to do L3 charging on the i3 sometimes, but only because its range wasn't much more than 100 miles.

And I fully expect to see Kent in line at the coffee stand telling the person behind him, “… did you know I am a pilot and a Tesla owner?”

Good thing I'm not vegan and I don't do CrossFit.

"And it's way more fun than your Ferrari/Corvette/Lamborghini!"

Nope... "And I bet you'll like it even more than your Ferrari/Corvette/Lamborghini! You can drive mine if I can drive yours!"

At least he is not a vegan...

...yet...

Never. I could never stop eating BBQ. And steak. And pizza with meat on it.

I get the #14 with bacon at Jimmy John's just so they have to kill three animals to make my lunch. I am a carnivore.

It’s probably just an artifact in your photo, but is you hood emblem centered and straight? Small thing, but it would drive me crazy.

Yes. I did not take any pains to center myself for that picture, as you can see from my reflection.

City owned utility. 6¢/kWH all day

Wow! That's a fantastic rate!

Lucid Motors, a startup automaker, has unseated Tesla, the dominant maker of electric cars, as the producer of the electric vehicle that can travel farthest on a single charge.

Lucid’s top-of-the-line Air Dream Edition Range can drive 520 miles on a full battery

Anyone who already drives an EV is unimpressed by this. It's pointless. That's 6.5 hours of driving at 80. Have you ever done that without stopping? I have. It SUCKS. And I was getting paid to do it.

The problem with having that kind of range on an EV is that you're carrying a massive battery around that you're only going to really make use of once or twice a year... And that means poorer efficiency and performance all year long.

The next-gen Tesla Roadster will have 620 miles, but the whole point of that car is to blow away every single statistic about cars there is, so there's no "but a gas car can..." any more. And that's just if the Rimac Nevera doesn't beat them to it, though the Roadster is going to be an order of magnitude less expensive (and they're going to build more than 150 of them).

 

[Rich Holt]

Air Dream Edition Range can drive 520 miles on a full battery

There are so many other vehicles that I can think of for $170k that get you 1000 miles at 200 kts.

 

[Brad W]

Anyone who already drives an EV is unimpressed by this. It's pointless. That's 6.5 hours of driving at 80. Have you ever done that without stopping? I have. It SUCKS. And I was getting paid to do it.

The problem with having that kind of range on an EV is that you're carrying a massive battery around that you're only going to really make use of once or twice a year... And that means poorer efficiency and performance all year long.

The next-gen Tesla Roadster will have 620 miles, but the whole point of that car is to blow away every single statistic about cars there is, so there's no "but a gas car can..." any more. And that's just if the Rimac Nevera doesn't beat them to it, though the Roadster is going to be an order of magnitude less expensive (and they're going to build more than 150 of them).

agreed. count me in as unimpressed. Even the quest for >300 miles seems nearly pointless. I've driven an Audi Etron for a bit more than a year now.... with a meager range of roughly 200 miles. It's enough. The use paradigm is different...even on road trips it's enough. I've never not gone anyplace I needed or wanted to go nor been overly inconvenienced. I'd like to have had maybe just a wee bit more range once or twice but that's really only driven by the current geography and spacing of the chargers for road trips. 99% of my charging is at home and it does not even need to happen daily.

On the one pedal thing. I found it it interesting but I very much prefer the way Audi did it. I don't want to use power right up to the instant that i want to slow down. With the Audi I can coast a long long way before using the "brake" pedal to regen. A much more efficient and I might add intuitive way to go.

 

[Brad W]

oh...I meant to add a comment top the OP....beautiful car you have. they are nice Congrats

 

[flyingcheesehead]

A few notes on charging...

I stopped at a Supercharger on the way home even though I didn't need it, just to make sure it worked and to see how it performed. I went to the one in Oak Creek, WI which is still a "v2" (150kW shared between pairs of plugs, 120kW max per plug) instead of "v3" (250kW, no sharing) supercharger. I did use the navigation system to get there and the car let me know that it was pre-conditioning the battery for supercharging.

However, when I got there, every other spot was full. On the v2 chargers, that's the way to do it so that everybody gets the max. Because the car was so dusty, I wanted to get it washed too. So, rather than plug in I turned around and went back to a Kwik Trip I'd seen a half mile or so before, only to find out it's one of the ones without a car wash. Voice commanded "navigate to Oak Creek supercharger" again and it started preparing again, and when I got the half mile back... There was only one other car there!

I started at 40%, set the limit to 100%, and when I left the car was ramping up through 68kW. I walked to a Mod Pizza across the street to grab a much-needed dinner and bathroom break. 25 minutes later when I got back, the car was at 87% and well into the ramp down at only 44kW. Since the Oak Creek Supercharger is in the parking lot of Meijer and I needed some shampoo, I went inside to buy that and 10 minutes later when I came back out the car was at 100%. Since the 80%-100% range slows way down when fast charging as it becomes voltage-limited instead of current-limited, that's pretty good performance.

Also, since this is an LFP battery, it's perfectly happy being charged to 100% and Tesla recommends doing so at least once a week. There must be either a small buffer on top or a resistor pack somewhere, though, since regenerative braking performance didn't seem to be affected.

The car started at 64% when I picked it up in Highland Park, it was at 40% at the Supercharger 56 miles away, and at 80% when I got home, so I burned through (in theory) 44% of the battery to go 110 miles. That means 100% range would be 250 miles, very close to the rated 253 on this version of the software (I hear newer versions have it up to 262 on the LFPs), in spite of being on the highway at 80mph most of the time, making no attempt whatsoever to conserve energy. That's astounding. The low drag coefficient of the 3 (best of any production car right now) really makes a difference.

One thing I don't like/understand: The location of the charge port. It's at the left rear of the car. Since I park on the right-hand side of a 2-car bay of the garage, that's a very inconvenient spot. All of my previous electrified vehicles had the charge port except for the i3 had them right in front of the driver's door on the driver's side. (The i3 was above the right rear tire, also not great.) I backed in last night, but that puts my charge plug right in the perfect place for someone coming into the garage with some stuff to break it right off (when I'm backed in, the door into the garage is about where the left rear wheel of the car is). So, I'm probably going to have to pull forward into the garage tonight and do some measuring to see how I might be able to put the cord in a more convenient spot. The cords will reach from the front, but I'd prefer the plug to be right at hand where the port is when I'm parked. Lots of people have built supports in their garages to hold the cord (and plug, when not in use) overhead, but that seems like a somewhat klunky solution, and likely incompatible with me, being a tall guy. I'll probably need to take some measurements this weekend.

I used my existing L2 charger with the included J1772->Tesla adapter, and it worked perfectly. I'm probably still going to switch to a Tesla charger, but only because I plan to be in Teslas for a while and I need to have an electrician out to my house for an unrelated install soon anyway.

 

[danhagan]

So really, road funding needs a complete overhaul, and it's not going to be easy.

Sure it is ... politician "How much was your last paycheck? I'll take that, thank you!"

... these electric cars are more of a viable alternative than ever.

Unless you're in California or central Texas (ERCOT) for the rolling brown outs ... next year when Texas freezes again, they'll have PSAs asking everyone to not charge their cars ...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

agreed. count me in as unimpressed. Even the quest for >300 miles seems nearly pointless. I've driven an Audi Etron for a bit more than a year now.... with a meager range of roughly 200 miles. It's enough. The use paradigm is different...

Yes. And this is hard to understand until you've had an EV. It's different. We're so used to gas cars that the really annoying things about gas cars are considered normal.

People always ask how long it takes to charge from 0 to 100%. Hell if I know, I've literally never done that. Having an EV is like having a gas car that gets filled up by the Exxon Fairy in your garage every night so you never have to go to a gas station. On the rare occasions that you charge an EV away from home, yes it takes longer... But when you're on a longer road trip, you generally stop for longer than it takes to get gas anyway, because by the time you need gas, you probably have to pee and eat too.

And there, people are used to needing to stand next to their car when they're fueling it. With an EV, you plug it in and walk away, and go do all those things you were going to do at the stop anyway. But because people are used to standing next to their cars when they refuel, the length of time it takes is of primary concern to them.

On the one pedal thing. I found it it interesting but I very much prefer the way Audi did it. I don't want to use power right up to the instant that i want to slow down. With the Audi I can coast a long long way before using the "brake" pedal to regen. A much more efficient and I might add intuitive way to go.

That's probably my least favorite part about the one-pedal driving, and is the main reason I shift between D, N, and L on EVs. Most of them merely limit the regen when in "D" so that it drives just like a gas car, which is a good thing while we're still in a transitional period, and then "L" gives you full regen. The Tesla doesn't have an "L", though, Tesla's "D" is like "L".

You can certainly moderate the deceleration and get the same sort of reaction from a Tesla (or any other EV in L), but I do like to be able to just let go of the pedal and coast too. Tesla can do that if you switch to N, but since that's on a stalk instead of a shifter it's not right at hand the way it was before for me.

All that said, I don't like the regen being on the brake pedal either, because I like to go for maximum efficiency and I don't want the pads to touch the rotors, even inadvertently, unless I need them to. "L" (or D in the Tesla) is good for when you want max regen with no friction braking.

I do miss the little regen paddle in the Bolt. I usually would start coasting in N, then D, then L, then L plus the paddle to get maximum effort. You could also use the paddle in D. The Bolt in L with the paddle felt like stronger regen than the Tesla has.