Tailwheel Endorsement Next Week

You don't need any extra approach speed for wheel landings. Normally one would start the roundout well above the ground and continue to decelerate in the flare. For the wheel landing, the approach speed is maintained until closer to the surface and the descent rate reduced to almost zero as the wheels get close to the surface. When they touch you raise the tail a hair to keep them there. If you hit a bit too hard it will bounce; get the nose up and add full power and get out of there. Don't try to shove the nose down when it bounces up or you'll get a serious jackrabbiting going and maybe bust the airplane.

I find that the Citabrias wheel-land a lot easier if you bank the airplane just a bit as you get close so that one wheel touches a bit before the other. The energy that would normally cause a little bounce is largely absorbed by lowering the other wheel to the pavement.


Dan
 
jstro said:
It's what I've been taught, and it seems to work well for me. It's also 1.4 times the stall speed (54 mph), and normal approach speed is usually about 1.4X give or take, so that seems to make sense. My POH is pretty sparse and doesn't say anything about it specifically. Just to be sure, are we both talking in units of mph, not knots?
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Talking mph. I always used 65 on final but I only have a couple hundred hours in a SuperD so what do I know. I do know 85 is way too fast for any kind of landing. As Dan said, you really don't need any more speed for a wheel landing but it is easier with just a touch more airspeed. Also you don't need any power for a wheelie but again a touch just makes it easier.
 
Update: I forgot Fleet Week is this weekend and cannot pass up a "free" 4 hour airshow which includes the Blue Angels and Canada's Snowbirds as seen from the Golden Gate Bridge / shoreline area.

I rescheduled my tailwheel lesson for other reasons, too - mainly finances. I have two pilots coming from POA in October and am excited to get back into the tiny 152.

My new date is Saturday, October 29th. It is for the best, though.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Update: I forgot Fleet Week is this weekend and cannot pass up a "free" 4 hour airshow which includes the Blue Angels and Canada's Snowbirds as seen from the Golden Gate Bridge / shoreline area.

I rescheduled my tailwheel lesson for other reasons, too - mainly finances. I have two pilots coming from POA in October and am excited to get back into the tiny 152.

My new date is Saturday, October 29th. It is for the best, though.
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Sounds like a lawn chair on Alcatraz would make for a fun afternoon.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Update: I forgot Fleet Week is this weekend and cannot pass up a "free" 4 hour airshow which includes the Blue Angels and Canada's Snowbirds as seen from the Golden Gate Bridge / shoreline area.
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Bummer. I knew that was sometime around mid October. Too bad I'm going to miss it by a few days.
 
jstro said:
Yeah, in the Decathlon I usually do 75 mph on approach before rounding out for the flare. Yesterday for wheelies it was more like 85 mph. My instructor did say that it's not necessary to have extra speed to do wheel landings, but for training purposes it gave me more time to work things out as I was about to touch down.
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OMG!!! You just committed a violation of Dogma!!! There is only approach speed (1.4 VSO) as ordained by God!!!

Aside from that.

What I find helpful (at least in some aircraft) when confronted by much more crosswind than one had anticipated is to carry an extra handful of speed down final, set it on the mains at a speed where you still have good solid controls and then steer with the brakes / rudder. Avoids floating around over the runway getting blown out of shape... But, it depends on the aircraft / brakes. It works well with good toe brakes, but in a Champ with cable heel brakes, well,... :no:

And it can be overdone. I was at a buddy's place (name withheld to protect the guilty) digging through his extra parts collection when a set of really bad discs came to the surface - nice blue color from being overheated... Turns out that an instructor was teaching his son how to wheel land using a "high speed touchdown - then brake" technique. (Knowing the instructor, I was surprised to hear that - he is someone I would consider to be a really good stick - I guess anyone can have a gap in their edgeamacation.)
 
MBDiagMan said:
Sounds like a lawn chair on Alcatraz would make for a fun afternoon.
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I was navigating a very small boat (seventeen feet sea ray) while the BF was trying to fish for salmon and other fish with anchovies and squid. The seas were very calm in the morning but hellish in the afternoon. Made it hard to take photos but the planes flew almost 100% of their routines over the bay which made our seats "perfect".

The salt water is very bad for the engine and the boat so I doubt we'll ever attempt that again, especially since he didn't catch any fish, but the memory will last a lifetime. Oh and I'll never live down boating into the wake without enough power and soaking him in salt spray over the bow.

Besides, when you think "air show" you don't think "fishing". So it was very unique.
 
I didn't go this year, had other things to do and didn't want to deal with traffic. When I do go though, I usually park near the top of Conzelman Road in the Marin Headlands (North side of the Golden Gate Bridge.) Great vantage point. Fishing while viewing the airshow sounds productive though. I could see doing that.
 
There's lots of great responses here, but in case this wasn't mentioned:

Read The Compleat Taildragger by Harvey Plourdebefore you go. I did and it helped prepare me immensely. Rob Schaffer borrowed it and I think he said it was helpful.

If you'd like I can mail you my copy.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
The salt water is very bad for the engine and the boat so I doubt we'll ever attempt that again, especially since he didn't catch any fish, but the memory will last a lifetime. Oh and I'll never live down boating into the wake without enough power and soaking him in salt spray over the bow.
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Buy an engine flusher (around 20 bucks) and flush the thing out after you use it if you are really concerned about salt water. Its really not so bad. Our last outboard got 14 years and thousands of hours in salt water before it went kaput and we never even bothered to flush it.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I was navigating a very small boat (seventeen feet sea ray) while the BF was trying to fish for salmon and other fish with anchovies and squid. The seas were very calm in the morning but hellish in the afternoon. Made it hard to take photos but the planes flew almost 100% of their routines over the bay which made our seats "perfect".

The salt water is very bad for the engine and the boat so I doubt we'll ever attempt that again, especially since he didn't catch any fish, but the memory will last a lifetime. Oh and I'll never live down boating into the wake without enough power and soaking him in salt spray over the bow.

Besides, when you think "air show" you don't think "fishing". So it was very unique.
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Sounds like a day you won't forget!
Doc
 
dell30rb said:
Buy an engine flusher (around 20 bucks) and flush the thing out after you use it if you are really concerned about salt water. Its really not so bad. Our last outboard got 14 years and thousands of hours in salt water before it went kaput and we never even bothered to flush it.
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Thanks, we did this after getting home, it hooks up to the motor through the garden hose. The dock also had free fresh water rinsing stations so we did that too. Boats are a lot of work but they sure are fun.
 
dmccormack said:
There's lots of great responses here, but in case this wasn't mentioned:

Read The Compleat Taildragger by Harvey Plourdebefore you go. I did and it helped prepare me immensely. Rob Schaffer borrowed it and I think he said it was helpful.

If you'd like I can mail you my copy.
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Are you sure you won't need it for a reference or something? If not, I would love that - I'll send you a prepaid envelope so you can just pop it in the mail.
 
dmccormack said:
There's lots of great responses here, but in case this wasn't mentioned:

Read The Compleat Taildragger by Harvey Plourdebefore you go. I did and it helped prepare me immensely. Rob Schaffer borrowed it and I think he said it was helpful.

If you'd like I can mail you my copy.
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I tell all of my students to buy that book.

Ryan
 
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dmccormack said:
There's lots of great responses here, but in case this wasn't mentioned:

Read The Compleat Taildragger by Harvey Plourdebefore you go. I did and it helped prepare me immensely. Rob Schaffer borrowed it and I think he said it was helpful.

If you'd like I can mail you my copy.
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Very helpful, and I"m very appreciative of being able to borrow it. To bad we couldn't meet up that day as Gary and I were on our XC to Dayton.

All this TW talk, going to make me schedule again in the Citabria:)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Well, the CFI on the phone said it is not officially a runway, so I'm not sure how much time we'll spend in the grass. He was REALLY nice and so much different than the people at my flight school. He also said that airport has a TON of events (EAA chapter, weekly Saturday BBQs, weekly / monthly airport movie nights on the field with popcorn, etc.)

He also told me that taildragger pilots are a sort of smaller, tighter group. Like a sub-group of pilots.
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start a discussion on whether to wheel or three point and you'll find out how "groupie" we can be:hairraise:
tricycle gear flyers don't have the same discussions cause as we know a trained monkey can land one of those!!!

just being a smart a$$ ,flame suit is on!
 
rottydaddy said:
You will enjoy the Citabria! It will be weird on the ground at first, but you`ll get over that right away when you get to play with it in the air a little. They are fun.
And yes, the tailwheel training will help you with any plane, mostly because there's that little extra bit of awareness that gets switched on- "Got to remember that the center of mass is behind the mains; think ahead, think ahead, etc., etc.". It's not that handling nosedraggers makes you complacent, but... well, you'll see. You pick up something that stays with you. Same kind of added flavor that you might get from gliders, or aerobatics, or instrument flying.
And taildraggers just look cooler, as do the people piloting them. Especially when they do awesome slips to short-field landings, and put all the flap-dependent pilots to shame.:D
...But that's more of a "look, no flaps!" thing, I guess... still, only thing cooler than mastering short-field technique in an older no-flap monoplane is doing the same with a biplane. :D


Wheel landings, while of dubious practical use, are another show-offish thing that taildraggers get to do. But the TW pilot is just satisfied knowing they are clearly showing complete control of the machine... even if nobody's watching.

... if you groundloop (or almost) during the training, be happy- it's much better to get that out of the way early, with an instructor! Nothing to be ashamed of, either... just this summer I saw a very experienced taildragger pilot go off into the weeds... I was surprised it happened to him, but not surprised that he stayed on top of it and turned it into a non-event.
Obviously, it was not his first time. :D
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Did a checkride (actually it was a heap of checkrides) with a mate in his C185, first time out he says"don't worry about getting out of shape ,you can't take this plane anywhere I haven't already been", after too many circuits he let me loose with the big girl and I fell in love (lust) with taildraggers and the big Cessnas, now I spend my days scheming on how to afford a C185 of my own!
 
metalman said:
tricycle gear flyers don't have the same discussions cause as we know a trained monkey can land one of those!!!
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NASA supposedly was able to train monkeys to fly airplanes. But nobody was ever able to train any monkey to fix an airplane.

Dan (pilot/mechanic)
 
metalman said:
start a discussion on whether to wheel or three point and you'll find out how "groupie" we can be:hairraise:
tricycle gear flyers don't have the same discussions cause as we know a trained monkey can land one of those!!!

just being a smart a$$ ,flame suit is on!
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I do both but I also fly a biplane so that fits into the high wing vs. low wing discussion. I'm very confused and need help. Don
 
Dan Thomas said:
NASA supposedly was able to train monkeys to fly airplanes. But nobody was ever able to train any monkey to fix an airplane.

Dan (pilot/mechanic)
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They should have given them monkey wrenches.
 
metalman said:
start a discussion on whether to wheel or three point and you'll find out how "groupie" we can be:hairraise:
tricycle gear flyers don't have the same discussions cause as we know a trained monkey can land one of those!!!

just being a smart a$$ ,flame suit is on!
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Most taildragger pilots fly like monkeys anyway so I figure a chimp should be ok in one....

I used to fly out of Lilydale, Coldspring and Moorabin and worked a fire out of LaTrobe Valley about 6 years ago.

The fact that you remain to reside in Melbourne, a city in competition for "crappiest weather year round" brings into question any judgement calls you may make...:D;)
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Very helpful, and I"m very appreciative of being able to borrow it. To bad we couldn't meet up that day as Gary and I were on our XC to Dayton.

All this TW talk, going to make me schedule again in the Citabria:)
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I guess you are borrowing it after me? He meant he was sending it to California.

But I'm sending it back to him when I'm done. You're next?
 
Henning;786333[SIZE=3 said:
]Most taildragger pilots fly like monkeys anyway so I figure a chimp should be ok in one....[/SIZE]

I used to fly out of Lilydale, Coldspring and Moorabin and worked a fire out of LaTrobe Valley about 6 years ago.

The fact that you remain to reside in Melbourne, a city in competition for "crappiest weather year round" brings into question any judgement calls you may make...:D;)
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Henning,

Were you at KGLE Gainesville, Texas yesterday and saw my take off? If you had, you would probably have taken pity and offered me a banana. It was my worst take off since I solo'd and the whole Antique Airplane Association had a front row seat for it.

Oh well, it just gives me a good excuse for mor pattern work. I would be at the airport as we speak except there 25MPH gusts right now.

Doc
 
MBDiagMan said:
Henning,

Were you at KGLE Gainesville, Texas yesterday and saw my take off? If you had, you would probably have taken pity and offered me a banana. It was my worst take off since I solo'd and the whole Antique Airplane Association had a front row seat for it.

Oh well, it just gives me a good excuse for mor pattern work. I would be at the airport as we speak except there 25MPH gusts right now.

Doc
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And it'll likely happen again at some time. Over 20 years and 2000 hrs and I still screw it up on the "pretty" department every now and again. Difference is now I just correct and don't worry about it. Pretty is not a requirement, control is.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I guess you are borrowing it after me? He meant he was sending it to California.

But I'm sending it back to him when I'm done. You're next?
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No, I borrowed it from him last year when I did my TW in a Citabria at Wings Field. It's a good read, enjoy and have fun learning to use your feet!
 
Rob Schaffer said:
No, I borrowed it from him last year when I did my TW in a Citabria at Wings Field. It's a good read, enjoy and have fun learning to use your feet!
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Oh, sorry - I misunderstood. I think he sent it to me already but for some reason it has not yet arrived. The post office is very slow these days.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
That is ok, my first lesson (if finances allow) isn't for a few weeks.
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It ain't hard. Just use your feet to keep it straight on the runway. After you leave the ground, it's no different...

Landing is easier with a tailwheel. Keeping it straight after the landing is a little more effort- you have to pay atttention and use your feet.
 
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