Talk Me Out of Upgrading to 6 Seats

[cowman]

Here's my general writeup on the Lance I bought las Jan
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/piper-lance-pa-32r-300-pirep.116986/
Pretty much the same as a Saratoga

The PA-32 Pipers are simple and cheap to maintain, they have a huge cabin. I'm hesitant to say the biggest cabin you can find for the money just because of how many types there are out there but it's the biggest I know of without getting into exponentially more expensive airplanes. It's a family hauler airplane, that's it's best use case and it shines in this area. Useful loads range from around 1300-1500# depending on model but I've seen as high as 1600.

Oh and the guy I bought mine from still flies out of my airport. He bought a Twin Baron, we've heard his family grumbling about the smaller cabin while hanging around the FBO. Your passengers will definitely appreciate the roominess.

Downsides are speed, I've been seeing ~145KIAS on about 16GPH. I can reduce that to 120KIAS on 12GPH. I don't think any PA-32 is FIKI, if it exists it's rare. The flying feel isn't exactly sporty either, but it's still flying.

 

[iamtheari]

Here's my general writeup on the Lance I bought las Jan
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/piper-lance-pa-32r-300-pirep.116986/
Pretty much the same as a Saratoga

The PA-32 Pipers are simple and cheap to maintain, they have a huge cabin. I'm hesitant to say the biggest cabin you can find for the money just because of how many types there are out there but it's the biggest I know of without getting into exponentially more expensive airplanes. It's a family hauler airplane, that's it's best use case and it shines in this area. Useful loads range from around 1300-1500# depending on model but I've seen as high as 1600.

Oh and the guy I bought mine from still flies out of my airport. He bought a Twin Baron, we've heard his family grumbling about the smaller cabin while hanging around the FBO. Your passengers will definitely appreciate the roominess.

Downsides are speed, I've been seeing ~145KIAS on about 16GPH. I can reduce that to 120KIAS on 12GPH. I don't think any PA-32 is FIKI, if it exists it's rare. The flying feel isn't exactly sporty either, but it's still flying.

I know the flying feel you're talking about. The PA-32R-301T I have time in flies like a Suburban, which is a compliment in this context. The RV-14 is my racing motorcycle analogue. I really am shopping for a Suburban analogue.

The problem with the PA-32 family really comes down to the speed and the loading considerations. I think it's a great plane for half the distance, basically going Arrow speeds and range with a much roomier cabin. And that 500-mile range is the sweet spot for GA, so it's no wonder the PA-32 is so popular.

But at 145 knots, 1100 nm takes 7.6 hours of flying, and with the seats full of 4 adults and 2 kids, I think you're only able to carry about 2.3 hours of fuel plus an IFR reserve at the 145 kts/16 gph setting, which means you are making 3 stops on this mission. Slow down to 120 kts/12 gph and you can go maybe 3.4 hours plus an IFR reserve, but you're flying 9.2 hours so you still need 2 stops.

This whole problem really is all my family member's fault for moving. Where they live now, a PA-32 would be the perfect choice. I'm still trying to sabotage the move, but so far to no effect.

 

[iamtheari]

I can agree with that.

Not anywhere near you, but here are some rentals near Chicago

http://www.flytea.com/fleetN311JE.html Aztec
https://www.illinoisaviation.com/product/cessna-421c-1976/ Cessna 421
https://www.illinoisaviation.com/product/piper-aztec/ Aztec
https://www.illinoisaviation.com/product/cessna-210m-1978/ 210

I have a room if you want to huddle down for a bit out here.

Looking into it. Thanks for the links! If all goes well, I will be at Oshkosh with the RV-14 next July and maybe I can stop into Chicago "on the way" back.

 

[MIFlyer]

I know the flying feel you're talking about. The PA-32R-301T I have time in flies like a Suburban, which is a compliment in this context. The RV-14 is my racing motorcycle analogue. I really am shopping for a Suburban analogue.

The problem with the PA-32 family really comes down to the speed and the loading considerations. I think it's a great plane for half the distance, basically going Arrow speeds and range with a much roomier cabin. And that 500-mile range is the sweet spot for GA, so it's no wonder the PA-32 is so popular.

But at 145 knots, 1100 nm takes 7.6 hours of flying, and with the seats full of 4 adults and 2 kids, I think you're only able to carry about 2.3 hours of fuel plus an IFR reserve at the 145 kts/16 gph setting, which means you are making 3 stops on this mission. Slow down to 120 kts/12 gph and you can go maybe 3.4 hours plus an IFR reserve, but you're flying 9.2 hours so you still need 2 stops.

This whole problem really is all my family member's fault for moving. Where they live now, a PA-32 would be the perfect choice. I'm still trying to sabotage the move, but so far to no effect.

Maybe a folding gear PA32? A turbo lance or a later fixed gear Saratoga going 155-160 with 1300 useful? Otherwsie for single, I think you have to go A36 to go fast (or P210)

But an 1100 mile trip with 6 sounds like a twin mission to me

 

[Clip4]

Talk you out of six seats. 8 is better than 6.