Tell me there's Hope...

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ThunderGod67

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ThunderGod67
Hello all! I'm Peter...ThunderGod67 in most posts and video games! So...right to it...


I have ALWAYS wanted to be a pilot, ever since my first airshow at somewhere around 5. I was also ALWAYS discouraged from this by my mother. She did this partly out of concern for my safety, but it goes deeper than concern for a child just because you worry about your kids. I am Color Blind! Red/Green colorblind to be specific. When I was 18 that would have Totally killed all chances, but...IF I understand correctly: The rules have been changed (not sure when), and I can now hold a PPL? Does anyone know if this is correct? I believe that I can show competency by correctly identifying the lights from a tower, with a licensed FAA doc in tow?

Like the post said: Tell me there's hope!!!!

Peter Thormahlen
 
I am also red/green color deficent, but Yes, you can be a pilot, but your medical will show a limitation that prevents you from flying at night. Color blindness is not a yes or no thing, its a scale from mild to severe. Depending on how bad yours is you may be able to remove that restriction from your medical by a couple of ways. One is obtaining a SODA. Basically you take a test with the FAA and they determine if you can tell the difference between the red, greeen and white lights from a control tower. Then you go over a sectional and you need to show you can see the different colors on there showing the different airspaces. If you pass, you get a waver for life. If you fail, your limitations are set in stone FOR LIFE! So be very positive you can pass these tests before doing them. You get one chance! This is a last resort! Other possibilitys are to take and pass one of the several FAA approved color blind tests. Most docs use the Ishihara plates, those circles of colored dots with a number in the middle. This is the hardest test! Very few docs have the other tests, but if you can find one and pass, your good to go.
Another option is after you gotten at least a 3rd class medical (with the restriction for failing the color blind test), is to go Basic Med. Basically you self certify you are fit for flight. If you feel your level of color blindness is not a hinderance to flying by light signals, then you can legally do so. So yes, you can become a pilot. You probably will never fly the big iron or do it for a career, but you can become a pilot. Worst case scenerio is you can't fly at night.
 
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I know a pilot who has some level of color blindness, he even owns a plane.

You need to start some research, go to the right people for answers.
 
I'm blue/green color blind, and I also have a pilot's license/own a plane. Blue/green has been virtually a non-issue (At least as far as flying is concerned. Now picking shirts for work is a different story). Class iii medical has been a piece of cake for me, even though I fail the color blind test every time, and that's with 3 different doctors through the past 20 years. I've just mentioned that I'm blue / green color blind, and they shrug or nod and move on. No night limitation. Must be different for red/green, but G-force says its doable, so there ya go!
 
Peter, first, make sure you are color blind. The standard colored dot test, the Ishihara, is calibrated with a color temperature of sunlight, about 5,400 degrees Kelvin. Flourescent light, typically found in MD offices, is about 3,500 Kelvin. No bueno! So find a doc that will let you take the test outside on a clear, sunny day.

Fail that one and you will need a SODA = Statement of Demonstrated Ability. The key here is practice, practice, practice! Find a slow ATC tower, take them a pizza one night, and stand in the parking lot with your CFI and a handheld radio and practice until you get it. If you can get a SODA it does not expire, you are good to go. Failing that, you can get a medical valid for daytime ops only. Good Luck!
 
A colleague of mine who came from a whole family of pilots was red/green color-blind. After struggling with the Ishihara tests, he managed to pass one of the alternative color vision tests (lantern test?) and all was good. All you can do is to try one of the several alternatives to demonstrating minimum color recognition ability. But there are a lot of "color-blind" pilots with no restrictions out there.
 
I'm red/green color blind. When I went for my initial third class medical five or six years ago I knew I would not pass the Ishihara plate test and told the AME. He had me look at a sectional chart and identify a number of colors. If I wanted a first or second class that approach wouldn't have been available.

I found an AME that has a Farnsworth Lantern and plan to get a non-binding evaluation with that in a few weeks. If I can't pass that and want a first or second class then I'd have to do the OCVT and MFT tests.
 
If you have a driver's license, you can be certified as a Sport Pilot without needing an FAA physical at all. You won't be able to fly at night, you will only be able to carry a single passenger, you'll have to stay VFR, and you'll be limited to light sport aircraft.

BUT, you'll be flying, and those limitations aren't as limiting as they seem. LSAs are capable aircraft, and you and a passenger will be able to fly anywhere in the US and the Bahamas. Your training hours will count toward your Private license if you decide later on to get the medical and upgrade your ticket.

So why not just do Sport Pilot to start? See how much you like flying before making moving further. Besides, you might decide that Sport is all you need.
 
I have zero affiliation but call these people

https://www.leftseat.com/

Also LSA, gliders and maybe basic med.

I’d also say if you have a hard time with the color dots, good chance you are NOT color blind, that test is a really bad test the FAA is, for whatever reason, enthralled with, there are other tests too OUTSIDE of a SODA, the SODA is a flight with a fed and if you screw it up you are FOREVER color blind, where as if you just shop for a approved color test that you can pass if you mess one up no biggie you can retest.
Now if you are legit colorblind you’re just going to be limited to day flights and no IFR.
 
Half Fast said:
In which case you might as well just do Sport Pilot in the first place and avoid the FAA medical mess altogether.
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If I didn’t fly for money, I’d go sport or basic all day, the further you can stay from the BS of the FAA the better.
 
According to the Air Force I'm red/green deficient also. Navy passed me 100% with their Farnsworth Lantern test. Of course, now that test is no longer allowed and everyone (for the military anyway) is going to the Color Contrast Test. It's a much more precise test and gives you a rating for each color. Turns out I'm around 55% on green in my left eye, 65% in my right eye. Was weird since I've never had any issues determining colors in actuality.

Anyway, there are a ton of options as far as the FAA is concerned with regard to color vision, and you get numerous opportunities to prove that you can be a safe pilot even if you fail nearly every test. Since I'm a new member I can't provide the link yet, but if you go to the trusty googles and search "faa medical requirements color vision" it will be the first link. Take a look through there.

Since the Farnsworth Lantern test is no longer even made it's going to be increasingly difficult for me to find someone that still has one. So far I've been able to get through a Class 2 medical without having to go through any of the alternate tests on the merit of having previously passed the lantern test for the Navy. I know at some point I'll probably get some push back on that and have to go through the process, but I'll cross that bridge later.

The short answer is, don't just accept no as the answer. There's almost always a way.
 
Lots of threads on this and lots of good answers already. Being somewhat red/green color deficient myself, the first thing I did was find out what it means to "fail" the FAA test. You can miss a certain number of plates and still "pass" to FAA standards.

"Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates: Concise 14-plate edition: six or more errors on plates 1-11." That is from the FAA website, if you have 6 errors, you fail. If you miss 5, you pass.

Take this information to your eye doctor, see if s/he has the correct version of the test and see if you pass. As stated, make sure the test is not an old, dusty book and the lighting conditions are correct. The FAA site also lists the other acceptable tests, but I think the Ishihara is the most common and readily available test.

Lots of people dealing with the color deficiency hassle have pilot certificates, it's doable.
 
So, question for all y'all red-green color deficient folks... I know a red-green student pilot who can't really distinguish between magenta and blue, so his biggest problem is reading sectionals. He can't he can't tell the difference between the magenta Class C lines and the blue Class B lines. Or the dashed-magenta Class E surface area vs. Class D. Or towered vs. non-towered airport symbols.
He's developed some workarounds... for instance, looking for the "CT" with the frequency on the chart indicating that there's a tower. But I'm at a loss for how to work around Class B vs. C. He flies in the SF Bay Area, so the airspace is a swirl of magenta and blue.
Any recommendations how to cope with this issue? Lifehacks? (Sorry for hijacking the thread.)
 
@kath See post #5. First see if this person is really color blind. This sounds like a long shot but here's hoping...

-Skip
 
May be a bit off topic, but other than light gun signals, what else is impacted by color blindness? Reading charts might be an issue, but surely no one relies solely on the chart color to determine terrain elevation and airspace rings. You would do all that during preflight anyway. At night even a normal person will have some difficulty distinguishing between colors, so I am curious what the justification is for the color test in the medical. Is this really a critical safety issue? FWIW, I never had to use light gun signals in 25 years of flying, so even that requirement seems a bit moot.
 
kath said:
So, question for all y'all red-green color deficient folks... I know a red-green student pilot who can't really distinguish between magenta and blue, so his biggest problem is reading sectionals. He can't he can't tell the difference between the magenta Class C lines and the blue Class B lines. Or the dashed-magenta Class E surface area vs. Class D. Or towered vs. non-towered airport symbols.
He's developed some workarounds... for instance, looking for the "CT" with the frequency on the chart indicating that there's a tower. But I'm at a loss for how to work around Class B vs. C. He flies in the SF Bay Area, so the airspace is a swirl of magenta and blue.
Any recommendations how to cope with this issue? Lifehacks? (Sorry for hijacking the thread.)
Click to expand...

If it's solid and has a mode C veil ring around it, it's Bravo. If solid, NO mode C veil... Charlie. Dashed w/ a ceiling in a dashed box... Delta, usually with additional larger dashed Echo around it. Colors aren't necessary...just make for faster recognition.
 
Skip Miller said:
@kath See post #5. First see if this person is really color blind.
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Well, he's my dad, so I've known him a while and I'm pretty sure. :)
An AME let him take a "practice Ishihara" and he failed it solidly. He can tell the difference between red and white VASI lights no problem, and has no plans to fly at night. But we've done a bit of studying sectionals, and I think this'll be the biggest trouble spot.

MuseChaser said:
If it's solid and has a mode C veil ring around it, it's Bravo. If solid, NO mode C veil... Charlie.
Click to expand...
San Francisco's Class B, Oakland's C, and San Jose's C, used to be based loosely on "concentric circles around each airport", so you could make an educated guess about which line was associated with which and do pretty well. But *now*, SFO's Bravo is a complete mishmash of weird polygons that overlap with the two Charlie's in irregular ways. I can't see any way through this particular airspace, except to (basically) memorize them all. Or at least, memorize Oakland and San Jose, and know that "everything else" is the SFO bravo.
 
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kath said:
The San Francisco's Class B, Oakland's C, and San Jose's C, used to be based loosely on "concentric circles around each airport", so you could make an educated guess about which line was associated with which and do pretty well. But *now*, SFO's Bravo is a complete mishmash of weird polygons that overlap with the two Charlie's in irregular ways. I can't see any way through this particular airspace, except to (basically) memorize them all. Or at least, memorize Oakland and San Jose, and know that "everything else" is the SFO bravo.
Click to expand...

The top altitudes printed for each provide a pretty good clue. And the class B altitudes are printed in a larger typeface.
 
kath said:
....San Francisco's Class B, Oakland's C, and San Jose's C, used to be based loosely on "concentric circles around each airport", so you could make an educated guess about which line was associated with which and do pretty well. But *now*, SFO's Bravo is a complete mishmash of weird polygons that overlap with the two Charlie's in irregular ways. I can't see any way through this particular airspace, except to (basically) memorize them all. Or at least, memorize Oakland and San Jose, and know that "everything else" is the SFO bravo.
Click to expand...

I just downloaded CA w/in iFlyGPS to take a closer look. Ewwwwww. I see what you mean. My only flying has been in the northeast, plenty of C and near Boston and NY B, and that was my basis for my earlier reply. Your SFO area is a total mess in comparison. While exploring it, tapping on each airspace brought up a window in iFlyGPS that would page through and highlight each specific airspace with bolder lines as it listed its classification, base, and ceiling, effectively identifying every space w/out needing the ability to distinguish color. Not the same as reading an actual paper chart, and I don't know if that's helpful or not. Apologies for not fully understanding the complexity of the situation in my earlier post.
 
kath said:
So, question for all y'all red-green color deficient folks... I know a red-green student pilot who can't really distinguish between magenta and blue, so his biggest problem is reading sectionals. He can't he can't tell the difference between the magenta Class C lines and the blue Class B lines. Or the dashed-magenta Class E surface area vs. Class D. Or towered vs. non-towered airport symbols.
He's developed some workarounds... for instance, looking for the "CT" with the frequency on the chart indicating that there's a tower. But I'm at a loss for how to work around Class B vs. C. He flies in the SF Bay Area, so the airspace is a swirl of magenta and blue.
Any recommendations how to cope with this issue? Lifehacks? (Sorry for hijacking the thread.)
Click to expand...


*Edit* I didn't really answer your question as I was focused on the wrong part of it, but it's still good information

Here is the link I tried to post before: https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/app_process/exam_tech/item52/amd/

This part under subsection B is probably what you'll want to focus on:

NOTE:
An applicant for a third-class airman medical certificate who has defective color vision and desires an airman medical certificate without the color vision limitation must demonstrate the ability to pass an OCVT during the day. The OCVT consists of the following:

  1. A Signal Light Test (SLT): Identify in a timely manner aviation red, green, and white
  2. Aeronautical chart reading: Read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aeronautical charts, including print in various sizes, colors, and typefaces; conventional markings in several colors; and, terrain colors
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I believe Dr. Chien has had experience training candidates to be able to pass with the plates based on learning how to interpret the subtle variations which can still appear to these candidates. Perhaps he will comment.
 
I understood that I failed my AME's color test when I took my first 3rd class physical last summer. I had a few unrelated health issues that ultimately required an SI but when I received my 3rd class cert and SI in Nov, low and behold, no limitations - other than my SI letter. No mention of my color vision nor a restriction for day flight only. Did i get lucky due to clerical error? Is it possible that I passed "enough" of the test to not receive the restriction? I suppose that i'll see how it goes on my next AME physical in 2021...
 
Texan Pilot said:
I understood that I failed my AME's color test when I took my first 3rd class physical last summer. I had a few unrelated health issues that ultimately required an SI but when I received my 3rd class cert and SI in Nov, low and behold, no limitations - other than my SI letter. No mention of my color vision nor a restriction for day flight only. Did i get lucky due to clerical error? Is it possible that I passed "enough" of the test to not receive the restriction? I suppose that i'll see how it goes on my next AME physical in 2021...
Click to expand...


Don't expect logic from the FAA. I'm using Basic Med now, but my class 3 had this:

upload_2020-1-22_16-57-52.png​

No mention of the correction I wear all the time for far vision. I guess it's okay if I can't see beyond the propeller hub, as long as I have a pair of readers on hand so I can see the panel. "Pilot is restricted to IFR flight only; VFR prohibited." :D
 
Texan Pilot said:
I understood that I failed my AME's color test when I took my first 3rd class physical last summer. I had a few unrelated health issues that ultimately required an SI but when I received my 3rd class cert and SI in Nov, low and behold, no limitations - other than my SI letter. No mention of my color vision nor a restriction for day flight only. Did i get lucky due to clerical error? Is it possible that I passed "enough" of the test to not receive the restriction? I suppose that i'll see how it goes on my next AME physical in 2021...
Click to expand...

The response you got sounds very wise to me. You were honest and up front with your information. Assume they gave it to you the way they did because you are eligible for it. Just go with it. My CFI told me that unless I was going for an ATP, never get a 3rd class again; just do Basic Med. (You can keep going all the way to commercial and CFI with Basic Med. You just can't use your commercial to get paid, except as a CFI). Too many opportunities for something to go wrong with the paper work. He's a smart guy that I guess I should listen to.
 
WDD said:
The response you got sounds very wise to me. You were honest and up front with your information. Assume they gave it to you the way they did because you are eligible for it. Just go with it. My CFI told me that unless I was going for an ATP, never get a 3rd class again; just do Basic Med. (You can keep going all the way to commercial and CFI with Basic Med. You just can't use your commercial to get paid, except as a CFI). Too many opportunities for something to go wrong with the paper work. He's a smart guy that I guess I should listen to.
Click to expand...

Huh, that's actually really good advice.
 
I briefly skimmed over every reply on this thread but this is my experience: I am red/green color deficient. I never had to do a SODA and have no limitations on my certificate and I am able to get a first class medical no problem. I was told by the AME that I could fly commercially (airlines), but won't be able to fly military. Currently, I'm actually researching how to go about getting a waiver so I can join the Air Force Reserves after college. I've heard stories of people being paralyzed and still being able to earn their PPL. The FAA sets restrictions but in most cases, especially one like this, there are ways to get around, i.e. SODA. Goodluck!
 
I, too, am red/green deficient, but got a 3rd class medical thru a retired Navy doctor, who administered a Farnsworth Lantern test https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnsworth_Lantern_Test also called FALANT. Pretty simple. If you have no problem with stoplights or Christmas tree lights, you'll have no trouble with this.
 
Just G00GLE "ishihara color blindness test" look at the "Images" tab. I know several pilot who are color blind. As stated above go to your optometrist to find out how "color blind" you really are, then talk to your FAA Medical Examiner so you know what to expect before your submit your online medical application. A good FAA Medical Examiner will work with you to get you passed, or tell you in advanced what you will need to do to obtain a waiver.
Go for it!
 
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