Tailwheel Endorsement

[CRAZEDpilot]

Tailwheel just takes more consistency and more currency than nose draggers, in my opinion.... not additional skill really. it's a small artform but one that can be learned without great stress or despair Airspeed is only really critical when pushing the envelope for slow field or performance takeoffs - everyone should be able to land without one no question. Happy new year to everyone!

 

[RoscoeT]

Tailwheel just takes more consistency and more currency than nose draggers, in my opinion.... not additional skill really.

There's no question TW takes an additional set of skills not required by nosewheel. Kinda like driving a manual transmission takes a set of skills not required for automatic. You can easily move from one to the other, but not vice versa. TW also forces skill, whereas nosewheel forgives sloppiness of skill.

But you are not necessarily a more skilled pilot overall than a trike driver only because you fly TW, but you do have a set of skills the trike-only pilot doesn't...even if they'll fly circles around you in every way except for keeping a TW airplane herded in a straight line down the runway.

Welcome to POA, BTW.

 

[CRAZEDpilot]

I don't agree - the skill to operate a rudder effectively should already be (deep) within the skillset of a nosedragger pilot. "More Skilled" that just depends on the tape measure If a pilot is comfy with slips, back and forth on short final, they can handle most taildraggers. I think all pilots should have those skills, or learn them.

Thanks for the welcome Roscoe!

 

[RoscoeT]

I don't agree - the skill to operate a rudder effectively should already be (deep) within the skillset of a nosedragger pilot.

But if that were true it wouldn't take most pilots just as long to transition into a TW (after learning in a trike) as it would to solo a TW starting from zero.

 

[steingar]

Congratulations. I hope the OP has continued opportunity to fly conventionally geared aircraft.

 

[yakdriver]

I don't agree - the skill to operate a rudder effectively should already be (deep) within the skillset of a nosedragger pilot. "More Skilled" that just depends on the tape measure If a pilot is comfy with slips, back and forth on short final, they can handle most taildraggers. I think all pilots should have those skills, or learn them.

Thanks for the welcome Roscoe!

The problem is in the current training environment stick and rudder skills and flying with your head out of the cockpit are not being taught very well. Don

 

[Bill Watson]

Well first off you can't beat sitting in the middle with a stick and the visibility for the pilot of a Champ or Citabria is probably among the best out there for a high wing.

The Maule is a decent airplane but, like the Citabria, it's not a sophisticated airplane and has gobs of adverse yaw that is offset somewhat by a rudder servo tab inter-connect. It's a heavier airplane and flys more like a pick-up truck, which is somewhat analogous to it's design purpose. You just can't throw it around like a Citabria or - to be closer in mission intent, a Scout. With two people in front there's not much spare elbow room and the co-pilot has to keep his legs and feet in a specific position to avoid conflict with the yoke and pedals.

I've spent plenty of x-country hours in an M7, coast to coast, Oshkosh, Alaska and back, hung out with the Maule enthusiasts at back-country strips in Idaho and Montana and did my seaplane training in a Maule. It's a capable airplane that can haul two guys and just about anything they'd want to bring along with them to just about anywhere.

But a Champ, Citabria or Cub is still just more fun to fly.

i have 1600 hours in a Maule and 0 in Champs/Citabrias but agree totally with the comparison.

The Maule is an utilitarian aircraft that you can carry stuff in, fly almost anywhere, and maintain easily. It flies like an old SUV on a truck chassis. You can't fly it feet on the floor but you can almost cruise it with hands in the lap. It helps to have a 110lb SO. It has a yoke (which I miss). It has reflex flaps which make for great descents and instrument approaches. You can fly around with any 1 of the 4 doors removed - very cool. I loved it all.

If you want to go somewhere with a bunch of stuff and a friend or two or three, and do something when you get there - the Maule is great. If you want to go up and knock a fun airplane around the sky, the Citabria sounds like the ticket.

 

[GCA319]

]I'll take you out in a Grob 103 and you will learn rudder and adverse yaw, without the interference of propellor P factor.[/B]

Tailwheel will improve your flying, crosswind sensing and control, but gliders will add to your sensing what the air, and airplane are doing.

No kidding. I took an intro flight in a Grob 103 as a 400 hour Commercial pilot/CFI in airplanes, but my coordination was more in line with that of a 5 hour student. Later on in the flight, I found that leading turns with some rudder helped keep things in check..

 

[flhrci]

This has been on my "want to do" list since I started flying. Unfortunately, it just hasn't happened yet. Much of that was due to lack of any tailwheel aircraft at my previous airport or the surrounding area. Where we live now, there are some tailwheel aircraft for rent/training, but it's over an hour drive away. Well, maybe one day.

Good job.

Ted,

You can fly into Red Stewart Airfield any time when the airport is open and the grass is good to go. Just gotta wait a couple months.

I went there for two tail wheel lessons until I got really annoyed with the CFI.

David

 

[MBDiagMan]

That is a bad thing?

I had the same question. I'm thinking he might have been saying that "tongue in cheek."

 

[MBDiagMan]

I did make a point of looking to see what speed I lift off at once, but I have since forgotten what it was.

My little LSA is easy enough that I can glance down without worry, but often I forget - it's just not how I learned how to fly in the first place. Priority one was keeping the airplane between the runway lights. There was no priority two.

Quite honestly, I have not much more than a vague idea how fast I'm going when I lift off the runway. I start rolling down the runway and when it feels right, I lift the tail up. I build a little more speed and when it feels right I gently lift it off the runway and nose over to pick up airspeed to best climb. That's the first time I actually look at the ASI.

Like Geoff indicates, I'm focused in keeping the plane in the middle of the runway.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I had the same question. I'm thinking he might have been saying that "tongue in cheek."

Somewhat.

There do seem to be two fundamental different approaches to leaving the ground - one seems to be a "by the numbers" where you are looking for specific speeds, checking gyro headings, etc. And the other is more "by the butt" where the focus is outside and the airplane flys when it is ready.

Now, there are applications where the "by the numbers" approach is essential. Flying big daddy twin, for example, seems to involve keeping a good focus on the panel and tracking various V speeds. But there are applications where the "by the butt" seems to be superior - one of those being small taildraggers where the first priority is to keep the airplane straight and the second priority is making sure you are not distracted from the first priority (particularly if you are new to a tailwheel or somewhat on the rusty side).

I think sometimes those who have only flown "by the numbers" have problems when they get into a little taildragger and don't realize how quickly one can find that they are pointed at the runway lights and not down the centerline - there is some un-learning involved since they may have always been taught the importance of watching the dials instead of looking outside.

So which is the "bad habit" and which is the "good habit"?

I suspect that a really competent pilot can blend the two methods as appropriate for the particular aircraft and particular situation.

 

[wickedsprint]

The problem is in the current training environment stick and rudder skills and flying with your head out of the cockpit are not being taught very well. Don

I learned to fly at an airport with a field elevation of over 6000' and lots of windy days.

We had to learn rudder skills since we rarely landed on both mains simultaneously.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Congratulations. I hope the OP has continued opportunity to fly conventionally geared aircraft.

Thanks! Yeah I'll continue to fly this 7KCAB citabria (fuel injected) until college and there is a 7GCBC (carbureted with flaps) I will be flying once in college. Like I said... if I never fly a tricycle gear plane again I'll be happy.

I learned to fly at an airport with a field elevation of over 6000' and lots of windy days.

We had to learn rudder skills since we rarely landed on both mains simultaneously.

Me too. The essential difference between nose wheel and tailwheel and the reason the transition is not necessarily easy between the aircraft regardless of rudder skill is that tailwheels are essentially unstable. A mistake will propagate and become worse and worse. A tricycle gear plane forgives mistakes and is positively stable.

 

[wickedsprint]

... if I never fly a tricycle gear plane again I'll be happy.



A tricycle gear plane forgives mistakes and is positively stable.

Agree, but PIO can still manifest in a nose gear aircraft as pitch oscillations leading to collapsed gear.

They both can bite.

To be honest I fly for the sake of flying and could care less about the gear underneath. A 172 isn't boring because it's a trike. It's boring because it's a 172.

Citabrias are fun for being stick and rudder controlled, centerline seating and aerobatic. It just happens to be a TW.

 

[denverpilot]

I had the same question. I'm thinking he might have been saying that "tongue in cheek."

I've never understood that phrase. It's weird to stick your tongue in your cheek. And pretty hard to talk that way too.

 

[N1347B]

Ten pages...

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41307&highlight=takeoff

You tell me...

We're supposed to look at the airspeed indicator during the takeoff roll???

I guess I'm supposed to be looking at it when I'm landing my Luscombe as well.

I probably need more training. Wait, just had that. It's called a flight review. My instructor saw no bad habits, but what does she know? She flies a Taylorcraft (and a Cessna 170, a Cessna 195 and a 777)

Sorry guys. Couldn't resist being a smarty. Appears I fly in a different world.

Deb

 

[BillTIZ]

We're supposed to look at the airspeed indicator during the takeoff roll???

I guess I'm supposed to be looking at it when I'm landing my Luscombe as well.

I probably need more training. Wait, just had that. It's called a flight review. My instructor saw no bad habits, but what does she know? She flies a Taylorcraft (and a Cessna 170, a Cessna 195 and a 777)

Sorry guys. Couldn't resist being a smarty. Appears I fly in a different world.

Deb

Tail or nose dragger, I always check "airspeed alive" early in the takeoff roll. I check again at about liftoff to see if the ASI agrees with the "feel" that we are ready to fly. I check again after climb pitch established as a crosscheck.

Yes, I have aborted a takeoff for no airspeed indication when the needle should have been alive. Found blocked pitot. Abort early, don't wait for the go/no-go distance decision.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Tail or nose dragger, I always check "airspeed alive" early in the takeoff roll. I check again at about liftoff to see if the ASI agrees with the "feel" that we are ready to fly. I check again after climb pitch established as a crosscheck.

Well... I'm still new at this so for the time being I keep my eyes outside. I have to concentrate pretty hard to keep the engine pointed forward

 

[Fearless Tower]

We're supposed to look at the airspeed indicator during the takeoff roll???

If all you fly are light single engine airplanes, I wouldn't call you unsafe for not looking at it. As you know, the airplane will fly just fine without ever looking at the ASI?

My comments in the other thread were more related to the fact that if you are a proficient TW pilot, it just really isn't that difficult to glance at the panel and confirm things like airspeed alive and engine instruments in the green.

That said, I must admit that I do not look at the ASI in the DC-3, but then I have less than 10 hrs in type and PNF is looking at it (and calling it out) for me.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[N1347B]

Well... I'm still new at this so for the time being I keep my eyes outside. I have to concentrate pretty hard to keep the engine pointed forward

A thousand hours from now you will still be doing the same thing. Enjoy!

Deb

 

[N1347B]

If all you fly are light single engine airplanes, I wouldn't call you unsafe for not looking at it. As you know, the airplane will fly just fine without ever looking at the ASI?

My comments in the other thread were more related to the fact that if you are a proficient TW pilot, it just really isn't that difficult to glance at the panel and confirm things like airspeed alive and engine instruments in the green.

That said, I must admit that I do not look at the ASI in the DC-3, but then I have less than 10 hrs in type and PNF is looking at it (and calling it out) for me.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I will make it my goal this coming year to try to become a proficient TW pilot.

Maybe there's hope for me yet.

;-).

Deb

 

[Fearless Tower]

I will make it my goal this coming year to try to become a proficient TW pilot.

Maybe there's hope for me yet.

;-).

Deb

Deb, I am sure you are....that wasn't my point. If that is all the kind of flying you do, there isn't a critical need to change the way you fly......but for those of us who fly alot of different aircraft where things like that are important, it is not at all difficult to include the ASI in the takeoff roll scan when we fly tailwheels.

 

[yakdriver]

Deb, I am sure you are....that wasn't my point. If that is all the kind of flying you do, there isn't a critical need to change the way you fly......but for those of us who fly alot of different aircraft where things like that are important, it is not at all difficult to include the ASI in the takeoff roll scan when we fly tailwheels.

I fly a lot of different airplanes mostly tailwheel. As I advance the throttle I glance at the oil pressure gauge and don' pay any attention to the ASI until establishing climb. Unless it is a gusty crosswind I take off in a slightly tail low attitude and the airplane flies off when it is ready. That same attitude usually is about the correct climb angle and it only takes slight adjustments to pitch for the climb airspeed. There are times I will check airspeed on say a short backcountry strip as I near my go no go point. Don

 

[Fearless Tower]

I fly a lot of different airplanes mostly tailwheel.

Do you fly twins?

When I started flying ME (long before I did much tailwheel) it was drilled into my head to check ASI along with the engine gauges. I jump back and forth between various tailwheels, singles and twins, so I try to keep my techniques/habits as consistent as possible.

If you don't want to look at an ASI, no one is going to force you to. I agree with the comments that a competent pilot should be able to fly without one if it were to fail. All I am saying is that it just isn't difficult to include it in your scan.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

If you don't want to look at an ASI, no one is going to force you to. I agree with the comments that a competent pilot should be able to fly without one if it were to fail. All I am saying is that it just isn't difficult to include it in your scan.

In my limited experience, what I have seen is a "nosewheel" pilot focusing more on the panel than outside as the tailwheel airplane heads for the edge of the runway (10 or 20 degrees off centerline) on his first attempt. Fun stuff.

When one is first learning, it's probably best to not look down at all - less chance of getting distracted. But, once you have had a chance to train the airplane to behave properly then it's a lot easier.

I try to remember to glance down, but it's a matter of changing habits.

Another thing I should do is look at the ground where I did the run up for puddles...

 

[yakdriver]

Do you fly twins?

When I started flying ME (long before I did much tailwheel) it was drilled into my head to check ASI along with the engine gauges. I jump back and forth between various tailwheels, singles and twins, so I try to keep my techniques/habits as consistent as possible.

If you don't want to look at an ASI, no one is going to force you to. I agree with the comments that a competent pilot should be able to fly without one if it were to fail. All I am saying is that it just isn't difficult to include it in your scan.

We're talking single engine airplanes. Yes Twins are flown with ASI and for good reason. Learning to fly by feel and honing good stick and rudder skills are done with your head out of the cockpit. Don

 

[stearmann4]

If you can master landing a Citabria from the back seat, you'll do fine in a Stearman. :wink2: That along with flying from the back of a J-3 with someone's big head in front of you will show you that you really don't need to reference airspeed, the tach, or trim ball.

Mike-

 

[stearmann4]

We're supposed to look at the airspeed indicator during the takeoff roll???

I guess I'm supposed to be looking at it when I'm landing my Luscombe as well.

I probably need more training. Wait, just had that. It's called a flight review. My instructor saw no bad habits, but what does she know? She flies a Taylorcraft (and a Cessna 170, a Cessna 195 and a 777)

Sorry guys. Couldn't resist being a smarty. Appears I fly in a different world.

Deb

Deb,

Big fan of your writing. I'm flying the Stearman from WA to SE Alabama next September and planned to come visit the "Porch Gang"..just cuz.

Mike-

 

[yakdriver]

Ahh, the pain and pleasure of flying open cockpit on a long cross country. Flew the N3N from Georgetown, TX to Twin Falls, ID a couple years ago. It was fun but a loooong way.Mike are you going to do a fuel stop around TWF? If so let me know. I'm also a fan of Deb's column and would like to meet her someday. Don

 

[stearmann4]

Don,

I realized early on how very unglamorous and exhausting open cockpit XC flying is, especially when you're trying to maintain a schedule. If I ever retire I'm going to try to cross the country one summer flying only a couple of hours a day and see if that improves my perspective.

I may take the southern route through SoCal, AZ, etc. However, I fly a big, black Chinook helicopter at work and make frequent stops in TWF. Every airport I stop at I'm always trying to sniff out the local biplane or duster guys. I'll look you up the next time I'm in town!

Mike-

 

[N1347B]

Deb,

Big fan of your writing. I'm flying the Stearman from WA to SE Alabama next September and planned to come visit the "Porch Gang"..just cuz.

Mike-

Fans are always welcome! Please do come by! Do you know when that will be in September? We are are taking the 8A to Iowa the first of that month.

Deb

 

[stearmann4]

Deb,

I'll be attending the National Stearman Fly-In in Galesburg, IL Labor Day weekend, so it'll be after that and I'll be staying in AL (Dothan)until the first week of October.

 

[CRAZEDpilot]

Ohh wow that sounds like a heck of an event! Sure wish we could attend! What a sight to see!