TEC route below MEA?

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coma24

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coma24
PSPN8 TEC route for pistons: V388 ACINS V283 SLI (10k for pistons).

There's a segment there (ACINS V283) which has an MEA of 10,500.

Other than being cleared direct HDF at or around ACINS (which scrubs V283 for that segment), anyone know how this is commonly handled?

It seems like the only legal choices are to:
- climb higher,
- send direct (to take the MEA out of play) or
- employ 7110.65 4-5-6. (assignment of altitudes below MEA but above the MOCA, in radar environment, after issuing lost comms instructions)

Anyone flown PSPN8 in a piston, and if so, what happened?
 
coma24 said:
PSPN8 TEC route for pistons: V388 ACINS V283 SLI (10k for pistons).

There's a segment there (ACINS V283) which has an MEA of 10,500.

Other than being cleared direct HDF at or around ACINS (which scrubs V283 for that segment), anyone know how this is commonly handled?

It seems like the only legal choices are to:
- climb higher,
- send direct (to take the MEA out of play) or
- employ 7110.65 4-5-6. (assignment of altitudes below MEA but above the MOCA, in radar environment, after issuing lost comms instructions)

Anyone flown PSPN8 in a piston, and if so, what happened?
Click to expand...
Don't know what usually happens, but my guess is the 10,500' MEA is merely a lost comm consideration. In reality, you'll be moving across lower MEA airways, sideways, as you go. I think they'll keep you at 10,000' on your portion of V283.

dtuuri
 
coma - where are you going? From where to where?

This time of year there is zero IFR in the desert and darn little over 3-4000msl . . .

You easily come through the pass at 10,000 on V388 and then hang a left at PDZ.

In the real world you will most likely not fly the TEC over the mountains going to Fullerton or one of the airports on the PSPN8.

If I were going to FUL/SNA I'd expect PSP V388 PDZ vectors. . .

Moreover - the sector from HDF to ACINS has zero terrain under it to 2000' - so the MVA in that area is way lower - and you will need to be in a descent from that point.

As soon as they can descend you - you are likely to get a vector to one of the intersections along V283 or to SLI and then a vector to the appropriate

Don't worry about the altitude there - and if you somehow get there at 10000 - just ask if they expect to go to 10,500 - I somehow think you'll be in a descent to 5000 assigned by then.

I know thats not the answer you want but you will get vectors - guaranteed.
 
coma24 said:
PSPN8 TEC route for pistons: V388 ACINS V283 SLI (10k for pistons).

There's a segment there (ACINS V283) which has an MEA of 10,500.

Other than being cleared direct HDF at or around ACINS (which scrubs V283 for that segment), anyone know how this is commonly handled?
Click to expand...

Hi Keith,

What's the destination airport? We fly this route and variations of the other TEC routes all the time.

coma24 said:
Anyone flown PSPN8 in a piston, and if so, what happened?
Click to expand...

The MVA is lower than the MEA in that area so they just issue 10,000 ft, with radar in operation. Since there is rarely IFR out here, I normally file and pick up airborne over DEWAY or ACINS.
 
TRM to TOA. This MVA is way lower, so they can indeed use 7110.65 4-5-6 to issue lower, but it should theoretically be accompanied by lost comms instructions.

The answer that "they just give you vectors" is completely fine...I'm not at all surprised to hear it.
 
By way of comparison, COMA24, the ONTN12 TEC from eastern LA county to the San Diego area [SEE/RNM/MYF/SAN] has PDZ V168 Haile V66 MZB -

In three years of flying down to one of those airports IFR at least once a month, with about 1/3 resulting in an instrument approach, I have been vectored before reaching ROBNN on V186 every single time.

If you come through the pass IFR at 10,000, and are landing at a coastal airport like TOR, you'll get descended to 6000 as soon as you come through the pass - even thought its almost 60nm to TOR from there. They'll take you to PDZ and then after that give you headings basically causes its easier for them to do that that direct some point - inside 30nm you should have your ATIS - which will likely favor 29 and they begin the vector to the 29R ILS.

I'm thinking that you'll fly:
TRM PSP V388 PDZ SLI Vectors ILS 29R unless you can request a visual . . . 0

Just remember you will get the entire route read to you they will not say Cleared Palm Springs November 12 route" -

While you should be primed to fly the TEC its not likely you'll get the last part of it - .
 
dtuuri said:
Don't know what usually happens, but my guess is the 10,500' MEA is merely a lost comm consideration. In reality, you'll be moving across lower MEA airways, sideways, as you go. I think they'll keep you at 10,000' on your portion of V283.

dtuuri
Click to expand...

They don't build airways with any consideration of 91.185, if that is what you were implying. For some reason, perhaps fix displacement issues, the feds didn't choose to make an MEA change at ACINS for south bounds. They could do so easily, at least for GPS aircraft, with a T route or G overlay.
 
aterpster said:
They don't build airways with any consideration of 91.185, if that is what you were implying.
Click to expand...
No, I meant it would be a consideration of the pilot under 91.185(c)(2)(ii) where he had been given 10,000'.

dtuuri
 
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