Surviving turbulence with queasy passengers

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jenkins said:
It is commonplace for married couples to refer to each other in jokingly disparaging terms.
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That might be credible if you'd had anything respectful to say about her, and if your "joking" disparagement were not in the context of explaining how she must continue to fly with you even if she prefers not to because it literally makes her sick.
 
ne5ugyzy.jpg
 
I sometimes wake up next to that in the morning.

:rofl:
 
jenkins said:
If you can restrict your comments to airsickness and how to mitigate against that I would appreciate it.
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You've already rejected (and declared "undebatable") our most important admonition on that subject, which is to never pressure passengers to fly if they're reluctant because of airsickness (or for any other reason). In fact, your responsibility as PIC includes actively discouraging anyone from flying with you if you can reasonably expect the experience to be unpleasant for them.
 
acrophile said:
You've already rejected (and declared "undebatable") our most important admonition on that subject, which is to never pressure passengers to fly if they're reluctant because of airsickness (or for any other reason). In fact, your responsibility as PIC includes actively discouraging anyone from flying with you if you can reasonably expect the experience to be unpleasant for them.
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Well of course I would never FORCE someone to fly with me. I didn't say that.

One idea I've contemplated is getting her to do the flying. When we drive on a windy road she also gets sick if a passenger but not when driving.
 
I read through some of the posts. I Fly and bought a plane with the understanding that I would be the only one I know that likes flying in it. I have no expectation that anyone else will go anywhere with me ever. It does seat 4 and that statement is not exactly true, some folks want to fly with me, but I'm OK with my original premise.

Also, as far as passenger comfort goes, one woman who's husband owned an airplane she didn't like to fly in told me, there had to be a blanket, because she wanted to try to sleep through the experience.

So for my passenger kit, aside from the usual comfort items, there needs to be a blanket.

Also, I believe my own discomfort as a student was solved by doing 100s of situps and core exercises. I probably still knock out 1000s of crunches in a week. That is one of my exercise motivators today, "situps for flight."

If my gut feels rock hard (at least inside under the layers of lard) I'm fine. Good luck on finding fit passengers though.
 
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jenkins said:
One idea I've contemplated is getting her to do the flying. When we drive on a windy road she also gets sick if a passenger but not when driving.
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If she's amenable to the idea, that might indeed be helpful, especially if you restrict flying at first to calm, cool weather.
 
jenkins said:
I made an investment on getting this plane and now to justify it we have to use it. There is no debate we have to travel this way so it has to work. My wife doesn't like to fly high either. That is how illogical she is you would think she'd figure out being higher is better! LOL!

Wrist bands and oxygen? How does that help?

I am convinced it is psychological. Driving in a truck is a lot more bumpy.
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It is 90% psychological, but that does not make it any less real. Have your bride eat a good stomach filling meal of liquid absorbing food before a flight. Avoid liquids, especially coffee. Liquids slopping around in a stomach, combined with a little bit of fear, is guaranteed to start filling burp bags.

Then there are people who flat out do not like to fly, nothing you can do will change that. You might want to consider that your new toy is your new toy, not hers.

If you bought your airplane as a means of travel for both of you, you might have just thrown your money away.

I also think that you think your wife does not trust in your aviating abilities, so you might be trying to prove your abilities to her. You are finding it upsetting that she does not want to give you the chance. You are probably also upset that she is not worshiping the ground you walk on, in all things that you decide to do, you're forgetting that she is an individual person, not part of you.

Not all pilots get to have spouses that love to fly, and it frustrates many of them. The ones it does not frustrate, continue flying, and having fun on their own, the rest eventually give it up.

-John
 
John Baker said:
It is 90% psychological, but that does not make it any less real. Have your bride eat a good stomach filling meal of liquid absorbing food before a flight. Avoid liquids, especially coffee. Liquids slopping around in a stomach, combined with a little bit of fear, is guaranteed to start filling burp bags.

Then there are people who flat out do not like to fly, nothing you can do will change that. You might want to consider that your new toy is your new toy, not hers.

If you bought your airplane as a means of travel for both of you, you might have just thrown your money away.

I also think that you think your wife does not trust in your aviating abilities, so you might be trying to prove your abilities to her. You are finding it upsetting that she does not want to give you the chance. You are probably also upset that she is not worshiping the ground you walk on, in all things that you decide to do, you're forgetting that she is an individual person, not part of you.

Not all pilots get to have spouses that love to fly, and it frustrates many of them. The ones it does not frustrate, continue flying, and having fun on their own, the rest eventually give it up.

-John
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Couldn't agree more. One thing I learned when it comes to this is, patience.

My wife flies with me now (occasionally), but I had to get over the frustration of wanting her to when she wasn't ready.

On our last few flights, she took a dramamine an hour before we took off and she was in heaven. We took a 40min flight to have dinner and on the way back, she even took the yoke for a few minutes! She was grinning from ear to ear and says she wants to go back to that fabulous restaurant again.:)
She really got a kick out of the fact that we pulled right up to the restaurant, secured the plane and went right in. She said it made her feel special,lol.
 
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radioguy01 said:
They are pure placebo. The idea that two elastic bands with plastic dots putting light pressure on your wrist would treat motion sickness is preposterous.
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Maybe so, maybe not. If a placebo works, then why not use it... My wife is very intolerant to any bumps. At first she would get sick on every flight. then, she tried Dramamine and/or a prescription for anxiety before any flights. They helped, but were not 100% effective either. Does that make them a placebo? We decided that drugs were not the answer because it did not make sense to have her sleepy all day at the destination.

First time we flew 2 hours with the wrist straps, she made it all the way without puking, although she came close once. I tend to fly high for the smoother air and she would get headaches at 10K. When I flew above 12K, she would get O2, and she would feel much better. So, she decided she wanted O2 all the time. With the just the wrist straps plus O2, she can now make 5 hour legs without puking, unless turbulence gets bad. We went 20 hours that way last summer and she puked only once with bumps over the Sierrias. In hindsight, I should have climbed a few Kft higher at the first signs of bumps when approaching the mountains with 40kt headwinds.
 
radioguy01 said:
They are pure placebo. The idea that two elastic bands with plastic dots putting light pressure on your wrist would treat motion sickness is preposterous.
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Placebos offer a legitimate treatment for more than a few psychological ailments, motion sickness being one of them. There is no wrong in employing a physiological cure for a psychological condition. Whatever works is all that really counts.

-John
 
I've not yet tried it, but in Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible" he suggests trying the following:

"When turbulence causes fishtailing, step on the right rudder (one quarter of its travel) and apply left aileron to maintain wings level flight."

He writes that you may need to experiment with rudder pressure. The technique allegedly dampens yaw oscillations. The other thing to do in penetrating turbulence is to slow down.

I would recommend Imeson's book even if you don't plan to do any mountain flying.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I've not yet tried it, but in Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible" he suggests trying the following:

"When turbulence causes fishtailing, step on the right rudder (one quarter of its travel) and apply left aileron to maintain wings level flight."

He writes that you may need to experiment with rudder pressure. The technique allegedly dampens yaw oscillations. The other thing to do in penetrating turbulence is to slow down.

I would recommend Imeson's book even if you don't plan to do any mountain flying.
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I'm hesitant to follow any recommendations from a book written by a guy who crashed twice (the second time fatally) in the mountains.
 
I'm pretty sure someone on the board knew him....I think it might be Ben Haas but don't remember.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I've not yet tried it, but in Sparky Imeson's "Mountain Flying Bible" he suggests trying the following:

"When turbulence causes fishtailing, step on the right rudder (one quarter of its travel) and apply left aileron to maintain wings level flight."

He writes that you may need to experiment with rudder pressure. The technique allegedly dampens yaw oscillations. The other thing to do in penetrating turbulence is to slow down.

I would recommend Imeson's book even if you don't plan to do any mountain flying.
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Interesting! I think the yawing is the issue. I will have to try this technique.
 
DavidWhite said:
I'm pretty sure someone on the board knew him....I think it might be Ben Haas but don't remember.
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Yeah.... He was tied down outside my hangar for several years and I chatted with him numerous times... His dad was the owner of the FBO here for years back in the 60's-70's.....

And,, he had crashed more then 2 times... And done some damn stupid stuf in between... I would NEVER fly with him..:no:...:nono:..
 
That you Pete?

If not, Getting her eyes outside the plane will help.
Relaxing and riding the waves will help. But bring rigid and tense is going to make it worse.

Fly at night.
 
N801BH said:
Yeah.... He was tied down outside my hangar for several years and I chatted with him numerous times... His dad was the owner of the FBO here for years back in the 60's-70's.....

And,, he had crashed more then 2 times... And done some damn stupid stuf in between... I would NEVER fly with him..:no:...:nono:..
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Well... just because he is dead doesn't mean he was not a good pilot. Look at Ayrton Senna. One of the most talented incredible drivers in F1 and he died doing what he loved best. I would have let Ayrton drive me anytime! Same with Sparky. At least he died what he loved doing flying low in the mountains. Rather die that way than drowning in your own phlegm in some nursing home later in life! This is a risky hobby we take part in. Death could happen at any time.

I do have his book but had missed that turbulence tip.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Relaxing and riding the waves will help.
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Sure that sounds good I will just float up and down 1000 feet or so and "ride the waves".

I will give that a shot the next time I head out. Thank you for that incredible advice.

No really, thank you.
 
jenkins said:
Well... just because he is dead doesn't mean he was not a good pilot. Look at Ayrton Senna. One of the most talented incredible drivers in F1 and he died doing what he loved best. I would have let Ayrton drive me anytime! Same with Sparky. At least he died what he loved doing flying low in the mountains. Rather die that way than drowning in your own phlegm in some nursing home later in life! This is a risky hobby we take part in. Death could happen at any time.

I do have his book but had missed that turbulence tip.
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Might want to review exactly what Sparky was doing when he died.

That's not to say that he doesn't have good advice in that book. He does.

But even the best advice doesn't help if you don't follow it.

Shooting photographs solo in the mountains or any time at low altitude is S T U P I D. It's not like his 180 couldn't take one passenger.
 
MAKG1 said:
Might want to review exactly what Sparky was doing when he died.

That's not to say that he doesn't have good advice in that book. He does.

But even the best advice doesn't help if you don't follow it.

Shooting photographs solo in the mountains or any time at low altitude is S T U P I D. It's not like his 180 couldn't take one passenger.
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Perhaps you should take your own advice and review exactly what he was doing. There is no evidence he was shooting photographs solo. He hit power lines. It is good he didn't have a passenger with him.
 
jenkins said:
Perhaps you should take your own advice and review exactly what he was doing. There is no evidence he was shooting photographs solo. He hit power lines. It is good he didn't have a passenger with him.
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Umm, he hit trees and he was flying at very low altitudes over the mountains, VERY much contrary to his advice in his book.

The factual report doesn't say why he was flying, but there are lots of rumors about that. No, it will never be known for sure as no one survived the crash.
 
jenkins said:
Sure that sounds good I will just float up and down 1000 feet or so and "ride the waves".

I will give that a shot the next time I head out. Thank you for that incredible advice.

No really, thank you.
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If you are floating up and down "1000 feet or so", it is isn't turbulence, it is your inability to hold altitude. You are a VERY poor pretend pilot and need to consider getting out of the game. Best way to do this is fly really low to the ground and when it gets bumpy, just roll 180 and pull.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
If you are floating up and down "1000 feet or so", it is isn't turbulence, it is your inability to hold altitude. You are a VERY poor pretend pilot and need to consider getting out of the game. Best way to do this is fly really low to the ground and when it gets bumpy, just roll 180 and pull.
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Actually, you can see updrafts and downdrafts like that in mountain conditions when the wind is blasting. That's why people will tell you to stay out of the high mountains if it's more than 25 knots at altitude, particularly if it's directly across a high ridge.

Mountain waves in particular can give you thousands of FPM (either up or down) in the worst case, but generally it's pretty smooth unless you find the rotor.

It's a good idea to "ride" normal ridge lift, unless there is some reason to fight it (I see that frequently in the context of Class B -- either avoiding the floor or with an assigned altitude). This is the rule, not the exception. You'll see ridge lift and sink anytime you cross a ridge with any significant wind. And unless it's really stable conditions, you expect some bumps near the top and on the lee side.

I once found enough of this in the local (~3000 foot) mountains to make a Vno climb at full power in a 172. It's kinda cool to make a 500+ FPM climb at 125 KIAS in an airplane that normally can't cruise that fast.

But I think you're right about Pete.

Pete, get a life.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
If you are floating up and down "1000 feet or so", it is isn't turbulence, it is your inability to hold altitude. You are a VERY poor pretend pilot and need to consider getting out of the game. Best way to do this is fly really low to the ground and when it gets bumpy, just roll 180 and pull.
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Who is Pete?

I am very sorry if I have offended you. This was not my intention. I can tell that you are intensely irritated by me which I don't really understand but whatever I said that got you to this point is entirely unintentional.

Now on to "riding the waves", the following is a conversation I do not want to have...

Center: 6PC I'm showing some erratic altutudes. Say present altitude.
6PC: Um, er, right now 8430.
Center: 6PC, Ma'am, your clearance is to maintain 8000!
6PC: Um, right, I'm riding the wave.
Center: 6PC are you unable to hold altitude? You were not cleared for a block altitude. State intentions.
6PC. Er, yes, um, 6PC requests to ride the wave. Got a vomiter on board.
Center: Negative Ma'am, maintain 8000.


So with all due respects to you, 6PC, I have to reject your advice. Please do not be offended. I apologize in advance for any offense you have received. Please do not report me to the Mods.

Thank you.
 
MAKG1 said:
Actually, you can see updrafts and downdrafts like that in mountain conditions when the wind is blasting. That's why people will tell you to stay out of the high mountains if it's more than 25 knots at altitude, particularly if it's directly across a high ridge.

Mountain waves in particular can give you thousands of FPM (either up or down) in the worst case, but generally it's pretty smooth unless you find the rotor.

It's a good idea to "ride" normal ridge lift, unless there is some reason to fight it (I see that frequently in the context of Class B -- either avoiding the floor or with an assigned altitude). This is the rule, not the exception. You'll see ridge lift and sink anytime you cross a ridge with any significant wind. And unless it's really stable conditions, you expect some bumps near the top and on the lee side.

I once found enough of this in the local (~3000 foot) mountains to make a Vno climb at full power in a 172. It's kinda cool to make a 500+ FPM climb at 125 KIAS in an airplane that normally can't cruise that fast.

But I think you're right about Pete.

Pete, get a life.
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Well this post was pretty good until you lost it at the end. Pity. Now you have lost all credibility with me.
 
So which is it again Pete?

"Yawing?"
Or the "1000 ft up and down"
As you stated it is "no more bumpy than a truck"
 
jenkins said:
Who is Pete?

I am very sorry if I have offended you. This was not my intention. I can tell that you are intensely irritated by me which I don't really understand but whatever I said that got you to this point is entirely unintentional.

Now on to "riding the waves", the following is a conversation I do not want to have...

Center: 6PC I'm showing some erratic altutudes. Say present altitude.
6PC: Um, er, right now 8430.
Center: 6PC, Ma'am, your clearance is to maintain 8000!
6PC: Um, right, I'm riding the wave.
Center: 6PC are you unable to hold altitude? You were not cleared for a block altitude. State intentions.
6PC. Er, yes, um, 6PC requests to ride the wave. Got a vomiter on board.
Center: Negative Ma'am, maintain 8000.


So with all due respects to you, 6PC, I have to reject your advice. Please do not be offended. I apologize in advance for any offense you have received. Please do not report me to the Mods.

Thank you.
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Also you are pilot in command. You do what you want with your plane. I never told you to ride any waves. I suggested you tell your passenger to ride the wave and not fight the bumps. Fighting them will make it worse.

I can tell your inability to pay attention to detail has put you on the defense now and you feel confused and are starting to question yourself. It is making you lash out at people on the thread that are superior pilots than you.

I feel bad that is having this affect on you but try to not let it get to you. Just slow down. Learn to read, listen, and pay attention, and you may one day be marginally effective at piloting an aircraft..
 
N801BH said:
Now lil Ben is confused.....

Who the heck is Pete..:dunno::dunno::confused:
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Jenkins reeks of Pete Flemming. Troll that shows up from time to time peppers threads with bits of aviation questions then adds in some superiority, a splash of arrogance, some apologies, then the trademark is the putting feelings, emotions, etc on other posters to get a response.

The dead give away is the poster who posts something unrelated and Pete / Jenkins will add "apology accepted" He loves to accept apologies that weren't given.

Original Pete thread:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63701

"Jenkins" Latest "Apology accepted" post:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1408051#post1408051

And the occasional blatant insult
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1407573#post1407573
 
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Well in that case I retract my apology!

You all suck! (Disclaimer: I mean that with the utmost respect and is not intended to be an accurate reflection of my actual feelings towards any of you).
 
jenkins said:
Well in that case I retract my apology!

You all suck! (Disclaimer: I mean that with the utmost respect and is not intended to be an accurate reflection of my actual feelings towards any of you).
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Apology accepted
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
If you are floating up and down "1000 feet or so", it is isn't turbulence, it is your inability to hold altitude. You are a VERY poor pretend pilot and need to consider getting out of the game. Best way to do this is fly really low to the ground and when it gets bumpy, just roll 180 and pull.
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You've never been flying in a single-engine airplane thru the Rockies, I take it? :rofl:

The altitude "excursions" of +/- 1000 feet happen literally a couple seconds apart when in "real" turbulence. Those thermals we get to experience here in Texas are but a tiny fraction of what you can get to experience in the mountains. My first time in the mountains, I got the "baptism by fire" education in what the textbooks call "moderate to severe" turbulence and damn glad I was in an aircraft rated for +6/-3Gs.
 
Neal Howard said:
You've never been flying in a single-engine airplane thru the Rockies, I take it? :rofl:

The altitude "excursions" of +/- 1000 feet happen literally a couple seconds apart when in "real" turbulence. Those thermals we get to experience here in Texas are but a tiny fraction of what you can get to experience in the mountains. My first time in the mountains, I got the "baptism by fire" education in what the textbooks call "moderate to severe" turbulence and damn glad I was in an aircraft rated for +6/-3Gs.
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That's insane. I will stay here and battle the Texas Thermals.
Doesn't make Jenkins any less of a troll though. ;)
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
That's insane. I will stay here and battle the Texas Thermals.
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You gotta do battle with the mountain turbulence if you want to see sights like these from your own plane. It's worth the trouble.

Flying across the southern deserts of Mars... uh, I mean Wyoming..
IMG_7283.JPG


Bear Lake
IMG_7589.JPG


Johnson Creek
IMG_7335.JPG


Lenticular clouds with wings :hairraise:
IMG_7572.JPG
 
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