Teach me Garmin 530 and impromptu holds

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
TL;DR - how do you insert a hold at a waypoint into a Garmin 530 flight plan? I know how to do it in the G480 and the GTN’s, but not the 530.

The Story
I have secured a commercial pilot gig flying a Bonanza A36 between North Dallas airports and a few cities in “near” east Texas.

Aircraft is equipped with a Garmin G500, GNS 530/430, and KAP150 auto pilot.

While I have 800+ hours total time, very little is IFR procedures with the 530/430. And what I have done with success were the normal-easy-to-accomplish items, not the oddball. All my other experience is Garmin 480 and GTN, and they can make what happened a walk in park.

Friday, after dropping off a client in Idabel, OK (airport ID 4O4, 4-Oscar-4), I needed to reposition to KSLR.

Because the ceilings across the area were 2000 BRKN, and overcast at KSLR, I filed, 4O4>PRX>SLR, planning for the RNAV 19 approach to KSLR

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2106/05559R19.PDF

I got clearance in the ground and away I went into the clouds and sky.

During the handoff to the ZFW sector controlling KSLR, which was a shade past the PRX VOR, I requested the approach and was told to expect it. The approach was selected, verified as no PT from PRX, and activated.

About 7-8 minutes before WEDAT, the controller advises the aircraft ahead of me hasn’t canceled his IFR yet and to hold as published at WEDAT.

This was my “uh-oh” moment as there wasn’t anything in the flight plan stack to tell the AP to do the turns.

My “creative” plan was to center my heading bug, flip the GPSS to HEADING to keep me going to WEDAT, dump the existing approach out of the stack, and load one in that had the turn. And if that didn’t work, be ready to make the heading knob my new best buddy.

During this, I was thinking there has to be a better way.

But just before this comedy of chaos was to begin at WEDAT, ATC comes back and canceled the hold and clears me to proceed past WEDAT and complete the approach.

So, what is the better way? How do I stuff a hold at a known fix into the flight plan stack where there wasn’t one before?

Moving both directions between KSLR, KPRX, and 4O4 will be a common thing. So I want to know the right and simple solution should what happened Friday come up again
 
AggieMike88 said:
TL;DR - how do you insert a hold at a waypoint into a Garmin 530 flight plan? I know how to do it in the G480 and the GTN’s, but not the 530.

The Story
I have secured a commercial pilot gig flying a Bonanza A36 between North Dallas airports and a few cities in “near” east Texas.

Aircraft is equipped with a Garmin G500, GNS 530/430, and KAP150 auto pilot.

While I have 800+ hours total time, very little is IFR procedures with the 530/430. And what I have done with success were the normal-easy-to-accomplish items, not the oddball. All my other experience is Garmin 480 and GTN, and they can make what happened a walk in park.

Friday, after dropping off a client in Idabel, OK (airport ID 4O4, 4-Oscar-4), I needed to reposition to KSLR.

Because the ceilings across the area were 2000 BRKN, and overcast at KSLR, I filed, 4O4>PRX>SLR, planning for the RNAV 19 approach to KSLR

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2106/05559R19.PDF

I got clearance in the ground and away I went into the clouds and sky.

During the handoff to the ZFW sector controlling KSLR, which was a shade past the PRX VOR, I requested the approach and was told to expect it. The approach was selected, verified as no PT from PRX, and activated.

About 7-8 minutes before WEDAT, the controller advises the aircraft ahead of me hasn’t canceled his IFR yet and to hold as published at WEDAT.

This was my “uh-oh” moment as there wasn’t anything in the flight plan stack to tell the AP to do the turns.

My “creative” plan was to center my heading bug, flip the GPSS to HEADING to keep me going to WEDAT, dump the existing approach out of the stack, and load one in that had the turn. And if that didn’t work, be ready to make the heading knob my new best buddy.

During this, I was thinking there has to be a better way.

But just before this comedy of chaos was to begin at WEDAT, ATC comes back and canceled the hold and clears me to proceed past WEDAT and complete the approach.

So, what is the better way? How do I stuff a hold at a known fix into the flight plan stack where there wasn’t one before?

Moving both directions between KSLR, KPRX, and 4O4 will be a common thing. So I want to know the right and simple solution should what happened Friday come up again
Click to expand...

Push PROC button. Select Approach, yeah, ya already did that before but do it again. You don't have to 'dump' the other approach first. Select WEDAT as transition this time. It will ask ‘Fly Course Reversal at WEDAT. Select Yes. Activate approach. Wait until after PRX to do this. Or if you haven’t passed PRX yet, ask them for Direct WEDAT. How the KAP150 is going to act, I dunno. Based on what I’ve read, King and Garmin don’t always play well with each other. I did this on a Garmin desktop simulator circa 2015. Standby for someone more experienced than me with 530’s for a better answer
 
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I'm still early in my IFR training, but I've been trying to learn the 430/530 buttonology before I need it. There's been a series of webinars for Wings credit covering the topic. Here's one where he discusses various holds, including unpublished holds:

 
Well, if you get a hold as published not on approach, now what?

Just fly the hold (the moving map is more than enough to do this):

1) Press OBS to suspend sequencing before you get to WEDAT
2) Given what you said, your hold was a DIRECT entry. Cross WEDAT, make a turn to the right to 07, fly 4nm away, turn back to the left to 187, fly back to WEDAT. Rinse repeat. Why do you even need the Garmin at this point?
3) When you are ready to leave WEDAT and proceed with the approach, hit the OBS button again to continue sequencing.

That’s all there is really to it. I don’t understand why you need the magenta line for this. Frankly, ATC couldn’t care less how perfect your ovals are provided you stay on the protected side and fly approximately 4nm or 1min legs.

I realize the GTN is nice and allows you to set up arbitrary holds but the fact is you really shouldn’t need it.

NOTE: I’m not trying to be a jerk either. But seriously, this hold was as straight forward as it gets - frankly even in the GTN I’m not sure I would have done much more than the above.
 
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Trogdor said:
Well, if you get a hold as published not on approach, now what?

Just fly the hold (the moving map is more than enough to do this):

1) Press OBS to suspend sequencing before you get to WEDAT
2) Given what you said, your hold was a DIRECT entry. Cross WEDAT, make a turn to the left to 07, fly 4nm away, turn back to the right to 187, fly back to WEDAT. Rinse repeat. Why do you even need the Garmin at this point?
3) When you are ready to leave WEDAT and proceed with the approach, hit the OBS button again to continue sequencing.

That’s all there is really to it. I don’t understand why you need the magenta line for this. Frankly, ATC couldn’t care less how perfect your ovals are provided you stay on the protected side and fly approximately 4nm or 1min legs.

I realize the GTN is nice and allows you to set up arbitrary holds but the fact is you really shouldn’t need it.

NOTE: I’m not trying to be a jerk either. But seriously, this hold was as straight forward as it gets - frankly even in the GTN I’m not sure I would have done much more than the above.
Click to expand...

Left???
 
In your scenario, just reload the approach, choose WEDAT as the transition and, if promoted, yes to the hold.

This task is on my IPC/recurrent short list for a reason.

Edit. I see @luvflyin covered it before me.

The KAP 150? HDG mode for outbound, NAV inbound is the usual mantra when there is no full GPSS.

BTW, even with a GTN, I think this way is quicker than creating an ad hoc hold.
 
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Sorry edited. Serves me right for using my phone to look at the plate.
 
mark.staggs said:
I'm still early in my IFR training, but I've been trying to learn the 430/530 buttonology before I need it. There's been a series of webinars for Wings credit covering the topic. Here's one where he discusses various holds, including unpublished holds:

Click to expand...
Thanks for this link. I thought I had seen all the GNS videos, but this one was new to me.
 
Suppose it's a HILPT that's depicted as part of an RNAV approach? The holding fix may not be identifiable through radials. Even on an ILS, you only have to fly green needles from the FAF to the MAP. You can fly pink needles before the FAF. You can't follow the little pink line on the HILPT?
 
MauleSkinner said:
It’s more than likely not legal to use the map for navigation.
Click to expand...
No point making up extra rules — we have enough of them already. :) For a hold, you have to keep your plane in the protected area at the assigned altitude. That's it, really, unless you lose comms and have to use the EFC time. Forcing new IFR students memorise "hold entries" is little more than a hazing ritual. Use your GPS, a magic 8-ball, or whatever it takes, as long as you stay in the protected area.
 
David Megginson said:
No point making up extra rules — we have enough of them already. :) For a hold, you have to keep your plane in the protected area at the assigned altitude. That's it, really, unless you lose comms and have to use the EFC time. Forcing new IFR students memorise "hold entries" is little more than a hazing ritual. Use your GPS, a magic 8-ball, or whatever it takes, as long as you stay in the protected area.
Click to expand...
One of the rules we have already is that you must comply with the Limitations section of the equipment you’re flying.
 
MauleSkinner said:
One of the rules we have already is that you must comply with the Limitations section of the equipment you’re flying.
Click to expand...
So you're thinking of limitations like this one in my GTN 650 AFMS?

The only approved sources of course guidance are on the external CDI, HSI, or
EHSI display. The moving map and CDI depiction on the GTN display are for
situational awareness only and are not approved for course guidance.
Click to expand...
That could be an interesting discussion, to what extent "course guidance" applies when following a hold. You've been assigned a waypoint and inbound track, so there's a good case for that part, but there's no official "course" per se for the rest of the hold; just a protected area.

With an unpublished hold in an old-fashioned GPS like the GNS 430/530, I'd be inclined to follow the external CDI in OBS mode inbound, then turn until the GPS track readout says on the reciprocal course for outbound (and note the corresponding heading). I'd also probably use the distance readout instead of timing the outbound leg, as I would with a VOR or NDB hold. At the appropriate distance, using the map for verification, I'd do a 180 to re-itercept the inbound course, rinse and repeat. So as long as I'm using the external CDI/HSI for the inbound leg, I'm not sure I'd be violating any limitations by using the map and track/distance readouts for the rest.

(In real life, I have a GTN 650 that will fly the whole unpublished hold, so this is purely a thought experiment.)
 
David Megginson said:
at could be an interesting discussion, to what extent "course guidance" applies when following a hold. You've been assigned a waypoint and inbound track, so there's a good case for that part, but there's no official "course" per se for the rest of the hold; just a protected area.
Click to expand...
I think it's pretty clear that the inbound course and the location of the holding fix are "primary nav" functions but that any assistance we receive for the outbound leg is situational awareness, even if it's a CDI needle or GPSS instructions generated by a GTN or IFD, for exactly the reason you say.

We can also get into semantic niceties about the use of the word "course" when talking about the outbound. I recently saw a big (and silly) argument about that elsewhere. Hopefully we all know that even the outbound leg on a published racetrack shape on an official IFR chart does not depict what the shape will be when you fly it.
 
BTW, although not about a published HILPT, I also entered the ad hoc hold video rally with this video comparing the GNS, GTN, and IFD. Under 10 minutes, the longest segment being the GNS, and the main typo on the thumbnail you see.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Hopefully we all know that even the outbound leg on a published racetrack shape on an official IFR chart does not depict what the shape will be when you fly it.
Click to expand...

Bingo. It really is about staying on the protected side and any hold clearance limitations you may receive (time or distance) than how perfect a circle you draw in the sky.

Coming full circle: Turn right (ha!), wait a minute, turn left, rinse, repeat. All the button pushing seems like a distraction to me outside of maybe OBS? That was really my only point above, i.e even if there was a way to do this on the GNS 400/500 series but it involved a lot of button pushes - why outside of SA?
 
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