Switching to ground.

denverpilot said:
LOL. That’s a question for @Timbeck2. He trains the newbie controllers to do all that fancy controller stuff, after all. :)

If it meant I didn’t have to wait for our local controller to get back to me on insane days at my home airport, I’d even accept an OSH style, “Immediate turn off into the grass, follow the flagmen... Welcome to Centennial!” LOL LOL LOL.
Click to expand...

Tower can say what they want provided traffic both in the air and on the ground allow it. Even when I'm busy in local I still tell someone to contact ground usually in the same transmission as "exit the runway at (insert taxiway here)" People who switch on their own aren't doing the tower any favors. It isn't a big deal, just until the proper verbiage is changed, I'll keep waiting for the tower to tell me to taxi to park or contact ground.
 
You should clear the runway and continue without stopping till past the hold line before stopping. Under those precise conditions the controller may consider an exiting aircraft as clear of the runway as soon as he clears the runway edge for runway separation purposes. If you stop your forward progress before reaching the hold line even though you are clear of the runway you are still considered on the runway for runway separation purposes.

The controller knows that rule and is required to clear you onto the parallel if by passing the hold line you would encroach upon the parallel.

Then contact ground. If you are prevented from going past the hold line for any reason such as another aircraft then it’s the controllers problem to not use the runway until you are clear whilhich, in that case, is past the hold line.

Tex
 
bobmrg said:
Right on target...Boeing Field has parallel runways, and the linking taxiway belongs to the local controller. I should have said "Once you have crossed the hold line and are on the ramp...."
Click to expand...

For non-locals, it should be noted that at BFI it is not possible to be clear of the short runway's hold line before you cross the long runway's hold line, unless you are on a bicycle or something. There's maybe 10 or 15 feet between 'em.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ao2ZfKDLK3C2
 
slacktide said:
For non-locals, it should be noted that at BFI it is not possible to be clear of the short runway's hold line before you cross the long runway's hold line, unless you are on a bicycle or something. There's maybe 10 or 15 feet between 'em.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ao2ZfKDLK3C2
Click to expand...
And there are other situations as well... such as at KPTK where there is only one hold short line, barring traffic to 27L / 9R from the taxiway side, but you are expected to NOT clear it without contacting Ground when exiting the runway. It's so close to the taxiway that you will be blocking taxiway traffic if you do.
 
azure said:
And there are other situations as well... such as at KPTK where there is only one hold short line, barring traffic to 27L / 9R from the taxiway side, but you are expected to NOT clear it without contacting Ground when exiting the runway. It's so close to the taxiway that you will be blocking taxiway traffic if you do.
Click to expand...

If that’s true and they don’t want you passing the hold line exiting, that’s non-standard and should be labeled a Hot Spot with instructions on the taxi diagram.
 
denverpilot said:
If that’s true and they don’t want you passing the hold line exiting, that’s non-standard and should be labeled a Hot Spot with instructions on the taxi diagram.
Click to expand...
It really should be. It's been that way since I started taking lessons; my very first CFI taught me about it. Zoom in on Google Earth and you'll see it.
 
azure said:
It really should be. It's been that way since I started taking lessons; my very first CFI taught me about it. Zoom in on Google Earth and you'll see it.
Click to expand...

Oh I believe you.

I’ve also seen some high speeds that also give you no chance of being out of the way of opposite direction taxiway traffic because of where their hold lines are painted on them.

The angle is so shallow the hold line has to be painted at the end of it and then you’re nose to nose with whoever was coming the other way down the taxiway.

There’s all sorts of non-standard stuff out there.
 
It's interesting to read how different airports develop their own practice around tower and ground frequencies. At KPWK, a nice class-D field north of Chicago, pilots remain with the tower frequency all the way to parking. On weekends, when the field is superbusy with student pilots, pilots may be occasionally advised to contact ground.

What I also found interesting at KPWK is that when I contacted ground for taxi to take-off, I'd be given a clearance but not advised to monitor on contact tower when ready. So I'd taxi to the pad by the runway, do the runup, and taxi to the hold-short position. Then, without being advised to do so, I'd switch to tower to announce I am ready for departure. That seemed to be the SOP at the airport, i.e., everyone was doing it and no one was telling us not to.
 
GreatLakesFlying said:
It's interesting to read how different airports develop their own practice around tower and ground frequencies. At KPWK, a nice class-D field north of Chicago, pilots remain with the tower frequency all the way to parking. On weekends, when the field is superbusy with student pilots, pilots may be occasionally advised to contact ground.

What I also found interesting at KPWK is that when I contacted ground for taxi to take-off, I'd be given a clearance but not advised to monitor on contact tower when ready. So I'd taxi to the pad by the runway, do the runup, and taxi to the hold-short position. Then, without being advised to do so, I'd switch to tower to announce I am ready for departure. That seemed to be the SOP at the airport, i.e., everyone was doing it and no one was telling us not to.
Click to expand...
Being told by Tower to "stay with me, taxi to parking" is not uncommon at many Class D fields. I've been told that at KPTK, which is one of the busiest fields in Michigan, though not during the busiest times. I've also been told to "monitor Ground .8" but not switch to ground frequency at KASH.
 
azure said:
I've also been told to "monitor Ground .8" but not switch to ground frequency at KASH.
Click to expand...

I treat "monitor ground" the same as "switch to ground". Occasionally, while I am touching down, tower issues a clearance like "Piper 3-5-K, taxi to (wherever) via (letters and numbers), monitor ground (frequency)".

I read back the clearance, then switch to ground, and proceed along the given taxi route, listening ground, but I do not call them to tell them I am on their frequency. I assume that the ground controller knows I am there and will contact me if they want me to stop or amend the taxi clearance.
 
"Monitor ground" IS switch to ground except that you don't talk to ground to request taxi. ATC version of "don't call us, we'll call you."
 
Timbeck2 said:
"Monitor ground" IS switch to ground except that you don't talk to ground to request taxi. ATC version of "don't call us, we'll call you."
Click to expand...
Ah, okay. My 480 can literally monitor the standby freq, so that is what I do, put ground in standby and hit monitor. But I stay with tower on the active freq. If ground contacts me, of course I would switch and reply, but that has never happened.
 
Last edited:
Once the tower says "monitor ground" you don't have to be on tower frequency any more. They're done with you.
 
luvflyin said:
Thanks @abqtj I had quit looking at this thread before this one from @mscard88. Thought I'd see whats been goin on when you just posted and got to see a Cow being beaten to death in a ...........here it comes.........Necro thread
Click to expand...

Glad to help! :D

At least it was only 2 months old, not like some of those 5 year old ones I see bumped.
 
abqtj said:
Glad to help! :D

At least it was only 2 months old, not like some of those 5 year old ones I see bumped.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I was aware it wasn't that old. But I had a punchline that needed sayin and I couldn't wait:D
 
Your responsibility to to exit where told and clear the runway to a point past the hold line. Then you call ground if told to contact ground. Many times local will keep the exiting aircraft on his freq. the way you can tell this is that he will normally say “turn right at Next intersection and taxi to parking ( or contact ground). If he doesn’t tell you to contact ground AND doesn’t give further ya I instructions then clear the runway past the hold line (but hold short of the parallel) and ask him. Sit there past the hold line if necessary but get him to do his job. But never just change freqs on your own EVER. I say this as a 36 year veteran controller and ATC instructor.

And don’t stop short of clearing the hold line because you are not officially off the runway until you do.

tex
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top