Takeoff with full fuel all the time?

[azure]

If I was going to add anything to my airplane, it would be a fuel totalizer, and exactly for the reason Lance says. I've never gone more than 4 hours (tach) between fuel stops -- to me that's the terra incognito of my fuel regime, never having drained them to measure how much they will actually hold, and not really trusting Cessna's specs. Based on spec and average fuel consumption of about 11 gph, I could get down to just under 5 hours and still have legal day VFR reserves -- but I've never flown that close to the edge in any airplane and don't have any desire to start now, much less in one whose actual fuel capacity I'm not really sure of, and without knowing my exact rate of burn

With all the toys Tom put in his plane, that's the one thing I'm surprised he didn't add. It's not as if he didn't care about engine ops, he added an EDM-700 and I believe the totalizer is an optional add-on to it. But he didn't even have a dipstick for his tanks, relying on the clock and known fuel consumption rates (and of course, assuming no leaky fuel cap or other unknowns). After 2.5 tach hours or so you can't see the fuel level anymore. I will probably at least buy the Sporty's universal dipstick eventually, I just don't care for the thought of running a tank dry to calibrate it.

 

[dmccormack]

With all the toys Tom put in his plane, that's the one thing I'm surprised he didn't add. It's not as if he didn't care about engine ops, he added an EDM-700 and I believe the totalizer is an optional add-on to it. But he didn't even have a dipstick for his tanks, relying on the clock and known fuel consumption rates (and of course, assuming no leaky fuel cap or other unknowns). After 2.5 tach hours or so you can't see the fuel level anymore. I will probably at least buy the Sporty's universal dipstick eventually, I just don't care for the thought of running a tank dry to calibrate it.

Just run one tank dry and be ready to switch from that tank to the one with fuel.

I've used a wooden dowel -- most times you can see where it's wet,

 

[swingwing]

With a 172, a wife,two daughters and a dog. I am always negotiating for less baggage :wink2:, therefore I usual just carry the fuel I need for the flight. The exception is when I am filing IFR, then I take on as much fuel as I can carry. Going missed and being put in a hold is plenty of fun. I don't need more excitement doing it on empty tanks.

 

[LearDriver]

We normally never fly legs that run more than 90 minutes in the Dakota. In the summer we keep the tanks at tabs and in the winter we top it off. Our summers out west just drive the DA too high to mess with with full fuel.

I do prefer to have at least 90 minutes of fuel remaining at the destination.

 

[Clark1961]

It's amazing what DA does to your performance!

Ya know, In the Dakota I just don't see the huge DA hit that folks talk about. :wink2: Of course, I also hope I never see the turbo crap out...

(sez he who climbed out of Leadville at ~1,000 fpm. on a July morning)

 

[murphey]

I will probably at least buy the Sporty's universal dipstick eventually, I just don't care for the thought of running a tank dry to calibrate it.

Don't need to run a tank dry. Fly until you're ready to fill the tanks. Park on a level surface then drain one tank. I keep four 5-gal buckets - those paint buckets - you can buy them for almost nothing at a big-box store. Slosh some fuel to clean them out really good, then keep a lid on them to keep them clean - I keep them in the hangar because there are times I need to empty one or both tanks (most recently, had to replace the fuel tank lever on the cherokee). Learned this trick from the shop. If you're not happy with pouring fuel from the bucket back into the tank, there are fuel filters you can get for almost nothing.

Empty a tank. Then take a 1 gallon bucket (a really clean water jug - clean it just like the buckets then dry really well) and fill in 1 gal increments. Each time you add a gallon, check the All-Purpose-Universal-Fuel Gauge Dipstick and mark it in whatever metric you prefer.

 

[murphey]

Ya know, In the Dakota I just don't see the huge DA hit that folks talk about. :wink2: Of course, I also hope I never see the turbo crap out...

(sez he who climbed out of Leadville at ~1,000 fpm. on a July morning)

You got a working airplane yet? Is Ron charging you rent to store it in the shop? I haven't been over to the shop this week to see if the Dakota is still over there.

 

[timwinters]

I just don't care for the thought of running a tank dry to calibrate it.

Liz,

Dry tanking is no big deal. I do it on nearly every cross country flight. Dry tanking adds 4.5 gallons useable to my 55 gallons. Sure, the engine sputters, & if this comes at a time when I'm not paying attention then my heart will skip a beat, but it adds an additional margin of safety to each flight.

I added a fuel flow meter (E.I.) a couple of years ago and I love it. It's simply another tool to help increase a flight's safety. Also, with it, the engine doesn't even sputter when I'm dry tanking because the fuel flow will start to "wag out" before the engine sputters.

 

[azure]

Don't need to run a tank dry. Fly until you're ready to fill the tanks. Park on a level surface then drain one tank. I keep four 5-gal buckets - those paint buckets - you can buy them for almost nothing at a big-box store. Slosh some fuel to clean them out really good, then keep a lid on them to keep them clean - I keep them in the hangar because there are times I need to empty one or both tanks (most recently, had to replace the fuel tank lever on the cherokee). Learned this trick from the shop. If you're not happy with pouring fuel from the bucket back into the tank, there are fuel filters you can get for almost nothing.

Empty a tank. Then take a 1 gallon bucket (a really clean water jug - clean it just like the buckets then dry really well) and fill in 1 gal increments. Each time you add a gallon, check the All-Purpose-Universal-Fuel Gauge Dipstick and mark it in whatever metric you prefer.

I like this idea best of all. I'll have to check with the local management though, I think it's against the lease agreement to have fuel out in the open in or near the hangars. They might allow it as a one-time thing though, especially if done under supervision. If not, there's other fields to do it at.

And yeah, Tim, I know the engine should come alive again when you switch to the other tank, it's just the thought of "what if it doesn't", and believe me even if I'm expecting it my heart will skip when it happens. If it turned out to be the only way, though, of course I'd do it, though I'd probably take an instructor along just in case.

 

[Henning]

So now that I've actually started flying with a purpose and somewhat of a time-frame... and spending 15 minutes filling up basically everytime I fly more than an hour... I am wondering how much fuel I should carry around?

Examples:
I73-PKB, it was about 1:10 in the air (good tailwind). The 172 I fly I see about 8gph. Full tanks when I took off (38 usable). So lets say I used 9 gallons; with 29 remaining.

The return flight later today, with the headwind, looks to be about 1:30. 12 gallons burned, with 17 remaining. The 17 should provide 2 hours of flight time, well within the 45 minute reserve I'll need this evening.

thoughts? how many folks always top off the tanks when you spend more than an hour or so in the air?

thanks,

Mike

I top off "most of the time" because most of my missions will require full fuel, often multiple times. If I am flying say from Long Beach to Corona, no, as long as I have sufficient fuel & reserves for the intended flight I won't top up. There are advantages to not carrying more fuel than you need to have, increased performance and economy is a biggie, not having 25 extra gallons of fuel when you get in an accident is another. With a twin it can mean the difference between flying out and going in on an engine failure. This is also why I consider a fuel totalizer as required equipment.

 

[murphey]

I like this idea best of all. I'll have to check with the local management though, I think it's against the lease agreement to have fuel out in the open in or near the hangars. They might allow it as a one-time thing though, especially if done under supervision. If not, there's other fields to do it at.

I think there are federal (possibly state) rules about dealing with fuel. I know every airport I've visited (including where I'm based) there is no fueling from the truck when the airplane is inside the hangar. Static electricity and vapors. However, on the rare times I need fuel from the truck, the only requirement is to pull the airplane out of the hangar.

And that's why the rare times (and short time) I have fuel in the buckets they are covered and far away from anything else. I'm on an end hangar, and the south wall is brick block, so I put the buckets outside at the wall while the A&P is working on the airplane. Couple hours later, we put the fuel back in the airplane.

So I'm guessing that as long as you do this outside the hangar there's not going to be a big issue. Is there a distance requirement that you must maintain for fueling, e.g. "open or near the hangars"?

 

[azure]

So I'm guessing that as long as you do this outside the hangar there's not going to be a big issue. Is there a distance requirement that you must maintain for fueling, e.g. "open or near the hangars"?

I don't remember the exact wording and I'm too lazy right now to dig it out. What I seem to recall was something to the effect that you couldn't have fuel near the hangars (though it could have just been "in" instead of near) in anything other than your airplane. There isn't even an FBO on the field with a fuel truck that services the tenants for that wording to interfere with. But I could be misremembering the rule; again, I'll have to look it up before I make final plans on how to do this.

 

[gismo]

I don't remember the exact wording and I'm too lazy right now to dig it out. What I seem to recall was something to the effect that you couldn't have fuel near the hangars (though it could have just been "in" instead of near) in anything other than your airplane. There isn't even an FBO on the field with a fuel truck that services the tenants for that wording to interfere with. But I could be misremembering the rule; again, I'll have to look it up before I make final plans on how to do this.

At my airport the FBOs won't fuel a plane in the hangar but they will pump fuel into my plane as long as the wings (containing the plane's tanks) are beyond the door's threshold. I don't see much of a safety advantage in poking the nose and wings outside but as long as they think it's fine, I go along. I do generally leave the tug attached so I could move it further out should a fire occur but I wouldn't normally be able to get very far due to the fuel truck blocking my path.