Tell me about IO-540s

[Ted]

You could also throw the very early PA31's into the cabin class without turbo mix.

Yes true, although I think then you get into OEI performance or lack thereof.

Thanks Ted. I think my strategy right now is going to be to have my wife take a look (get in and out of a couple models) and see what she prefers and then narrow it down from there. Jerry Temple has a 340 listed at Newport News about 20 min away, so I may call and see if we can take a look.

Queen Airs are another interesting one. I've always like the look and it seems like you can get a lot of airplane for the money, but I know nothing abouth the engines.

The "try before you buy" is exactly the right thing to do. Don't discount early short body 414s/421s, either. You can get a lot of plane for the money with them if bought right. I'd go 414 there because I'm not liking the GTSIO reliability, but the option exists. The wider cabin is well-liked by passengers. It also has bigger hangar and runway requirements than a 340.

The Queen Air I wouldn't go for, but that's more because I'm not a Beech person and like the Twin Cessnas better. 720s also aren't as well supported as 540s.

 

[Henning]

Still Queen Airs out there with 480s, but I also would go with a cabin Cessna.

 

[Henning]

Stratobee has lowered the price on his Aerostar to $145k, for a couple it has the best door as you close it from the pilots seat. Two fresh engines....

 

[JHW]

Yeah, I may end up sticking with the Baron. It is a great plane - easy to fly and I don't see us outgrowing it from a useful load standpoint.

My only complaint about the Baron is the cabin entry/exit. My wife has been battling chronic back/hip pain and getting in/out of the Baron and long extended trips are problematic. We make it work, but I think she would be more willing to make trips with a bigger cabin and easier entry.

At my age (over 40) I'm in a high risk/big payoff investment strategy, so looking at projected financials I don't see us ever getting into a jet. Might be able to get into an older C90, but I'm not sure that going turbo prop really gets us much. Norfolk to Phoenix would still be a two day trip with my family even in a King Air.

So, that is the thought process at the moment. Currently researching AC 500s, 340s and I haven't given up on Beech 18s (although the Twin Beech is an entirely different kind of flying).

How much more expensive do you think it is to maintain a decent 340 compared to your 310?

FWIW as a point of reference, after 1 year messing around with this early 90-series king air, it appears that it will average out to an hourly cost of exactly 7X that of my travel air. The travel air ain't too far from your baron cost-wise. And you're only going to pick up maybe 20-25kts vs the baron so all that $$ is only going to pressurization, power to carry some ice, and easier ingress.

IOW if this king air hadn't dropped in my lap almost for free, I'd never even consider it.

 

[narchee]

FWIW as a point of reference, after 1 year messing around with this early 90-series king air, it appears that it will average out to an hourly cost of exactly 7X that of my travel air. The travel air ain't too far from your baron cost-wise. And you're only going to pick up maybe 20-25kts vs the baron so all that $$ is only going to pressurization, power to carry some ice, and easier ingress.

IOW if this king air hadn't dropped in my lap almost for free, I'd never even consider it.

If you don't mind me asking what is your C90 cost per hour all in?

 

[Henning]

If you don't mind me asking what is your C90 cost per hour all in?

In New Zealand, I'm going to guess $2000 hr.

 

[JHW]

If you don't mind me asking what is your C90 cost per hour all in?

$15-1600 converted to USD. Keep in mind I'm doing nearly all the wrenching and it's based on a farm strip. That number includes engine reserves which will never come to fruition. This thing is registered as a "C" but it isn't, it's something of a frankenstein. We have -20's so when we get some eroded vanes it's game over.

 

[comanchepilot]

Stratobee has lowered the price on his Aerostar to $145k, for a couple it has the best door as you close it from the pilots seat. Two fresh engines....

and annual recurrent training to qualify for liability insurance the first year and maybe hull the second. . . . maybe. Maybe you can afford the insurance too.

But that said, great airplanes.

 

[Henning]

and annual recurrent training to qualify for liability insurance the first year and maybe hull the second. . . . maybe. Maybe you can afford the insurance too.

But that said, great airplanes.

Same thing for all the planes he's considering except the Beech 18 which would be my choice. No other choice really when he has a Waco to park next to it.

That the Be-18 can run on MoGas gives it an extra tug on the pecker.

 

[Ted]

Stratobee has lowered the price on his Aerostar to $145k, for a couple it has the best door as you close it from the pilots seat. Two fresh engines....

An Aerostar won't help his wife get in easier like an air stair door. For $145k I can think of a lot of more comfortable planes for the family.

 

[Ted]

and annual recurrent training to qualify for liability insurance the first year and maybe hull the second. . . . maybe. Maybe you can afford the insurance too.

But that said, great airplanes.

You'd probably be surprised at how lenient the insurance companies are these days. He wouldn't have a problem finding a policy with hull for anything he's considering.

 

[Henning]

AT-11 with the glass nose, that would be awesome.

 

[Fearless Tower]

That the Be-18 can run on MoGas gives it an extra tug on the pecker.

That is another data point to consider. I know that you can run the -985s on MOGAS. What is the outlook for the -540s and similar if and when 100LL goes bye-bye?

 

[Ted]

That is another data point to consider. I know that you can run the -985s on MOGAS. What is the outlook for the -540s and similar if and when 100LL goes bye-bye?

I don't see 100LL going byebye without a drop-in replacement, and that's the FAA's feeling. So, I see it as moot.

Either way, parallel valves will do MoGas no problem. Angle valves can do it, but will require more careful leaning similar to a Navajo on 100LL.

 

[JHW]

That is another data point to consider. I know that you can run the -985s on MOGAS. What is the outlook for the -540s and similar if and when 100LL goes bye-bye?

most (all?) of the geared lycomings in the t-bones will use autofuel as well

 

[Ted]

Jeff, how much of the $1500ish/hr on the FrankenAir do you think is because of your current location? When I was flying the Cheyenne we generally rounded it out as a $1k/hr aircraft here stateside. I'd figure a C90 to be similar. I'm not sure how they handled engine reserves, though.

 

[Henning]

Jeff, how much of the $1500ish/hr on the FrankenAir do you think is because of your current location? When I was flying the Cheyenne we generally rounded it out as a $1k/hr aircraft here stateside. I'd figure a C90 to be similar. I'm not sure how they handled engine reserves, though.

I was guessing $2k because my boss's Bell 407 in Aus was $1500hr and only had one engine.

 

[Ted]

I was guessing $2k because my boss's Bell 407 in Aus was $1500hr and only had one engine.

Any helicopter will cost a fortune. A Hughes 269A doesn't cost much less per hour than the 310.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

I was guessing $2k because my boss's Bell 407 in Aus was $1500hr and only had one engine.

half of that cost is to cover life limited items.....

 

[JHW]

Jeff, how much of the $1500ish/hr on the FrankenAir do you think is because of your current location? When I was flying the Cheyenne we generally rounded it out as a $1k/hr aircraft here stateside. I'd figure a C90 to be similar. I'm not sure how they handled engine reserves, though.

It's tough to tell. Basing it on a farm and guying fuel by the tanker-load, our costs here aren't really a direct comparison with a "typical" operation in the US or AUS. That said I'd suspect your 1K number didn't have cost of capital in it.