Taiwan twin engine crash. Did one engine flameout or two?

RotorAndWing said:
Not sure in what context your military cadet comment is about, but in flight training pushing someone to a breaking point is negative training and entirely inappropriate in aviation training.

Airline training is a systematic approach using CRM and ADM as well as Risk Management. System and Procedures knowledge with high standardization will get a competent crew through most any abnormal or emergency situation.

One of the huge problems in Asia with their training is CRM is non-existant, systems knowledge is lacking and they simply don't teach ADM or RM. The "Instructors" love to play "pile it on till they break" in the sim, and never actually teach anything.
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Not sure? probably why only a certain percentage make it and get their wings. Been this way for many many years. The military does this to try and weed out the Colgan types but are not always successful. It's also why airlines used to try and have a majority of their pilots be ex military. Better trained in most instances and better OJT. not to mention that the current military pilot usually has a better education before he or she ever starts training.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Not sure? probably why only a certain percentage make it and get their wings. Been this way for many many years.
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There is a huge difference between the military "weeding" out applicants and professional flight training.

Jimmy cooper said:
The military does this to try and weed out the Colgan types but are not always successful.
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The military certainly has their fair share, as does civilian, etc.

Jimmy cooper said:
It's also why airlines used to try and have a majority of their pilots be ex military. Better trained in most instances and better OJT.
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Having been in a professional training environment (airlines) I can tell you the above statement is not necessarily true.

Jimmy cooper said:
not to mention that the current military pilot usually has a better education before he or she ever starts training.
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Define "better education". A degree such as an Aeronautics BS or American Literature is not going to produce a "better pilot".

This "military vs civilian" debate goes on and on, truth is both sides have their successes as well as failures. In today's world it's not even worth mentioning anymore.

BTW, the majority of the Captains and FO's in the various Asian Airlines are of military background. This certainly has done nothing to improve safety in that region, in fact, it has hampered it.
 
dell30rb said:
Yes the colgan crash was a classic, textbook case. Clearly the result of inexperienced pilots with fresh instrument tickets.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I know the media made a big deal about the first officers lack of rest, but she was not the pilot flying at the time of the crash, The captain was and for some reason he allowed the airspeed to decay after they lowered the gear. Maybe fatigue, could have been distracted? I have also read that the captain spent quite a bit of time during the approach chatting it up with the first officer, maybe that had something to do with how he let the airpseed decay.

If you watch the NTSB video on youtube you can see he never advanced the throttles after gear extension. Now I have never flown a plane anywhere near that size or even any retract but I would imagine it would not take long at all to loose airspeed if you don't increase power after gear extension.
 
FastEddieB said:
On another forum, there was rampant speculation about a specific accident. What links in a chain and/or pilot error or mechanical failure may have led to it, that sort of thing. Though that particular forum is more polite (which others here deem "PC") and I don't recall a lot of name calling.



Fact remains, though seriously injured the pilot survived. Turns out the "accident" was a failed suicide attempt.



1) That kind of rendered pages of premature speculation moot - and entirely off base, and,



2) The surviving pilot was treated with sympathy and respect.



What some here would call PC, I call basic human decency.
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I believe you're referring to the recent crash on Rabbit Ears Pass here in CO?

The only speculation I recall was that the pass claimed another unsuspecting pilot. For those of us that live here and have watched that pass eat airplanes and pilots our whole lives, it's not an unreasonable observation and not a joking matter.

And #2 was flat wrong. Dude lost his kid and then put numerous rescuers lives in not insignificant danger to pull his ass out. I have zero tolerance nor respect for that.

If you want to off yourself, do it in a way that does not endanger he lives of others in the process, if you fail.

(I've stated my view on suicide matches my father's, "Well, at least they made a decision." Probably in SZ somewhere before I turned it off. Just restating it here for clarity.)

It'd be great if he didn't wreck another of the dwindling light aircraft fleet in the process too. But oh well.

Do I have empathy for him? Not at all. Life is good. Even losing a kid or another loved one, it's still good.

Want out of life? Fine. Your call. I respect that. Go do it in the garage with the car or something. Don't make a bunch of people risk injury, death, frostbite, hell even a hangnail to come find your sorry ass in the snowy mountains. At night.

Rescuers here have gotten killed looking for others or even after finding them and working to get them out, especially at night, around here. Once you've seen that happen your attitude on someone purposefully wrecking an airplane in the back country drops to zero respect or even anger.

Not a whit of sympathy for someone who put other's lives at risk at a botched suicide attempt. Not even a tiny bit.
 
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FastEddieB said:
No.



Linked to a few posts back.



http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=2f70b5c1-1a22-40d6-9d65-9c2000c6d426



So I doubt most of your post addresses this particular case.



As I said, I would not expect either sympathy or understanding of the depths of depression that could lead one to suicide from some on this site.



The other site seems more compassionate overall.
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Hmm. An ANN link. I won't be clicking on that idiot's website.

I'll have to take your word for it that there's compassionate people posting on that psycho's website and helping him maintain some semblance of false legitimacy as an aviation "maven".

Or whatever he thinks he is these days.
 
mikea76 said:
I know the media made a big deal about the first officers lack of rest, but she was not the pilot flying at the time of the crash, The captain was and for some reason he allowed the airspeed to decay after they lowered the gear.
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Doesn't matter who was PF. They BOTH allowed the airspeed to decay.

But Ren's point was that both pilots were well over the new ATP minimums and were hardly inexperienced with fresh IR tickets.
 
RotorAndWing said:
There is a huge difference between the military "weeding" out applicants and professional flight training.



The military certainly has their fair share, as does civilian, etc.



Having been in a professional training environment (airlines) I can tell you the above statement is not necessarily true.



Define "better education". A degree such as an Aeronautics BS or American Literature is not going to produce a "better pilot".

This "military vs civilian" debate goes on and on, truth is both sides have their successes as well as failures. In today's world it's not even worth mentioning anymore.

BTW, the majority of the Captains and FO's in the various Asian Airlines are of military background. This certainly has done nothing to improve safety in that region, in fact, it has hampered it.
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Agreed on all counts........
 
Fearless Tower said:
Doesn't matter who was PF. They BOTH allowed the airspeed to decay.
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Wasn't there a third pilot (check airman) in the jumpseat?

(I've only read that through one source and haven't been able to follow up. The site suggested 16,000 hours in the jumpseat.)
 
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