Our club is going to buy one it looks like. Looking for positive or negative thoughts on this plane. Mainly negative however.
Congratulations - My club bought a DA40 about 3 1/2 years ago and it's been one of the best moves we ever made. We went from members not even being able to give away their shares to shares going for $1200 a pop, and flight hours increased on ALL the airplanes after the purchase.
FWIW, I have in the 100's of hours on our club DA40, a couple hours in several other DA40's, and have done extensive research as a part of the purchase process for our plane. I've posted a lot of things in other threads that I believe were probably linked to in the post with all the thread links above, but I'll address things in this thread below:
It has a fairly low usable weight. My 172 with a 180 can haul a couple hundred pounds more. Of course, I only carry 40 Gallons of fuel.
That also means you're comparing it with an older 172. Part of our club's mission in getting the new plane was to, well, get a NEW plane (we sold a 1977 Archer to buy the DA40). If you compare a DA40 with a 172 of similar vintage and equipment, the DA40 will carry ~50-100 pounds more.
It has a longer wingspan than many others so if you plan to hangar it, take that into consideration.
Yes. A standard 40-foot hangar is going to leave you with lots of opportunity for hangar rash, as the wingspan is about 39.5 feet. Our planes are in a community hangar big enough to stuff an RJ into, so it's a non-issue for us.
Based on reports from a friend of mine that has one, it seems that maintenance costs are pretty high, when it needs maintenance. But maybe that is just his mechanic. His last annual on a 2007 DA40 was over $6k. My hightest annual on a 1977 C172n was less than 2k and that included a couple of options (like wheel fairings).
We haven't had an annual above $2K on ours yet. We do take it to a guy who is a registered Diamond service center (yeah, one guy though!) and who works on other types as well, but obviously has to know the Diamond.
1) You might not be able to afford it. Five year old planes can still be > $200k.
We bought ours at 4 years old and just under 600 TTAF for $160,000 with the normal gamut of options most people choose on the DA40 (premium interior, autopilot, etc).
2) You might not fit in it. The seats don't move only the rudder peddles move so if you are really big or really small it might not work Oregon Aero seats solve some but not all of these problems. Later XLSs have a larger canopy which can also help.
I'm 6'4" and 300# and I fit in it fine. I've flown it to TX and back. Seats aren't the most comfortable (mostly in terms of hard-ish cushions, not seat position) so if you're shorter a pad might be something you want, but they're also not bad.
3) It might not have the load/cg you need. 3 people are rarely a problem 4 will rarely work.
Yep. Make sure you check the CG and your normal loadings as well - DA40's have at various times had weights you could add to the tail or to the engine to deal with CG changes in the model's history. Ours has neither, but as heavy as I am, if I put another heavy person in the right seat I'll need to either put a person or bag in the back seat or throw my flight bag in the baggage compartment.
4) You might not like the ride as you feel the bumps due to the long wings.
It's definitely different, though I wouldn't call it "bad". It's basically the long wing catching a few more bumps, sometimes at a higher moment, so it'll rock and roll a bit more, but the bumps are gentler in feel.
* High costs...even simple things cost more...sometimes WAY more (we're increasing the hourly rate to ABOVE our 300hp 6 passenger Saratoga)!
You're doing something wrong and/or getting soaked by your shop. Maintenance-wise, it's not a difficult plane to maintain, it still has a standard Lycoming engine, etc. The main maintenance issue we have that differs from the club's other planes is that we tend to go through tires and brakes a lot faster due to pilots overusing brakes (instead of using rudder) on takeoff and landing.
* Gets tossed around in turbulence like a piece of toilet paper, with back end "fishtailing" side to side...can't stop this with rudder.
You're doing something wrong... Though I have a suggestion: Try to rest your feet on the rudder pedals instead of on the floor.
Why? Well, with the castering nosewheel, and no springs in the control system, the rudder feels loose compared to other planes, and that's because it is. If you have your feet off the pedals, the rudder can flop around and does nothing for you. If you simply keep your feet on the pedals, lateral stability is noticeably better. I've also never had a problem with rudder authority. We do have the large rudder - there was a smaller rudder on earlier models before the 50gal fuel tanks were certified - but the larger rudder was only required to be able to recover from spins with the extra 10 gallons of fuel WAY out in the wings.
* On a hot, sunny day watch out...really hot inside, and the glare is awful.
If you get one of the newer ones with the ball-style vents in the panel instead of the older ones that look like car vents, it'll put so much air into the cockpit you won't need to worry about this.
* For all the advanced technology including composites, you'd think it would be faster, have a great climb rate, and carry more...what's the point of all the technology?
Compared to other airplanes in its class (fixed-gear 180hp certified singles) it IS faster, climbs better, and carries more.
* Low low low wings make checking fuel sumps difficult, and ours is prone to condensation, so plan to spend lots of time laying on the asphalt.
Again, I'm 6'4" and I sump the tanks via taking a knee just like I do in any other low-wing airplane.
* Scares some passengers (looks like a toy with the long pole in the back).
When they climb in and put their hand on the back frame of the canopy and feel how solid it is - Way more so than any of the metal airplanes I've flown - They'll feel fine. They'll probably also like it more because it looks modern, as opposed to the 1950's designs we often fly.
* Horrible IFR machine, due to inability to hold direction (back to the fishtailing)
Again, not really a problem. I'd suggest you go up with an instructor that doesn't have preconceived notions about the plane and actually knows how to fly it.
Negatives:
-Limited range (fixed with the extended range tanks)
Compared to the Archer, without extended tanks it can go 4+ hours at 140 knots (560nm) compared to 4.8 hours at 115 knots (552nm). Basically a wash, you just get there faster. With the extended tanks, you get another hour and some extra range.
FWIW, I plan 140 KTAS and 9 gph. If you go really LOP you can get 135 on 7.5 gph, if you go full rental power, 145 on 10.5 gph. These speeds are typical for the mid-year models (2003-2006). The older ones may be somewhat slower, the newer ones can be up to 10 knots faster.
-Cooling is problematic, had a hard time keeping CHT's under 400 on 100+ days.
Hmmm. Might want to check your baffles, we don't have that problem. Then again, we don't get a whole lot of 100+ days!
-Door and canopy hinges have to be babied somewhat to keep from cracking the mounts.
I wouldn't say "babied", I would say "Tell your pax not to grab the canopy on their way in." There are plenty of very solid (and less expensive!) handholds to get in with.
I'd think an SR20 would be a better choice. Faster, better useful load, does not look weird. Good ride in turbulence.
Only about 10 knots faster, useful load gets eaten up by extra fuel, looks weird (That dual airfoil is messed up looking if you ask me).
Oh... And costs a lot more in insurance, chute repack, likes to burn when crashing, crashes a lot more often, etc... We've been over this stuff before.
I think we all know the Cirrus's high accident rate has nothing to do with the airplane. Its easy to fly and has no bad habits. So is the Diamond.
I can see that insurance for a Cirrus in a club setting might be a major cost consideration. Otherwise I give an edge to the Cirrus.
The Cirrus is likely simply not an option for a club. What got our club looking for a new airplane in the first place was a small faction that wanted a Cirrus. Others wanted a Diamond. A few wanted other planes, or to stay as is. Easiest part of the whole decision was eliminating the Cirrus. I called the insurance company how much to insure a Cirrus in the club, and they said "No, not at any price." They simply wouldn't do it for any group larger than 5 pilots.
Personally I also find the controls heavy which is part of what makes it tiring in turbulence.
Something must have been wrong with the one you flew. The controls on all the ones I've flown have been anything but heavy - In fact, it has probably the nicest flight characteristics of any plane I've ever flown, with the possible exception of the P-51 Mustang. I don't even touch the stick in the Diamond, I simply keep my hand around it but not touching it. When I want to change what the plane's doing, I pretty much just "think" it in the direction I want it to go, and it goes. Really nice.
