Tell me about Cessna 177B's

N2124v

N2124v

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N2124V
Ok, I am looking at buying a 177B. My main flights will be about 150nm, with some 350nm thrown in. I like the 177B for cruise speed (120kts), cabin space, and the engine. Are there any gotchas I need to look out for? Any advice? I've owned a mooney and 172's in the past, but want something different.
 
N2124v said:
Ok, I am looking at buying a 177B. My main flights will be about 150nm, with some 350nm thrown in. I like the 177B for cruise speed (120kts), cabin space, and the engine. Are there any gotchas I need to look out for? Any advice? I've owned a mooney and 172's in the past, but want something different.
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The big doors have a tendency to get caught in the wind and bend the hinges (no strut to stop them). Marginally related to that is the likelihood that water will leak into the cockpit along the joint between the door and windshield or around the windshield itself and that can lead to hidden corrosion and/or avionics damage.
 
The Cardinals (especially 177B ) have wonderful handling. If you're used to a Mooney, landing a 177B should come naturally. They easily have the nicest roll response of any high-wing Cessna. The visibilty is fantastic for a high wing, and there's lots of spread-out room in the cabin. Not as much headroom as in a 172, however.

Downside - the airframe seems a little tinnier than a 172. They used thinner exterior skins in some areas as a result of a weight-reduction campaign, and interior trim is typical '70s-era Cessna cheesy plastic. The nose gear is different from that of a 172, and seems to need maintenance a little more often.

If it's a later 177B with the larger wheel and brake fairings, you may see cruise closer to 130 KTAS. The constant-speed prop and Lyc O-360 is a nice combination.
 
Nobody has mentioned it yet, and you might already know it, but if you are considering a Cardinal, you really should join Cardinal Fliers Online. They have a wealth of information about Cardinals, and a daily email digest that is particularly helpful, as well as some advertising listings. Their CFI, Guy Maher, is also an active agent for both buyers and sellers, and might be a good contact.

Wells
(former 177RG owner)
 
N2124v said:
Ok, I am looking at buying a 177B. My main flights will be about 150nm, with some 350nm thrown in. I like the 177B for cruise speed (120kts), cabin space, and the engine. Are there any gotchas I need to look out for? Any advice? I've owned a mooney and 172's in the past, but want something different.
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I'd get the 177RG if I wanted a 200hp single. Best plane for a photo platform.
 
Hemming, I want the gear down and welded. Just one less system to maintain (or break) since I'll be flying into a lot of little fields. Joining Cardnial Flyers is on my to do list, just seeing what others have to say. I really want a king air, but insurance would be a *****.... Thanks everyone.
 
Cardinal's a nice bird.
 
I love Cardinals. If you are serious about one make sure you ask the A&P who does your pre buy to carefully inspect the center spar which I understand can be prone to corrosion.

But again there is something about that plane that just calls me.
 
N2124v said:
Hemming, I want the gear down and welded. Just one less system to maintain (or break) since I'll be flying into a lot of little fields. Joining Cardnial Flyers is on my to do list, just seeing what others have to say. I really want a king air, but insurance would be a *****.... Thanks everyone.
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Fine, with the price of gas though, you'll spend way more on fuel than you will on gear maint in the life of a plane, besides, most people will pay as much having to deal with wheel pants as a retract. The whole argument is specious as best typically held by people who have never owned a retract and are afraid to.
 
Ditto on Cardinal Flyers. I've had a 1974 177B for eight years and am very happy.

W. Stewart said:
Nobody has mentioned it yet, and you might already know it, but if you are considering a Cardinal, you really should join Cardinal Fliers Online. They have a wealth of information about Cardinals, and a daily email digest that is particularly helpful, as well as some advertising listings. Their CFI, Guy Maher, is also an active agent for both buyers and sellers, and might be a good contact.

Wells
(former 177RG owner)
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I just bought into a partnership of a 1976 177B (FG). So far, I love it for all the reasons noted above. For my money, it was hard to beat the price to performance ratio. I hired the guy from Cardinal Flyers to come down from Chicago to Indy check it out first. He's not an A & P, but he really knows the Cardinals, and what trouble spots to look for. The only thing I felt like I really took a risk on was the engine, but the engine was technically run out based on calendar date (although not total hours), and so I assumed that it would need a major overhaul in my analysis. Given the price of my interest, I felt like it was worth it even under that assumption, and any time I can get out of the engine is "found money." So far, the engine runs great, with plenty of power.

The plane I bough into had not been flow much in years prior to my purchase. That is a red flag for engine corrosion. I am no expert, but I am told that that presents a higher risk that the cam lobes and lifters can become worn, thereby reducing the valve movement, and reducing power. You see symptoms of this wear not so much in reduction of top speed, but in fuel efficiency and climb rate. I understand that there can also be corrosion in the cylinders. I will let others more knowledgeable than me elaborate.
 
PPC1052 said:
I just bought into a partnership of a 1976 177B (FG). So far, I love it for all the reasons noted above. For my money, it was hard to beat the price to performance ratio. I hired the guy from Cardinal Flyers to come down from Chicago to Indy check it out first. He's not an A & P, but he really knows the Cardinals, and what trouble spots to look for. The only thing I felt like I really took a risk on was the engine, but the engine was technically run out based on calendar date (although not total hours), and so I assumed that it would need a major overhaul in my analysis. Given the price of my interest, I felt like it was worth it even under that assumption, and any time I can get out of the engine is "found money." So far, the engine runs great, with plenty of power.

The plane I bough into had not been flow much in years prior to my purchase. That is a red flag for engine corrosion. I am no expert, but I am told that that presents a higher risk that the cam lobes and lifters can become worn, thereby reducing the valve movement, and reducing power. You see symptoms of this wear not so much in reduction of top speed, but in fuel efficiency and climb rate. I understand that there can also be corrosion in the cylinders. I will let others more knowledgeable than me elaborate.
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Tell that to my 32 years since OH with only 900 hour engine.
 
EdFred said:
Tell that to my 32 years since OH with only 900 hour engine.
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If time has any effect on metal, why doesn't engine parts have a shelf life?
 
Tom-D said:
If time has any effect on metal, why doesn't engine parts have a shelf life?
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Good question,and I know that I've not had any metal in my filter over the past 3 years.
 
It's not just time, it's the chemical reactions that occur over time.
 
I just bought a Cardinal, and I really like it.

Granted I have very little experience (32 hours), but it flies really nicely, makes good speed, and is a lot of fun to fly.

The two things I was told to be very aware of on the inspection are: the crossover spare. Some corrosion might be ok, but if it needs to be replaced it is a deal killer, and the shimmy dampner, is different from a 172. If your mechanic doesn't know that and treats it like a 172 you will blow it out and have a several thousand dollare replacement.

Like someone else said CFO is an incredible resource for the 177.

-Dan
 
PPC1052 said:
It's not just time, it's the chemical reactions that occur over time.
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And i'm guessing dirty engine oil will, over time have an effect on the rubber and other parts. Also long periods of sitting allows moisture and corrosion to work their magic. You don't have these issues with a part that is sealed in a plastic bag and coated with clean, protective oil.
 
dell30rb said:
And i'm guessing dirty engine oil will, over time have an effect on the rubber and other parts. Also long periods of sitting allows moisture and corrosion to work their magic. You don't have these issues with a part that is sealed in a plastic bag and coated with clean, protective oil.
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True, but looking through the logs, even though the plane wasn't flown much for those 30 years, the oil got changed often.
 
EdFred said:
True, but looking through the logs, even though the plane wasn't flown much for those 30 years, the oil got changed often.
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That may be, and I really hope for the best with my plane, and yours too. I just mention it as an issue to consider. Low use doesn't automatically cause corrosion problems, but I understand that it often does. A purchaser should at least understand this and go in with eyes wide open. That was my only point.
 
PPC1052 said:
That may be, and I really hope for the best with my plane, and yours too. I just mention it as an issue to consider. Low use doesn't automatically cause corrosion problems, but I understand that it often does. A purchaser should at least understand this and go in with eyes wide open. That was my only point.
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Agreed. And luckily for me a lot of people thought that it did, and I got a steal of a deal.
 
Cardinal 177B is my third favorite "certified" plane I've flown. 2nd is a Cardinal RG.. 1st is the Grumman Tiger.

Put a powerflow exhaust on it and get a little more efficiency out of it. Love the space, handling and visibility.
 
When you have to remove the wheel pants to clean the grass and dirt out of them, you'll wish you had the retract!
 
dell30rb said:
When you have to remove the wheel pants to clean the grass and dirt out of them, you'll wish you had the retract!
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That must be before you're laying on your back trying to clean the grass and dirt out of the gear wells because you can't remove them!
 
I have owned a '74 177B for 4 years now. Good bird. If you've got young children or are getting older yourself, there really isn't a better plane. The big door makes getting car seats in and out so nice. Much easier for older people to sit on the seat and swing their legs in than most other planes as well.

Here's a list of things I really like about the Cardinal
- big doors
- roomy interior and baggage area
- great visibility (the wings sits back enough that you can see out in front of the leading edge and can see planes coming down on final while you're holding short of the runway and no lift strut to obstruct the view out when flying)
- good handling and stall characteristics
- very very hard to load the plane out of the cg envelope

My Cardinal has just shy of 900lbs of useful load. With 360lbs of that being fuel when the 60 gallon tanks are full that leaves 540lbs or people and baggage. Some find that very adequate for their mission. We travel quite a bit in the plane and with our 2 kids growing we're finding 900lbs of useful load is not enough for us.

The wing on the Cardinal isn't quite as good as some other Cessna's for short field performance. We regularly visit grass strips and the Cardinal does fine but you need to pay attention to your weight and the TO distances given in the POH. The climb performance isn't real good when fully loaded at higher altitudes but I don't have any other 180hp single experience with which to compare it.

Be sure you have a thorough pre-buy inspection performed by an experienced Cardinal mechanic. I would recommend paying to have the headliner pulled down to properly inspect the carry thru spar. There have only been a few Cardinals that have had spar corrosion issues but you don't want to wind up the proud owner of one that does. It's a very costly repair. The CFO website has technical documentation from Cessna regarding the serviceable limits of the carry thru with regards to corrosion.

There has been a white and silver 1970 177B for sale off and on for 5 or more years in Austin. I went to Austin to look at that plane when I was shopping for a Cardinal. The plane was opened up for annual when I looked at it and it was very rough. If you're looking at that plane I'd make sure you get a very thorough pre-buy done on it. It certainly wasn't a plane that met my standards.

Good luck with your search. Feel free to PM if you have specific questions.
 
EdFred said:
Agreed. And luckily for me a lot of people thought that it did, and I got a steal of a deal.
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Apparently Lycoming does too. Their documentation recommends flying at least 4hrs/mo with minimum of 30 mins cruise time per flight. They say, without this the oil doesn't have time to get to full temperature and burn off the moisture that collects.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Apparently Lycoming does too. Their documentation recommends flying at least 4hrs/mo with minimum of 30 mins cruise time per flight. They say, without this the oil doesn't have time to get to full temperature and burn off the moisture that collects.
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If the airplane resides in the southwest for a lot of its life, there isn't a lot of moisture to collect.
 
If anyone around 52F or DTO is considering a Cardinal purchase, talk to me... it's also on my purchase short list.

(Troy doesn't count... he's having too much fun with the C182RG's :D )
 
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