T/O and Landing on a 1200FT runway in a PA28

arnoha said:
We talk about setting personal limits, then we taunt our fellow pilots for being wusses. It's a bit of double-speak, no?
Click to expand...


Not calling anyone out. But short runways are a skill that should be practiced, and can be easily done on large runways. I try to land on the same spot every time I land at my home base, no matter what the wind is doing. I'm not successful in this yet, but I'm working on it. I'm not going to win Valdez STOL contest or anything, but doesn't learning how to control the energy in your plane open more options for you when you need to land? Or places you can go? There's quite a few sub-3k' x 40' runways out there.
 
O22 Columbia is a good stop with a grass strip (>2600') on your way to/from Oregon.

Usually is in good shape. Need to be aware of density altitude there in the summer, but in the late fall/winter shouldn't be an issue (so long as no snow).
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Pick an abort point - The frequently quoted rule of thumb is that you want to have at least 70% of your lift off speed at 50% of the runway length - but you may need to adjust this to account for obstacles.
Click to expand...
That is a good rule of thumb for the takeoff once you are there but I'm not sure how that solves the OP's question - making the decision whether or not to go there to begin with.
 
midlifeflyer said:
That is a good rule of thumb for the takeoff once you are there but I'm not sure how that solves the OP's question - making the decision whether or not to go there to begin with.
Click to expand...
Flying out of a longer grass strip should give him some idea about how much runway it really takes. Then allowing for the fact that the grass may be longer, or ground softer just to be safe...
 
arnoha said:
We talk about setting personal limits, then we taunt our fellow pilots for being wusses. It's a bit of double-speak, no?
Click to expand...
SarcasmAlert.png


My personal limits are well thought out and rational. Yours are the product of diseased mind and fanciful thinking.

Kind of like Mel Brooks' description of the difference between tragedy and comedy.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Flying out of a longer grass strip should give him some idea about how much runway it really takes. Then allowing for the fact that the grass may be longer, or ground softer just to be safe...
Click to expand...
Yes, finding similar conditions on a longer runway would be one way of developing a comfort level for the operation. Maybe even starting from a point that only leaves equivalent available runway to get a picture of what that looks like. But for an inexperienced pilot, doing it with a CFI is not a bad addition.
 
I could have worked my Travelair in and out of 700''; it wouldn't have been safe given Vmc considerations, but performance wise, in typical solo traveling weight and trim, 360hp gave it impressive enough acceleration if I was landing somewhere and heading out with half tanks. Given Vmc considerations, I was ok with 1300' given clear way to climb out. The nice thing with turbos is I could get that same HP at Leadville.
 
UngaWunga said:
Not calling anyone out. But short runways are a skill that should be practiced, and can be easily done on large runways. I try to land on the same spot every time I land at my home base, no matter what the wind is doing. I'm not successful in this yet, but I'm working on it. I'm not going to win Valdez STOL contest or anything, but doesn't learning how to control the energy in your plane open more options for you when you need to land? Or places you can go? There's quite a few sub-3k' x 40' runways out there.
Click to expand...

Nope, not disagreeing with any of that. Definitely should be practicing our skills.

My response was a little stronger than I think I intended. Type for a long time and you start to argue against the straw man in your head instead of what was actually in the previous post. And I type for entirely too long most of the time. Didn't mean to be as harsh as how it read.
 
Next flight from your home field, note by landmarks (runway striping, etc.) how much runway you use for takeoff and landing with normal technique. Then go to the satellite photo on Google Maps and use the "measure" tool to find out what those distances are. It may surprise you. Then assume that on an unpaved surface, all else being equal, you will use more runway for takeoff and a little less for landing.
 
Pilawt said:
Next flight from your home field, note by landmarks (runway striping, etc.) how much runway you use for takeoff and landing with normal technique. Then go to the satellite photo on Google Maps and use the "measure" tool to find out what those distances are. It may surprise you. Then assume that on an unpaved surface, all else being equal, you will use more runway for takeoff and a little less for landing.
Click to expand...

Less for landing?:confused: You don't get nearly as much braking action on dirt or grass as you do on concrete or asphalt.
 
Pilawt said:
With moderate or greater braking, true. But with no braking, there will be slightly greater rolling resistance in grass or on an uneven or soft dirt surface.
Click to expand...

Yep, rolling resistance is higher in grass, but I suspect most novices coming into 1200' will be exercising heavy braking.:lol:;)
 
arnoha said:
Nope, not disagreeing with any of that. Definitely should be practicing our skills.

My response was a little stronger than I think I intended. Type for a long time and you start to argue against the straw man in your head instead of what was actually in the previous post. And I type for entirely too long most of the time. Didn't mean to be as harsh as how it read.
Click to expand...

I'm offended!




:lol:
 
If you try it OP, when you go to take off if you are not airborne by mid field or even earlier if it's sloped, shut it down and don't hesitate.

If you ever do it with obstacles, aim right for the tree tops after breaking ground. You only have to clear them by a few feet. Gain speed. Altitude can wait.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top