Taking off from road

I like the comment from the obvious non-pilot under the video...

goes something like "this is a perfect example of why small planes crash 1000 times more then professional pilots"...

or it could just be the news that brainwashed you..
 
As is often the case, the full story may never be publicly released. Even an investigation can miss a critical point or two unless very sophisticated equipment records the event in question along with instruments, voice recording, etc.. For all we know, the fuel starvation could have been anything from a clogged line, to a leak.

As for the takeoff... I've worked on a flightline before and you usually have wing walkers when in that close proximity of an obstacle and that is just to tow a plane. This was a very unusual circumstance to have to take-off from and any pilot knows, surprizes are avoided as much as possible when flying.

I have close to 900 hours and I can't recall any "close proximity take-off" procedures included in my training

Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, if not for the unusuall situation, then for all the times we forgot to remove all the wheel chocks, or flipped to the wrong departure frequency or screwed the oil cap on so tight we needed pliers to get it off after the flight or forgot to call Clearance delivery before getting in touch with Ground - all of which can happen when one is tired, over-stressed, and over-worked or maybe just a little distracted by an unexpected and unfamiliar event.

But then, I am speaking for those of us who are less than perfect, so what do I know.

:dunno: John
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
Snip

Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, Yeah, we probably should he has a cronic case of cranialrectitis.
Snip


But then, I am speaking for those of us who are less than perfect, so what do I know.

:dunno: John
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.....
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
As is often the case, the full story may never be publicly released. Even an investigation can miss a critical point or two unless very sophisticated equipment records the event in question along with instruments, voice recording, etc.. For all we know, the fuel starvation could have been anything from a clogged line, to a leak.

As for the takeoff... I've worked on a flightline before and you usually have wing walkers when in that close proximity of an obstacle and that is just to tow a plane. This was a very unusual circumstance to have to take-off from and any pilot knows, surprizes are avoided as much as possible when flying.

I have close to 900 hours and I can't recall any "close proximity take-off" procedures included in my training

Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, if not for the unusuall situation, then for all the times we forgot to remove all the wheel chocks, or flipped to the wrong departure frequency or screwed the oil cap on so tight we needed pliers to get it off after the flight or forgot to call Clearance delivery before getting in touch with Ground - all of which can happen when one is tired, over-stressed, and over-worked or maybe just a little distracted by an unexpected and unfamiliar event.

But then, I am speaking for those of us who are less than perfect, so what do I know.

:dunno: John
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Well, there are little screw ups, then there are really big screw ups. This guy used lousy judgement and ran out of fuel. However, he did a great job of using his superior flying skills to land on a road. Once the plane was refueled his superior flying skills failed him when he hit the truck, but he was still using his sub par judgement skills.

To me those mistakes are more severe and have greater consequences than flipping to the wrong frequency.
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, if not for the unusuall situation, then for all the times we forgot to remove all the wheel chocks, or flipped to the wrong departure frequency or screwed the oil cap on so tight we needed pliers to get it off after the flight or forgot to call Clearance delivery before getting in touch with Ground - all of which can happen when one is tired, over-stressed, and over-worked or maybe just a little distracted by an unexpected and unfamiliar event.
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Running out of fuel and then trying to take off without checking to make sure you have enough room is not a little mistake on par with forgetting the well chokes. There is no slack to give he has all he needs and he hung himself with it.
 
Ironically, it was the emergency vehicle that caused the crash. I wonder if it was there when the pilot was making the plan to take-off from the road.
 
The emergency vehicle caused the crash??

The emergency vehicle was stationary with its lights on!

WTF was the pilot doing trying to do a takeoff run w/o getting the truck to move first?
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
As is often the case, the full story may never be publicly released. Even an investigation can miss a critical point or two unless very sophisticated equipment records the event in question along with instruments, voice recording, etc.. For all we know, the fuel starvation could have been anything from a clogged line, to a leak.

As for the takeoff... I've worked on a flightline before and you usually have wing walkers when in that close proximity of an obstacle and that is just to tow a plane. This was a very unusual circumstance to have to take-off from and any pilot knows, surprizes are avoided as much as possible when flying.

I have close to 900 hours and I can't recall any "close proximity take-off" procedures included in my training

Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, if not for the unusuall situation, then for all the times we forgot to remove all the wheel chocks, or flipped to the wrong departure frequency or screwed the oil cap on so tight we needed pliers to get it off after the flight or forgot to call Clearance delivery before getting in touch with Ground - all of which can happen when one is tired, over-stressed, and over-worked or maybe just a little distracted by an unexpected and unfamiliar event.

But then, I am speaking for those of us who are less than perfect, so what do I know.

:dunno: John
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First thing: Welcome to the boards!:)

2nd: The report says "fuel starvation", not 'fuel exhaustion'; so you may be right that he didn't run out of fuel - BUT - if he didn't just 'run-out', why was the only 'performed service' mentioned was that of adding XX gal of fuel??:rolleyes:

I think he pulled a stupid-pilot-trick; there's just no excuse for running out of fuel, AND giving GA another public image black-eye. (Hence, we(I?) cut him very little slack.) :no:

NO MATTER HOW MUCH FUN GA IS, TOTAL CONCENTRATION (serious/professional) IS MANDATORY FOR THE PARTS OF AVIATION THAT CAN KILL YOU (or others...). (i.e. taking off with sufficient fuel, airspeed on final, etc.)

Debate is always welcome - mostly good - and, here anyway, always entertaining/informative!:D
 
Greebo said:
The emergency vehicle caused the crash??

The emergency vehicle was stationary with its lights on!

WTF was the pilot doing trying to do a takeoff run w/o getting the truck to move first?
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IIRC, the people on the ground (and not in the a/c) were trying to get the pilot's attention to not take off until they got the vehicle out of the way so he could take off.

I also believe the reason he was taking off from the road was because he didn't want to have the a/c moved on a trailer, because he was afraid something would happen to it... Oops...
 
And you guys think helicopters are dangerous!

Piston helicopter, you get low on fuel, you land at a gas station, take on some 93 octane mogas (which Lycomings run on just fine, and there's even an STC for Robinsons, which is nothing more than a placard), and then you take off again. No ground roll, no whacking into trucks :yes:

No wonder I don't fly them arr-planes no more :D
 
Greebo said:
The emergency vehicle caused the crash??

The emergency vehicle was stationary with its lights on!

WTF was the pilot doing trying to do a takeoff run w/o getting the truck to move first?
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I meant that the emergency vehicle was the object which was struck in the crash. Pilot error, as usual, was the cause.
 
So, uh, anyone actually read the NTSB report before you started bashing the guy as a "OMG MORON PILOT!!"??

Here's the synopsis, in my own words:

  • He had a fuel issue (cause unknown)
  • He tried to get the plane towed out on a flatbed truck to avoid having a problem, 3 times. All 3 times, the wheels were too wide to fit on the flatbed truck.
  • He coordinated with the local police to clear traffic off the road
  • On his takeoff roll, he barely clipped the edge of the mirror of the rear truck
  • That little clip sent him just far enough off track to nail the backend of the emergency vehicle
  • He spun out of control

No one was injured, many precautions were taken. It appears the police gave him the idea of getting fuel and taking off from the road. Had he been less than 1/2" further to the left, he would have missed the mirror and been fine.

I don't judge this guy as a moron for his actions after the landing. Depending on what caused the fuel situation, I might call him a moron for that.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
And you guys think helicopters are dangerous!

Piston helicopter, you get low on fuel, you land at a gas station, take on some 93 octane mogas (which Lycomings run on just fine, and there's even an STC for Robinsons, which is nothing more than a placard), and then you take off again. No ground roll, no whacking into trucks :yes:

No wonder I don't fly them arr-planes no more :D
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That's kinda cool when I think about it...

Then I picture the rotors clipping the shelter over the gas pump, me falling sideways onto the crowd of onlookers below...

Ugh. Seems less cool now.
 
Dr. Bill said:
That's kinda cool when I think about it...

Then I picture the rotors clipping the shelter over the gas pump, me falling sideways onto the crowd of onlookers below...

Ugh. Seems less cool now.
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Landing in confined areas comes with the territory. What's important is to fly at least a high recon pass then a low recon pass to look for obstacles like wires before committing to a landing. Sometimes the only way in and out is a vertical landing and takeoff. Not the safest of maneuvers if something breaks, but then again, beats hell out of slamming into wires (or gas station shelters) :D
 
Dr. Bill said:
NO MATTER HOW MUCH FUN GA IS, TOTAL CONCENTRATION (serious/professional) IS MANDATORY FOR THE PARTS OF AVIATION THAT CAN KILL YOU (or others...). (i.e. taking off with sufficient fuel, airspeed on final, etc.)

Debate is always welcome - mostly good - and, here anyway, always entertaining/informative!:D
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It's easy to pressure yourself into stupid pilot tricks when you are wanting to attend a certain event or get home by a certain time. I'm sure we've all done some stupid pilot tricks we hopefully will never do again like taking off into complete darkness on an unlit strip with unlit terrain. :)
 
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Hehehe.... I get it...

I'm pretty current and proficient at just such things - so it wasn't a big deal to me, but your point is VERY valid and well-taken!

(He's poking fun of my night departure from Gaston's)

Always nice to hear from you, Sir Jesse!
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
As is often the case, the full story may never be publicly released. Even an investigation can miss a critical point or two unless very sophisticated equipment records the event in question along with instruments, voice recording, etc.. For all we know, the fuel starvation could have been anything from a clogged line, to a leak.

As for the takeoff... I've worked on a flightline before and you usually have wing walkers when in that close proximity of an obstacle and that is just to tow a plane. This was a very unusual circumstance to have to take-off from and any pilot knows, surprizes are avoided as much as possible when flying.

I have close to 900 hours and I can't recall any "close proximity take-off" procedures included in my training

Perhaps we should cut the man a little slack, if not for the unusuall situation, then for all the times we forgot to remove all the wheel chocks, or flipped to the wrong departure frequency or screwed the oil cap on so tight we needed pliers to get it off after the flight or forgot to call Clearance delivery before getting in touch with Ground - all of which can happen when one is tired, over-stressed, and over-worked or maybe just a little distracted by an unexpected and unfamiliar event.

But then, I am speaking for those of us who are less than perfect, so what do I know.

:dunno: John
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This was a guy who was told "Hang on and I'll move the truck" and didn't wait.... Sorry, I remember when this one happenned, the guy was a full twit.
 
This guy is local to me here at my parents' house. He lost his certificate as a result of this incident.
 
permanently? or just a 90 or 180 day or something?
 
jdwatson said:
I missed the mirror strike... good eye !
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I missed the mirror strike too

But gosh, If the authorities close the road for him to take off, couldn't they at least get the vehicles off the closed road too?
 
bjohnson said:
I missed the mirror strike too

But gosh, If the authorities close the road for him to take off, couldn't they at least get the vehicles off the closed road too?
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They tried...he declined to wait.
 
jesse said:
It's easy to pressure yourself into stupid pilot tricks when you are wanting to attend a certain event or get home by a certain time.
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Or you're tired of running away from all the *%(*@%@ reporters. :mad:
 
I have been at RDU and witnessed that "small-error" of forgetting to remove the chock. On one occassion, the pilot apparently thought his plane required more power which shot the plane straight out of the chocks and into some parked planes. The pilot stopped the plane just shy of an accident occuring.

I said that to say the size of an error seems to be based on your perception which is skewed by the results of that error but each error, given the right situation can be huge and even life-threatening. So what converts a mistake to a moron by your definition because from where I'm sitting your human (having not met you I assume this) and therefore flawed yourself. What level of stress would it take for you to make a moronic error?

B)John
 
Tuskeegee's_Heritage said:
I have been at RDU and witnessed that "small-error" of forgetting to remove the chock. On one occassion, the pilot apparently thought his plane required more power which shot the plane straight out of the chocks and into some parked planes. The pilot stopped the plane just shy of an accident occuring.

I said that to say the size of an error seems to be based on your perception which is skewed by the results of that error but each error, given the right situation can be huge and even life-threatening. So what converts a mistake to a moron by your definition because from where I'm sitting your human (having not met you I assume this) and therefore flawed yourself. What level of stress would it take for you to make a moronic error?

B)John
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Well, in this case "moronic" was a situation of attitude. He wouldn't give it two minutes for the people to move the trucks out of the way. Moronic isn't an incident, moronic is an attitude.
 
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