Tailwheel time!

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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3Green
It's cooled off a bit here in Dallas/Fort Worth (finally!). Time to celebrate a little.

I just scheduled my first taildragger lesson (!) for this Saturday (9/2) at noon, in the Citabria at 52F. It's the most affordable plane they have there, I'm due for my BFR by December, it's starting to cool off, so why not!? I need to get 10 hours dual in it before I can take it solo.

So, what do I need to know about the Citabria? I have ZERO tailwheel time... I asked if there was anything I needed to read over before arrival, and the dispatch lady said "no". I'm throwing a fit, because I WANT something to read or study before I go for the lesson... figured you guys could point me towards something.

MarcAir Aviation said:
1978 Bellanca 7GCBC Citabria

N50340.jpg


N50340 With our Citabria we provide basic Spin Endorsements and Tailwheel Endorsements. It is perhaps one of the most docile taildraggers - excellent for the training environment.
Click to expand...
 
Troy Whistman said:
So, what do I need to know about the Citabria? I have ZERO tailwheel time... I asked if there was anything I needed to read over before arrival, and the dispatch lady said "no". I'm throwing a fit, because I WANT something to read or study before I go for the lesson... figured you guys could point me towards something.
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Well, I figure Langewiesche 's Stick and Rudder has got to have some good advice in it! Amazon says it has the following:
The "tail-dragger" landing gear and what's tricky about it. This is probably the only analysis of tail-draggers now available to those who want to fly one.
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Troy Whistman said:
I asked if there was anything I needed to read over before arrival, and the dispatch lady said "no". I'm throwing a fit, because I WANT something to read or study before I go for the lesson... figured you guys could point me towards something.
Click to expand...

Here's some material about taildraggers for you to read TW:
All the horror stories you've heard about taildraggers are true.
 
gprellwitz said:
Well, I figure Langewiesche 's Stick and Rudder has got to have some good advice in it! Amazon says it has the following:
Click to expand...

I used to have a copy of that in my library... I lent it to somebody and never got it back... I need to pick up a new copy. I'll check my local public library first!
 
Troy,

Nothing you will read will prepare you for that first lesson. After a couple, you will understand the meaning behind the words in those references above. The biggest epiphany you need to have is that your feet need to be dancing on the pedals. Typical transition problem is the pilot stabs the pedals weak and late. Worry about getting past that and training yourself to feel slip/skid in the seat of your pants. Until that's accomplished, those reading materials are irrelevant, IMO.
 
Ken Ibold said:
Troy,

Nothing you will read will prepare you for that first lesson. After a couple, you will understand the meaning behind the words in those references above. The biggest epiphany you need to have is that your feet need to be dancing on the pedals. Typical transition problem is the pilot stabs the pedals weak and late. Worry about getting past that and training yourself to feel slip/skid in the seat of your pants. Until that's accomplished, those reading materials are irrelevant, IMO.
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Ken, I think you're probably right... I'll just go enjoy the experience.

I found several accounts of learning to fly taildraggers by googling "flying the citabria". Here's one: http://www.john-a-harper.com/flying/tailwheel.htm
 
Oh, Troy, one thing to ask your instructor that might be helpful. While you sit in the airplane, have him lift the tail off the ground with the handle on the empennage to takeoff attitude. Look at the sight picture. This will help reduce your fear of having a prop strike when you lift the tail on the takeoff roll. The airplane seems like it's going into a negative angle of attack the first few times, with certain doom awaiting.
 
Troy Whistman said:
It's the most affordable plane they have there, I'm due for my BFR by December, it's starting to cool off, so why not!? I need to get 10 hours dual in it before I can take it solo.
Click to expand...
Troy, I'm excited for you! You're gonna have fun! :)

Troy Whistman said:
So, what do I need to know about the Citabria? I have ZERO tailwheel time... I asked if there was anything I needed to read over before arrival, and the dispatch lady said "no". I'm throwing a fit, because I WANT something to read or study before I go for the lesson... figured you guys could point me towards something.
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I understand your wanting to know all that you can before you go. I was that way too before my first TW lesson. I bought a video and read some books beforehand. It didn't really seem to help me much though. :D

I was rather surprised at what happened on the take-off roll. First I headed for one side of the runway, then when I raised the tail I headed for the other side of the runway. I didn't know that was going to happen. :redface: Someone called that "chasing rabbits" in an article I read somewhere.

I used to have a bunch of TW articles in my bookmarks, but lost them last time my computer crashed. I found a few on AOPA...if you're a member I'll send you the links.

There are a couple of TW articles on AvWeb, too if you're interested.

You might want to post your question over on the Citabria forum as well:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CitabriaPilots/

I've also seen some good discussions on tailwheel flying over at sp.com, where they have a tailwheel section:

http://www.studentpilot.com/interact/forum/index.php?s=

I know that you will enjoy flying the Citabria. But, if you get frustrated with your landings, I will send you a short clip of one of my bounced landings if it will make you feel better. :D
 
Personally, I'm a big fan of Taildragger Tactics by Sparky Imeson...Good, practical tailwheel flying information, as well as a lot of stuff that you either weren't taught or maybe forgot about flying light planes in general.

Amazon doesn't have it, but Sporty's does...
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=19&Product_ID=6818

Have fun!

David
 
If you have a chance to fly another plane before the Saturday lesson, concentrate on landing with zero sideslip. When you attempt to takeoff or land the Citabria, try to convince yourself to apply rudder somewhat agressively but briefly, removing the foot pressure shortly after applying it and well before the airplane returns to the desired heading on the runway. A very common mistake is to allow the rudder and tailwheel to remain deflected way too long causing an overshoot in the opposite direction. IOW the most common overcontrolling problem isn't too much rudder it's holding the rudder too long. You must release the pressure at the first sign of any decrease in the initial turn away from the centerline that you were trying to correct for. In general, I think it's best to simply release before you can tell that there was any effect. If you actually end up pushing for too short a time, you can just push it (briefly) again.

Perhaps you can get the CFI to allow you to taxi at progressively faster speeds down the runway without taking off. IMO this is a much faster way to acquire the feel of maintaining heading on the ground than trying to land.
 
Anticipate. Anticipate. Anticipate.

Ken and others can tell you that in some taildraggers (the Pitts for example), reacting to what's happened is too little too late. It takes a few hours of landings to get it, but those who can anticipate what the airplane is going to do seem to have much less trouble flying tailwheel airplanes.

Three things I tell my tailwheel students:
1) Try to learn to anticipate what the airplane is about to do (did I mention that already?)
2) If you make a bad landing don't be discouraged. It takes a while and if you stay with it you'll get it.
3) If you make a good landing don't get complacent. Even a blind pig can find an acorn.

Flying a tailwheel airplane is one of the most rewarding types of flying I do. It's great fun and a real sense of accomplishment. But for most of us it takes a little time to un-learn some of the bad habits the C172 has taught us. Relax, enjoy, learn.

Please do keep us posted.
 
gibbons said:
1) Try to learn to anticipate what the airplane is about to do (did I mention that already?)
2) If you make a bad landing don't be discouraged. It takes a while and if you stay with it you'll get it.
3) If you make a good landing don't get complacent. Even a blind pig can find an acorn.
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Amen Chip! All of the recent TW flying I have done is in the Super Cub. Through the summer my first 3 landings of the day would totally suck as I would go a month or more between flying it. Now that I am back in town full time, I have been getting lots of calls during the week to come out and do a tow or two and that has gotten me pretty proficient, which I like of course. Plus I dont bounce landings to often, especially when the rest of the glider club is watching!
 
It flys just like any other machine, so learn to TAXI, -------- really fast.

tail up taxi practice. add a little power and she'll fly away
 
Troy Whistman said:
Ken, I think you're probably right... I'll just go enjoy the experience. ....
Click to expand...

Troy-

You've gotten some good words... reading those books gives you a good perspective. If you would le tme throw my two cents in...

1) Use your feet... you don't dance on the rudder pedals you use them to keep the nose straight (or pointed where you want it to go). This is easier said than done... so far you've used your feet to taxi with... don't overcontrol, but then again don't undercontrol
2) Your sight reference will be different... the Citabria doesn't inhibit forward vision as much as most taildraggers... but you do not use your forward vision to judge height above runway... or alignment... you use your peripheral vision.... this is a VERY hard thing to do for most tri-cycle gear pilots
3) Don't bring your 'other' airplane tachniques with you (such as flare)... the biggest problem I have is teaching guys to drive it to the runway before the flare... you'll run out of energy early... which is bad
4) Taildraggers, light ones, are energy airplanes... learn to judge it with your eye and your feel... you should be able to fly the airplane without reference to an altimeter or airspeed indicator... how do you add energy to the airplane?
5) You fly the airplane until you park it... taxi with the stick back ALL the time
6) If you bounce... add energy (power)... or when you run out and come down again you'll really bounce... there is nothing wrong with going around after a bounce
7) Wheel landings... release the back pressure on the stick

These are not intuitive things to do when you transition from tri to tailwheel... When I teach I usually start with wheel landings... and then the 3pt is exactly the same except for the flare/touchdown technique.

Remember, tailwheels ARE more fun. Just south of Fort Worth...
 
NC19143 said:
It flys just like any other machine, so learn to TAXI, -------- really fast.

tail up taxi practice. add a little power and she'll fly away
Click to expand...

My guy had me do that the first 10 takeoff or so, put in 2200rpm or so, fly the tail, and keep rolling tail up the whole way down the runway. Towards the end, smooth advance to full power and smooth pull on the stick, and away we went.

I *need* to go fly some more tailwheel...
 
Scott 'Gunny' Perdue said:
You fly the airplane until you park it... taxi with the stick back ALL the time
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I got my butt chewed once for taxiing with the stick back with a tailwind.

I was getting checked out in a CJ-6A a while back and the guy (non-TW pilot) kept asking me why I had the stick back on the ground so much. Old habits are hard to break... on the ground when the stick is in my hand, it automatically goes back. He finally understood when he checked out another TW pilot who did the same thing.
 
Hi Troy
Thats why I got my tailwheel also had a BFR due so I did it in a Citibra, what a blast. It made flying fun again. Its alot of work but its worth it. As my CFI would always tell me keep that stick in your belly.

Good Luck Mike
 
flykelley said:
As my CFI would always tell me keep that stick in your belly.
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FYI, as a matter of courtesy, I always (well, almost always, but that's another story) warn people in the back seat (especially men) when I get ready to pull the stick back before starting up. "Stick's cummin back!"
 
Diana said:
FYI, as a matter of courtesy, I always (well, almost always, but that's another story) warn people in the back seat (especially men) when I get ready to pull the stick back before starting up. "Stick's cummin back!"
Click to expand...
I include it in my preflight briefing for stick-novices. Something like, "Be advised that in some circumstances the stick might come back this far..." and I slowly bring it all the way back and give it a wiggle. After the nervous laughter dies down, I add, "But that's not really likely to happen." I don't taxi with the stick all the way back when I have a passenger. 3/4ths of the way back is far enough for aerodynamic effect and positive tailwheel traction, and it doesn't put so much pressure on the tailwheel assembly.
 
Based upon my only Citabria flight, I learned that they go upside-down. :D
 
SCCutler said:
Based upon my only Citabria flight, I learned that they go upside-down. :D
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That was a fun flight for me. :yes: Let's do it again.
 
Diana said:
That was a fun flight for me. :yes: Let's do it again.
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Never thought I'd hear a good-lookin' lady ask me THAT again!
 
Diana said:
I found a few on AOPA...if you're a member I'll send you the links.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, Diana, I'm very excited about doing this... I am an AOPA member, so go ahead and fire those links on over the wall!
 
gibbons said:
Even a blind pig can find an acorn.
Click to expand...

Bwah ha ha! I'm gonna get a T-shirt that says "Blind Pig". After the lesson I'll explain what it means to my instructor. That was funny, Chip!
 
Scott 'Gunny' Perdue said:
taxi with the stick back ALL the time
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips, Scott... your comment reminds me that I need to go re-read the FAA's material on the correct control positions for winds while taxiing (quartering tailwind, etc.). All I remember is that they were DIFFERENT for taildraggers than for conventional aircraft...
 
 
I have no tailwheel experience, but I do like Dauntless-Software's products. They offer a tailwheel transisition in their "RideReady Section.
 
Diana said:
FYI, as a matter of courtesy, I always (well, almost always, but that's another story) warn people in the back seat (especially men) when I get ready to pull the stick back before starting up. "Stick's cummin back!"
Click to expand...
Now imagine this from the male perspective, having just strapped a woman in a short skirt into a parachute...

Fly safe!

David
 
Troy Whistman said:
Thanks for the tips, Scott... your comment reminds me that I need to go re-read the FAA's material on the correct control positions for winds while taxiing (quartering tailwind, etc.). All I remember is that they were DIFFERENT for taildraggers than for conventional aircraft...
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Troy, this is from the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook, Chapter 13 on tailwheel airplanes:

When taxiing with a quartering tailwind, the elevator
should be held in the full DOWN position (stick or
yoke full forward), and the upwind aileron down. Since
the wind is striking the airplane from behind, these
control positions reduce the tendency of the wind to get
under the tail and the wing possibly causing the
airplane to nose over. The application of these
crosswind taxi corrections also helps to minimize the
weathervaning tendency and ultimately results in
increased controllability.

An airplane with a tailwheel has a tendency to
weathervane or turn into the wind while it is being
taxied. The tendency of the airplane to weathervane is
greatest while taxiing directly crosswind;
consequently, directional control is somewhat difficult.
Without brakes, it is almost impossible to keep the
airplane from turning into any wind of considerable
velocity since the airplane’s rudder control capability
may be inadequate to counteract the crosswind. In
taxiing downwind, the tendency to weathervane is
increased, due to the tailwind decreasing the
effectiveness of the flight controls. This requires a
more positive use of the rudder and the brakes,
particularly if the wind velocity is above that of a light
breeze.

Unless the field is soft, or very rough, it is best when
taxiing downwind to hold the elevator control in the
forward position. Even on soft fields, the elevator
should be raised only as much as is absolutely
necessary to maintain a safe margin of control in case
there is a tendency of the airplane to nose over.


You can access the whole chapter online at:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/airplane_handbook/
 
Troy Whistman said:
All I remember is that they were DIFFERENT for taildraggers than for conventional aircraft...
Click to expand...
Oh, and btw, according to the FAA book, from Chapter 2:

The following basic taxi information is applicable to
both nosewheel and tailwheel airplanes.
 
I was taught stick position for taxiing in the wind as "Climb into the wind, dive away from the wind."

IOW, with a headwind, stick back and towards the crosswind.
With a tailwind, stick forward and away from the crosswind.

Saves me all that readin' stuff in the AFH ;)

Fly safe!

David
 
MauleSkinner said:
I was taught stick position for taxiing in the wind as "Climb into the wind, dive away from the wind."

IOW, with a headwind, stick back and towards the crosswind.
With a tailwind, stick forward and away from the crosswind.

Saves me all that readin' stuff in the AFH ;)

Fly safe!

David
Click to expand...

But no matter what the wind, you want the stick fully back when you do your runnup. Forget that and you will learn about parking a plane on it's nose. When you have no airspeed and the tail comes more than a little way off the ground with some power on, there's basically nothing you can do to prevent the tail from coming up further besides jumping out and grabbing the tail (not that I'd recommend that).
 
lancefisher said:
But no matter what the wind, you want the stick fully back when you do your runnup. Forget that and you will learn about parking a plane on it's nose. When you have no airspeed and the tail comes more than a little way off the ground with some power on, there's basically nothing you can do to prevent the tail from coming up further besides jumping out and grabbing the tail (not that I'd recommend that).
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...or any time you add substantial power, for that matter...generally above about 1200 rpm for whatever reason the stick is back for me.

Fly safe!

David
 
MauleSkinner said:
...or any time you add substantial power, for that matter...generally above about 1200 rpm for whatever reason the stick is back for me.

Fly safe!

David
Click to expand...

Good point. You can usually get away with applying power on a takeoff roll without holding the stick all the way back, but the day you try that with the tires on soft ground is likely the day you get a closeup view of the runway through the windscreen that one doesn't generally expect in a taildragger.
 
Troy Whistman said:
So, what do I need to know about the Citabria? I have ZERO tailwheel time... I asked if there was anything I needed to read over before arrival, and the dispatch lady said "no". I'm throwing a fit, because I WANT something to read or study before I go for the lesson... figured you guys could point me towards something.
Click to expand...

The Citabria is so docile in it's tendencies in regards to tailwheel dynamics, that getting endorsed in it, doesn't necessarily qualify you for other conventional gear planes. That is the main thing you need to know.
 
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