Tim Cobb
Pre-Flight
I'm up against my PPL checkride in the next few weeks. I'd like to hear about others experiences. What happened to you? Thanks!
Who are you using for an examiner?
18. It’s a test of your flying skill, not your knowledge of PTS minutiae. Make sure you know which maneuver the examiner wants done, and confirm the details if necessary – before you start the maneuver.
I was one of the 10% that failed the first time.
Things were going great we were configured for slow flight and moved into the power off stall. The stall went fine put during the power off recovery your truly left the flaps down.
DPE says ok now lets do a power on stall. So as I start to configure I immediately recognize something is wrong. Takes me a minute to find it but I do and I bring the flaps up and we continue on.
During the review he informs me that he cannot pass me because of the stall recovery not being completed correctly and subsequently going to full power with full flaps and trying to exceed the POH's full flap speed.
However, he knew I was aware I had the problem with the airplanes performance and I identified and resolved it which is a good sign.
Two days later I took the CFI back with me for the additional training, then took the DPE up ran through the stall series and flew home as a private pilot with my CFI as a passenger.
As Ron said "Relax". Enjoy the experience with someone else and learn. Every DPE or checkride CFI I've had was out to teach me something as well.
Your DPE didn't discontinue the ride as soon as he determined that was a failed attempt at a maneuver? That's messed up. Happy ending, but that's disappointing to finish a checkride and find out during the debrief that you failed.
While I've heard of examiners doing this, it's not "by the book."At that point we just had a couple of landings to go so I guess he allowed us to finish those so that there would only be one item for the quick retest.
The examiner is required to notify the applicant when a task is unsatisfactory. After that, the test may be continued only with the agreement of both the examiner and the applicant. I suspect it's written this way so the applicant can't accuse the examiner of letting performance in a later area influence the grading of a prior area.FAA Order 8900.2 said:When the applicant's performance is unsatisfactory in the demonstration of knowledge and/or skill, inform the applicant of the reasons for the disapproval...
The examiner or the applicant may discontinue the test at any time when the failure of a required area of operation makes the applicant ineligible for the certificate or rating sought. If the test is discontinued, the applicant must receive credit for only those Areas of Operations which were successfully performed. With the consent of the examiner, the applicant may also elect to continue the test after failing a required task. The applicant must receive credit only for those Areas of Operations which are satisfactorily completed.
While I've heard of examiners doing this, it's not "by the book."
The examiner is required to notify the applicant when a task is unsatisfactory.
When the applicant's performance is unsatisfactory in the demonstration of knowledge and/or skill, inform the applicant of the reasons for the disapproval...
The examiner or the applicant may discontinue the test at any time when the failure of a required area of operation makes the applicant ineligible for the certificate or rating sought. If the test is discontinued, the applicant must receive credit for only those Areas of Operations which were successfully performed. With the consent of the examiner, the applicant may also elect to continue the test after failing a required task. The applicant must receive credit only for those Areas of Operations which are satisfactorily completed.
That guidance you highlighted in red refers to discontinuing the ride after a task has been failed, not when notification of unsatisfactory performance is given. It does not appear to offer the option of hiding the failure until later in the ride.
If the examiner doesn't tell you that you've failed when you've failed, what word would you suggest? The applicant can't "elect" to continue after failing if not informed of the failure.No one is "hiding" the failure, you're interjecting words.
Tim - I think I have the King CD Private Pilot Checkride laying around somewhere - you're welcome to it if you want. It doesn't really "teach" you anything you don't already know, once you're signed off by your CFI he's saying you're ready. It does however remove the -"fear of the unknown" for your first check ride.
Edit: on second thought, it's probably VHS tape ... ???
His name is "Jerry" he's older, handlebar mustache.
Just relax. Youre ready. If you weren't the instructor wouldn't have signed you off. It's much easier said than done as I was a nervous wreck, but afterwards i realized that it wasn't that bad. If you have problems relaxing just remember, you have the dominant facial hair.
AFS-640 says otherwise. Their position (stated in a phne call today) is that the Order requires that the applicant be notified immediately after performance of a task is deemed unsatisfactory. The only exception is when the examiner fears for his/her safety if such notification is given, in which case the notification may be delayed until they get to where the examiner feels safe enough to give the applicant the bad news.The Order does not specify at what point of the check ride that the examiner must notify the applicant that a task was unsatisfactory.
AFS-640 says otherwise. Their position (stated in a phne call today) is that the Order requires that the applicant be notified immediately after performance of a task is deemed unsatisfactory. The only exception is when the examiner fears for his/her safety if such notification is given, in which case the notification may be delayed until they get to where the examiner feels safe enough to give the applicant the bad news.
Well, that's the input from the Examiner Standardization folks, so you can take it and be confident that you won't have to worry about consequences, or go against it and take the chance that you'll get hosed if the applicant complains. Caveat inspector.Ron, you can make all the phone calls you wish, but unless they are willing to put it in writing on an official letter head and sign it then it's simply one man's opinion and carries no weight whatsoever.
Well, that's the input from the Examiner Standardization folks, so you can take it and be confident that you won't have to worry about consequences, or go against it and take the chance that you'll get hosed if the applicant complains. Caveat inspector.
The answer is in writing in the Orders under discussion. The issue here is that your personal interpretation of the written Order differs from that of the office charged with standardizing its implementation. On that, I can't help you.LOL!
As you are well aware the FAA does not issue verbal policy. You can claim all the phone calls and personal communications you wish, but unless it's in an Order, Notice or Memo on the letterhead and signed it's simply an opinion with no weight.
So get it in writing if you want anyone to take you seriously.
The answer is in writing in the Orders under discussion. The issue here is that your personal interpretation of the written Order differs from that of the office charged with standardizing its implementation. On that, I can't help you.
On that, I can't help you.
I'm not your mother or your boss. You are entirely free to deviate from what AFS-640 has told me 8900.2 means. But if an Inspector deviates from that with one of my trainees, and it negatively impacts on my trainee, I'll provide that Inspector the opportunity to justify his/her interpretation to HQ Flight Standards. If you can live with that, so be it.Get them to put it on a letterhead and sign it. Otherwise your stories of phone calls and personal communications are fantasy.
Great job Tim and congrats!!
Not sure what the percentage is anymore, but you just became one of the 2 or 3% of people in the United States that have a PPL.