Teaching slips

A slip is where you present the side of the plane to the relative wind with the rudder. There are two basic reasons you do this, to increase drag and steepen descent at a given speed, or to slow down if you have excess energy; or to align the longitudinal axis with the runway in a crosswind landing. Either way you "cross control" to lateral drift caused by the rudder application with bank in the other direction.

Stall is an aerodynamic condition where the flow separates and no longer will provide the lift required for controlled flight. This occurs when you achieve an attitude that exceeds the critical Angle of Attack as measured against apparent wind (this means it can potentially happen at any attitude and any speed, although if you're fast enough, you should break the wings or tail off before you stall).
 
Henning said:
A slip is where you present the side of the plane to the relative wind with the rudder. There are two basic reasons you do this, to increase drag and steepen descent at a given speed, or to slow down if you have excess energy; or to align the longitudinal axis with the runway in a crosswind landing. Either way you "cross control" to lateral drift caused by the rudder application with bank in the other direction.

Stall is an aerodynamic condition where the flow separates and no longer will provide the lift required for controlled flight. This occurs when you achieve an attitude that exceeds the critical Angle of Attack as measured against apparent wind (this means it can potentially happen at any attitude and any speed, although if you're fast enough, you should break the wings or tail off before you stall).
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I should have said slip versus cross-control stall.

I had a CFI demonstrate a cross-control stall to me once about 10 years ago, and it left a lasting impression. So the first time my current instructor demonstrated a slip (shedding speed/altitude on final), they seemed to be very similar and all kinds of warning lights went off in my head. I've done slips several times myself since then, but I don't have a good lock in my head on what it takes to turn a slip into a cross-control stall. Obviously one is stalled and the other is not, but I guess I need more details in grade-school format. :redface:

I can't view videos on the network I'm on right now, but I'll be able to later tonight. If you're up for it, I'd love to read a "this is a slip and this is how you turn a slip into a cross-control stall" explanation. If I know how to turn a useful tool into a hair-raising wing drop, I'll be sure to never go there unless I'm at altitude with a CFI that I trust. :yesnod:

On another note, I'll be home for a couple of weeks soon. I was trying to think of something to go do with my CFI for a couple of hours while I'm in the area, and this is looking like a juicy subject for a training flight.
 
A cross controlled stall combines a slip and a stall, it's a non event in most any plane.
 
Henning said:
A cross controlled stall combines a slip and a stall, it's a non event in most any plane.
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So a slip is a cross-control maneuver. A cross-controlled stall is a slip with the angle of attack too great for the speed, hence the stall. Am I saying that right?


It may be just a factor of how new I was to flying 10 years or so ago when the CFI demonstrated a cross-controlled stall to me, but it was a huge event for me. He basically talked me through what would happen to me if I overshot base-to-final and didn't correct properly. He was a bastard, though, and didn't warn me about anything - just "okay pretend you're turning from base to final and you screwed it up, so go ahead and turn a bit tighter ... a bit tighter ... and pull back a bit ... and lets go ahead and push that rudder all the way over there ... and WHOOPS! there went that darned wing! I'll take the airplane now, HAHAHA. Wasn't that fun?!" :yikes:

I had probably all of 2 or 3 hours at the time. This guy was the owner of the flight school and was filling in for the instructor that I had flown with previously. Coincidentally, he mentioned as we were heading to the practice area that a lot of students seemed to quit flying after they flew with him a few times. I tell myself that I stopped taking lessons because I was broke (and that was true) but to be honest, this experience probably made the decision easier. :rolleyes:
 
I thought her name would be SixMamaCharlene.

SixPapaCharlie said:
This morning before work, we got to talking about slips.
I found this great little airplane ornament to illustrate to Mrs. 6PC how they are done.
I covered when and how they are used but it is a bit more challenging to explain some of the concepts.
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islandboy said:
I thought her name would be SixMamaCharlene.
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That's a good question.

When we got married we were pretty traditional so she took my N number. She considered hyphenating but this was less confusing.
There was brief consideration of me taking her N number as her father had no sons but in the end we decided this was best.

Alot of people do it differently I think.
 
Henning said:
Cross control (slip) = safe, exaggerated rudder command (skid)+ low and slow= death. I wish CFIs would get that correct.
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One of the fun things I did was simulate that skidded base to final turn at altitude in a Citabria. It falls out fast.
 
I understand the complexity. A french girl I knew married a guy from Uzbekistan. Her married tail number was F-UK.

SixPapaCharlie said:
That's a good question.

When we got married we were pretty traditional so she took my N number. She considered hyphenating but this was less confusing.
There was brief consideration of me taking her N number as her father had no sons but in the end we decided this was best.

Alot of people do it differently I think.
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Rigged4Flight said:
So a slip is a cross-control maneuver. A cross-controlled stall is a slip with the angle of attack too great for the speed, hence the stall. Am I saying that right?


It may be just a factor of how new I was to flying 10 years or so ago when the CFI demonstrated a cross-controlled stall to me, but it was a huge event for me. He basically talked me through what would happen to me if I overshot base-to-final and didn't correct properly. He was a bastard, though, and didn't warn me about anything - just "okay pretend you're turning from base to final and you screwed it up, so go ahead and turn a bit tighter ... a bit tighter ... and pull back a bit ... and lets go ahead and push that rudder all the way over there ... and WHOOPS! there went that darned wing! I'll take the airplane now, HAHAHA. Wasn't that fun?!" :yikes:

I had probably all of 2 or 3 hours at the time. This guy was the owner of the flight school and was filling in for the instructor that I had flown with previously. Coincidentally, he mentioned as we were heading to the practice area that a lot of students seemed to quit flying after they flew with him a few times. I tell myself that I stopped taking lessons because I was broke (and that was true) but to be honest, this experience probably made the decision easier. :rolleyes:
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Yes, you got that correct.

What your CFI did to you was probably not a cross controlled stall, it was more likely a skidding one which is not cross controlled, it is excess rudder control in the same direction. That is a danger point that many pilots put themselves in in that base to final turn. They are afraid to get the wing down to tighten the turn, so they step on extra rudder to push the tail around. In a skid when you stall, the low wing tucks under the plane and you start rotating right away.
 
Henning said:
Oh, I will buy a cheap bi plane if you want to let me set up the cameras for the crash.:yesnod: I think you captured the true spirit of doing slips.
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Clark1961 said:
You can practice in the 'kota. It's used to the abuse...right now the wings are held on with duct tape (still haven't fixed it after the trip to the Minam lodge). Ya wanna solo it? Duct tape doesn't have a life-limit does it?
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Decisions, decisions . . . .

Which to do first, since I may not get to try the second offer? :lol:
 
Henning said:
Yes, you got that correct.

What your CFI did to you was probably not a cross controlled stall, it was more likely a skidding one which is not cross controlled, it is excess rudder control in the same direction. That is a danger point that many pilots put themselves in in that base to final turn. They are afraid to get the wing down to tighten the turn, so they step on extra rudder to push the tail around. In a skid when you stall, the low wing tucks under the plane and you start rotating right away.
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Yep, that's the one. Scared the bejesus out of me.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
[...] And then we practiced slips and I was scared the whole time.
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IMHO, there is no need to be scared. Quite the contrary, actually. Just keep the nose down and the airspeed up. ;)

For me, slips are one of the most important tools in my skill set and I wonder, why they are not practiced more often. Actually, the flight instructor with whom I did my PPL seemed to feel uncomfortable doing them and apparently considered them to be not much more than an unpleasant but mandatory training requirement.

I promote slips for two reasons.
Firstly, because they allow steep (I mean VERY steep) approaches. This can be useful in various situations. Just think about an emergency landing – you shoot for the middle of the field on which you intend to put down the plane. As soon as you are sure that you will make the field, put in a slip which allows you to actually land more towards the beginning of the field, leaving you with more available ‘runway’ ahead of you. A steep approach can also make the landing on a regular airport safer: To avoid low level wind turbulences, obstacles, geographic features or if ATC keeps you high for longer than you want.

Secondly, I feel that to learn how to slip also improved my landing skills, especially in a crosswind. For a nice slip with a straight course over ground, while maintaining the desired airspeed and descent rate, all controls of the plane must be operated in a coordinated manner. No more lazy feet. Now, if there is a crosswind, somebody who is used to work with the rudder and the ailerons will find it much easier to land with a crab angle, a low wing, a combination of both methods and to also effortlessly transition between them. I, for example, begin my approach in a cross wind situation with a crap angle. On short final, if the crosswind is not too strong, I transition to a low wing approach and keep the nose aligned with the runway with the rudder and also put the plane down in this attitude (watch the airpeed!). If the crosswind is stronger, I still transition to a long wing approach, but also add as much crap angle as required to counter the crosswind. Just before touchdown, I straighten the plane out with the rudder.
I always struggled with crosswind landings – until I began to get a feel for slips.
 
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I love them now. I find them fun.
Just at the time we started training in them, there was no real clarification about why is is all the sudden to fly with the ball way over there.

It was awhile before I knew that skidding was the unsafe one.
 
So, 6PC,

After this "successful" teaching experience, will you or will you not be bringing in a CFI for the next one? :D

David
 
Is it just me or does 6PC look exactly like Ed Fred would look if Ed Fred had hair?
 
dingo balls don't count as hair
 
Rigged4Flight said:
Yep, that's the one. Scared the bejesus out of me.
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On my second lesson we did power on stalls, I didn't carry enough right rudder, and when it stall we went into a spin entry demo, so we had our lesson on spins. Did a couple more to make a clean entry and exit an voila, no more issue, spins in a 152 are now tamed.
 
the first three pages were all legitimate dog toys.
 
Bald and old (according to the android app), I feel I look a lot like James Lipton

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james-liptonnew1.jpg
 
vkhosid said:
Was looking through youtube videos for stalls/spins and stumbled upon this.

Not sure how to embed the video, but the link works just as well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJQsAxB7E4Q
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Embedding is done via "yt" and "/yt" tags between brackets with everything after the v= in it.

So embedding this video would be [yt ]UJQsAxB7E4Q[/yt ] (minus the spaces in the []).
 
overdrive148 said:
Embedding is done via "yt" and "/yt" tags between brackets with everything after the v= in it.

So embedding this video would be [yt ]UJQsAxB7E4Q[/yt ] (minus the spaces in the []).
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The funny thing on an iPad is, what you embedded shows the same as his link.:lol:
 
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