Tailwheel endorsement - DONE

[flyersfan31]

That's the aspect I internalized the quickest. After the first lesson, with the taxiing practice, etc, I didn't really have problems. I thought it would be a bigger deal but, yeah, if you just tap, and anticipate, you'll be ok. I was pretty heavy on the pedals at first. It ended up feeling like second nature.

 

[rottydaddy]

That and QUICK feet. If yer tardy, you'll need a big foot and that's the beginning of the end, right there.

Well said.
I think my own experience is common- if you are pushing it all the way and holding it, it's already too late.
It's about the same as in a car, when just trying to negotiate a turn: if you have turned the wheels all the way to the stops, it's because you've already lost it. And it will do as little good as stomping a rudder or brake pedal when the tail is past the point of no return.

 

[RyanShort1]

Well said.
I think my own experience is common- if you are pushing it all the way and holding it, it's already too late.
It's about the same as in a car, when just trying to negotiate a turn: if you have turned the wheels all the way to the stops, it's because you've already lost it. And it will do as little good as stomping a rudder or brake pedal when the tail is past the point of no return.

It's really amazing how fast it can get away from you.
I had to "save" a landing from a student this past week. He made a really decent approach that looked fairly stabilized, then at the last half second he over-controlled just a bit and touched down with a significant side-load. By the time you could snap your finger, we were in a groundloop starting about 45-55 degrees off from the centerline headed towards the grass. Anyway, I hit hard opposite rudder and was VERY grateful that I was able to get the bird back on centerline after about 3 seconds of hard work. The only good thing that came out of that was that the student really started paying better attention afterwards. Also, one of the senior instructors was watching... he thought I was past saving it, and frankly, so did I for a second, but it turned out ok.

Ryan

 

[flyersfan31]

I would be very nervous, as a CFI, teaching the first few hours of tailwheel. Very nervous!

 

[jesse]

That's how it is for me nearly every takeoff (well, except for 5000' MSL!) The ground roll is long enough that it takes some foot action to keep the thing rolling straight (unlike many over-powered Super Cubs and the like)..

I assure you that an over-powered tail dragger still requires plenty of footwork. You can't just slam in the throttle and end up in the air. You'll end up off the runway in a hurry doing that.

Quite a few of the really-over-powered taildraggers simply don't have enough rudder for their power. If you apply full power you end up off the runway no matter what you do with your feet. It's a balance of making sure that the power never exceeds the rudder/brake authority.

 

[dmccormack]

I assure you that an over-powered tail dragger still requires plenty of footwork. You can't just slam in the throttle and end up in the air. You'll end up off the runway in a hurry doing that.

Quite a few of the really-over-powered taildraggers simply don't have enough rudder for their power. If you apply full power you end up off the runway no matter what you do with your feet. It's a balance of making sure that the power never exceeds the rudder/brake authority.

Well, yeah, but takeoff roll in a SuperCub with one aboard is measured in raccoon tails, even with smooth application of power.

I am smooth on power application because I like my engine and its really old, but if I lift the tail too abruptly the thing heads left.

So I do it gently. Mostly.

 

[Ted]

Since I have my MEL I figured I'd just go find a C-46 to get my tailwheel in. I'm sure I should be able to rent one.

Congrats, Andrew! I may go do that someday.

 

[gismo]

I assure you that an over-powered tail dragger still requires plenty of footwork. You can't just slam in the throttle and end up in the air. You'll end up off the runway in a hurry doing that.

Quite a few of the really-over-powered taildraggers simply don't have enough rudder for their power. If you apply full power you end up off the runway no matter what you do with your feet. It's a balance of making sure that the power never exceeds the rudder/brake authority.

Actually in some you can. A friend's one design biplane (patterned after a Pitts S2) has so much static thrust that if you start in the middle of a 100 ft wide runway and apply full throttle, it will be in the air before it runs off the side even if you just keep the pedals centered (the owner is the brother of "Captain Geoffrey Thorpe" here).

 

[jesse]

Actually in some you can. A friend's one design biplane (patterned after a Pitts S2) has so much static thrust that if you start in the middle of a 100 ft wide runway and apply full throttle, it will be in the air before it runs off the side even if you just keep the pedals centered (the owner is the brother of "Captain Geoffrey Thorpe" here).

Hm. That I'd like to see. I'd imagine you'd be pretty dependent on the thrust for keeping you flying and a sudden loss of thrust could be rather catastrophic immediately after lift-off? I can't imagine you'd be able to keep the rudder centered throughout that and into the immediate climb without the torque causing lots of issues but I've never flown it.

 

[PittsDriver]

Actually in some you can. A friend's one design biplane (patterned after a Pitts S2) has so much static thrust that if you start in the middle of a 100 ft wide runway and apply full throttle, it will be in the air before it runs off the side even if you just keep the pedals centered (the owner is the brother of "Captain Geoffrey Thorpe" here).

I wondering why you'd want to - I kinda like the notion of staying on the centerline during take off?? I fly an S-2C about 80 - 100 hours a year out of a 2500x48 runway and I can assure you that it takes some very active, quick footwork to get it on and off the ground. If you ever find yourself pressing and holding a rudder long enough to see the nose starting to move, you've held it too long or waited way too late to apply it. The proper technique is like a tap dance on the pedals.

On the issue that Jesse brought up, some of the really high powered war bird take a careful application of power on take off. You just can't use full power even on a go-around. A Mustang was lost and it's pilot killed a few years ago on a go-around when he cobbed the throttle and torque rolled it right over on it's back into the ground.

 

[gismo]

I wondering why you'd want to - I kinda like the notion of staying on the centerline during take off?? I fly an S-2C about 80 - 100 hours a year out of a 2500x48 runway and I can assure you that it takes some very active, quick footwork to get it on and off the ground. If you ever find yourself pressing and holding a rudder long enough to see the nose starting to move, you've held it too long or waited way too late to apply it. The proper technique is like a tap dance on the pedals.

I never meant to imply that this was a good idea, just that it's (marginally) feasible due to a very low power loading coupled with a lot of wing. And yes, the intent for every takeoff should include remaining on the centerline, not just the runway surface.

On the issue that Jesse brought up, some of the really high powered war bird take a careful application of power on take off. You just can't use full power even on a go-around. A Mustang was lost and it's pilot killed a few years ago on a go-around when he cobbed the throttle and torque rolled it right over on it's back into the ground.

Absolutely. Many of the big engined warbirds with high wing loading will roll into the dirt if you apply too much throttle at too low an airspeed, much like a twin on one engine below Vmca. AFaIK, most won't roll over while still on the ground though so as long as you acquire sufficient airspeed with the mains pinned to the ground I believe you can use full power on the runway (assuming you can keep the nose pointed down the centerline).

 

[Ted]

Absolutely. Many of the big engined warbirds with high wing loading will roll into the dirt if you apply too much throttle at too low an airspeed, much like a twin on one engine below Vmca. AFaIK, most won't roll over while still on the ground though so as long as you acquire sufficient airspeed with the mains pinned to the ground I believe you can use full power on the runway (assuming you can keep the nose pointed down the centerline).

When I read John Deakin's book earlier this year he wrote enough about starting up R-2800s and flying planes with them to make me jealous enough to stop reading. Actually I finished the book, but by the 15 time he explained the starting procedure on an engine I'll never be lucky enough to touch (including the prayer "Please God don't let me screw this up"), it got a bit boring.

Anyway, he talked quite a bit about flying these old warbirds, and ginger application of power on takeoff was heavily emphasized. I find it to be a good idea regardless of what you fly, just because it's easier on the equipment and nicer for passengers.