Survey – Decline of Personal General Aviation

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Timbo70

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Timbo70
Hello everyone, I am a fellow GA pilot and a graduate student at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University working on my capstone project (aka thesis). I am conducting a survey of US certificated pilots (sport/recreational and above) as part of my research into isolating the factors most responsible for the decline in personal/recreational general aviation flight activity during the last 15 years. I would greatly appreciate if you could take a few moments of your time to participate in the survey. The data you provide may assist in better understanding why PGA flight activity is in decline and lead to more focused efforts towards reversing the decline.

The survey is located at the following URL and will be open from 2 to 18 Feb 13.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/pgadecline2

Anyone interested in receiving a copy of the final paper or the research proposal can e-mail me at: timmonst@my.erau.edu

Thank you for your assistance,
Tim Timmons, COM AMEL, CFI
 
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Operating costs have gone up at a higher rate in the past 10 years than incomes have. That's pretty much it. We can say it's regulations, or we can say it's this, or that, but it comes down to money. That's going to be the reason for 90% of the people out there. Want to reverse the decline. Get everyone massive raises, or get the fuel costs to stay in line with incomes.
 
The survey hardly touched on someo of my main reasons for decreased flying hours and why I sold my aircraft.

1) TSA/DHS
2) Equippage requrement
 
Bob Noel said:
The survey hardly touched on someo of my main reasons for decreased flying hours and why I sold my aircraft.

1) TSA/DHS
2) Equippage requrement
Click to expand...

I agree that the survey should have addressed the security issues at many larger GA airports. It definitely has pushed some folks over the edge. It also makes an unattractive environment for new pilot starts. I think it did cover the future equipment requirements.

Like a lot of surveys, this one was designed to get the desired answers the author wants to support his thesis, not to get at all possible answers to a problem. There are lots of reasons that people quit flying and few start up. Not all of them have to do with costs. I do agree though, that costs are number one on the list.
 
Dav8or said:
.....Like a lot of surveys, this one was designed to get the desired answers the author wants to support his thesis, not to get at all possible answers to a problem. ....
Click to expand...


Another GOOD reason to not trust ERAU graduates....:yes::(
 
I saw this survey on the RedBoard and participated. I never post on the AOPA forum anymore . I believe one thing the Survey failed to open up is Pilots believing they are God Like and squashing less experienced pilots/students as if they were bugs on the windscreen.
I had purchased two airplanes and back into flying with both feet so to speak . I was seriously discouraged and encouraged by the access to information afforded by the internet.
 
EdFred said:
Operating costs have gone up at a higher rate in the past 10 years than incomes have. That's pretty much it. We can say it's regulations, or we can say it's this, or that, but it comes down to money. That's going to be the reason for 90% of the people out there. Want to reverse the decline. Get everyone massive raises, or get the fuel costs to stay in line with incomes.
Click to expand...

And time. With all our electronic gadgets we work harder, play online more, and feel withdrawal when in the air. "Hours of boredom punctuated with moments of sheer fright"....

When it's a 45+ minute trip each way to the airport & you gotta deal with the SFRA, it adds at least an hour compared to flying when I lived in Cincinnnati and San Antonio.
 
Most GA airports in Florida now look like some sort of Federal Prison.
When I was a kid growing up in South Florida I was able to ride my bicycle to the local airport
to watch the pilots prepare their planes and I would watch them taxi and take-off.
This was all done while I was standing a reasonable distance to the taxiway or runway.
Lately you would be lucky if you can even get close to the ramp area without having to go
through a twelve foot high barbed wired fence and security gates with cameras.
Where the next generation of pilots will come from I have no idea, but I guess with the advent of the drones it won't really matter much.
 
Why limit a GA survey to private up? Seems like sport pilot/recreational pilots would add significantly to your audience.


-VanDy
 
EdFred said:
Operating costs have gone up at a higher rate in the past 10 years than incomes have. That's pretty much it. We can say it's regulations, or we can say it's this, or that, but it comes down to money. That's going to be the reason for 90% of the people out there. Want to reverse the decline. Get everyone massive raises, or get the fuel costs to stay in line with incomes.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... I don't think so, apparently it's not expensive enough http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56452
 
I think maintaining medicals is troublesome to some of the older guys...since we do not have new guys coming in as quickly as we have older guys quitting and having to sell their birds.

I'd like to see the drivers license replace the 3rd class medical.

EdFred said:
Operating costs have gone up at a higher rate in the past 10 years than incomes have. That's pretty much it. We can say it's regulations, or we can say it's this, or that, but it comes down to money. That's going to be the reason for 90% of the people out there. Want to reverse the decline. Get everyone massive raises, or get the fuel costs to stay in line with incomes.
Click to expand...
 
VanDy said:
Why limit a GA survey to private up? Seems like sport pilot/recreational pilots would add significantly to your audience.


-VanDy
Click to expand...

VanDy,

My apology, this survey is in fact open to sport and recreational pilots. Thank you for the catch.

v/r
Tim
 
Bob Noel said:
The survey hardly touched on someo of my main reasons for decreased flying hours and why I sold my aircraft.

1) TSA/DHS
2) Equippage requrement
Click to expand...


Bob,

NextGEN equippage is addressed in follow on questions for those who answer in the affirm on aircraft ownership.

v/r
Tim
 
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Sleepingsquirrel said:
I believe one thing the Survey failed to open up is Pilots believing they are God Like and squashing less experienced pilots/students as if they were bugs on the windscreen.
Click to expand...

Agreed... I wonder how that actually effects pilot population.
 
Re: Survey – Decline of Personal General Aviation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dav8or
.....Like a lot of surveys, this one was designed to get the desired answers the author wants to support his thesis, not to get at all possible answers to a problem. ....


Another GOOD reason to not trust ERAU graduates....:yes::(

Gentlemen,

The survey is one of several research instruments being used to better understand the problem. Conclusions will not be drawn exclusively from this single survey. The scope of the thesis is narrow and only designed to explore three factors: pilot population, fleet size, and operating cost.

v/r
Tim
 
If this is the level of crap that gets a person through ERAU, I pity their students. Took the survey nonetheless.
 
Henning said:
If this is the level of crap that gets a person through ERAU, I pity their students. Took the survey nonetheless.
Click to expand...

I assume it's just for the masters degree.
 
Timbo70 said:
Re: Survey – Decline of Personal General Aviation
Originally Posted by Dav8or
.....Like a lot of surveys, this one was designed to get the desired answers the author wants to support his thesis, not to get at all possible answers to a problem. ....


Another GOOD reason to not trust ERAU graduates....:yes::(
Click to expand...

Gentlemen,

The survey is one of several research instruments being used to better understand the problem. Conclusions will not be drawn exclusively from this single survey. The scope of the thesis is narrow and only designed to explore three factors: pilot population, fleet size, and operating cost.

v/r
Tim
Click to expand...

What is that supposed to be good for?
 
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Come on guys, we do this every time someone comes here with a survey for a thesis, especially if they are from ERAU. ERAU doesn't just teach pilots, a lot of people that come out of there are engineers, meteorologists, controllers, ect... Even the pilots that come out of there are taught to be airline pilots, they have no experience with general aviation. They don't know that an ADSB is expensive, as far as their concerned company will pay for it.
Give these guys a break.
 
Henning said:
What is that supposed to be good for?
Click to expand...
{snide mode on}
He gets to graduate. Has there ever been an original capstone project from ERAU? Remember, these students do not take statistics theory but how to use Excel statistical functions, do not understand how to create a meaningful analytical instrument.

I only wish when I was writing my thesis I had a captive audience that I could survey. Oh wait - my thesis had no reason to have any survey or statistics. I had to do real original work, defend it to the graduate committee and get it published in a refereed journal.

Maybe I should have gone to ERAU - definitely easier.
{snide mode off}
 
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Timbo70 said:
Gentlemen,

The survey is one of several research instruments being used to better understand the problem. Conclusions will not be drawn exclusively from this single survey. The scope of the thesis is narrow and only designed to explore three factors: pilot population, fleet size, and operating cost.

v/r
Tim
Click to expand...

I hope you do look at all the angles. I took the survey gladly. I have no problem helping out a fellow aviation enthusiast. I just trust that you do know there are multiple reasons the pilot population and GA is in decline and they don't all stem from expense.
 
MachFly said:
Come on guys, we do this every time someone comes here with a survey for a thesis, especially if they are from ERAU. ERAU doesn't just teach pilots, a lot of people that come out of there are engineers, meteorologists, controllers, ect... Even the pilots that come out of there are taught to be airline pilots, they have no experience with general aviation. They don't know that an ADSB is expensive, as far as their concerned company will pay for it.
Give these guys a break.
Click to expand...

I have nothing but respect for the engineering or meteorology students. But we don't see them here. All we see are the "Aeronautics" maybe the "Aviation Business" seniors trying to graduate. Get one of the PhD students in Engineering Physics or Aerospace Engineering and we'll happily support their capstone project.

Maybe I should look into the PhD in Aviation or PhD in Aerospace Engineering. But at $3K+ per course, and the dissertation alone is $54K+, that's a bit steep when the same number of hours for a PhD at the public universities in Colorado is under $25K. And I'd rather have the AE from Univ of Colorado than ERAU.
 
murphey said:
{snide mode on}
He gets to graduate. Has there ever been an original capstone project from ERAU? Remember, these students do not take statistics theory but how to use Excel statistical functions, do not understand how to create a meaningful analytical instrument.

I only wish when I was writing my thesis I had a captive audience that I could survey. Oh wait - my thesis had no reason to have any survey or statistics. I had to do real original work, defend it to the graduate committee and get it published in a refereed journal.

Maybe I should have gone to ERAU - definitely easier.
{snide mode off}
Click to expand...

Should have left snide mode off. Now you just look pompous.:rolleyes:
 
SkyHog said:
What the hell is PGA?
Click to expand...
Personal ga? Or a golf tournament. Probably those reckless hobby pilot jerkwads, the people kidswith shiny jet syndrrome look down on and worn out working pilots envy.
 
Sleepingsquirrel said:
I saw this survey on the RedBoard and participated. I never post on the AOPA forum anymore . I believe one thing the Survey failed to open up is Pilots believing they are God Like and squashing less experienced pilots/students as if they were bugs on the windscreen.
I had purchased two airplanes and back into flying with both feet so to speak . I was seriously discouraged and encouraged by the access to information afforded by the internet.
Click to expand...

Absolutely in agreement. There are some great pilots out there who encourage open dialog and are constructive. But it does seem, especially behind the screen of anonymity afforded to posters in forums, that many pilots are more interested in self promotion, shielded behind a massive veil of attitude, and generally trying to prove to everyone else how much they know at the expense of, or discouragement of, less experienced pilots. As I said, there are many exceptions and they really are gems. I, for one, appreciate you. The other majority make this Darwin's fraternity.
 
SkyHog said:
What the hell is PGA?
Click to expand...

The survey leaves out a good portion of GA like business use. It appears to be oriented only towards personal/recreation and not include personal/business...
 
skidoo said:
The survey leaves out a good portion of GA like business use. It appears to be oriented only towards personal/recreation and not include personal/business...
Click to expand...

That's why he referred to it as PGA (personal general aviation)
 
murphey said:
{snide mode on}

I only wish when I was writing my thesis I had a captive audience that I could survey. Oh wait - my thesis had no reason to have any survey or statistics. I had to do real original work, defend it to the graduate committee and get it published in a refereed journal.

{snide mode off}
Click to expand...


++1 :yesnod:

:redface:
 
murphey said:
I have nothing but respect for the engineering or meteorology students. But we don't see them here. All we see are the "Aeronautics" maybe the "Aviation Business" seniors trying to graduate. Get one of the PhD students in Engineering Physics or Aerospace Engineering and we'll happily support their capstone project.

Maybe I should look into the PhD in Aviation or PhD in Aerospace Engineering. But at $3K+ per course, and the dissertation alone is $54K+, that's a bit steep when the same number of hours for a PhD at the public universities in Colorado is under $25K. And I'd rather have the AE from Univ of Colorado than ERAU.
Click to expand...

Even if it is Aeronautics and Aviation Business they are still not supposed to know how GA works, we can help them out.
 
In the last few months I have been looking for a good instructor to help me sharpen my flying skills, you would think that it would be a fairly straight forward task requiring little if no effort but you would be wrong.
Finding a decent flight instructor along with a decent flight school has become a nightmare.

If I was a young man or woman just starting out and I ran into as much incompetance and arrogance as I have I would look to another career.

I understand that pilots should be very confident in their abilities but confidence and arrogance are not one and the same.

As for the flight schools, way too many have outdated equipment and charging the same rate as the schools with the new equipment.

If you're renting a 1978 Cessna 152 or 172 the depreciated aircraft should be reflected in the hourly rate.

As for the flight schools with the all glass buildings that match their all glass fleet, great for you in having a very modern fleet and multi-million dollar facilities but please don't expect the average Joe or Josephine to come walking into your palace of unlimited wealth.

I have spent over $600 in the last few months trying to find the perfect fit of instructor and aircraft and I'm begining to believe that it doesn't exsist and I'll just have to compromise my standards.

Use that in your survey.
 
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Timbo70 said:
Bob,

NextGEN equippage is addressed in follow on questions for those who answer in the affirm on aircraft ownership.

v/r
Tim
Click to expand...

Hence "hardly" in my post.
 
flav8r said:
In the last few months I have been looking for a good instructor to help me sharpen my flying skills, you would think that it would be a fairly straight forward task requiring little if no effort but you would be wrong.
Finding a decent flight instructor along with a decent flight school has become a nightmare.

If I was a young man or woman just starting out and I ran into as much incompetance and arrogance as I have I would look to another career.

I understand that pilots should be very confident in their abilities but confidence and arrogance are not one and the same.

As for the flight schools, way too many have outdated equipment and charging the same rate as the schools with the new equipment.

If you're renting a 1978 Cessna 152 or 172 the depreciated aircraft should be reflected in the hourly rate.

I have spent over $600 in the last few months trying to find the perfect fit of instructor and aircraft and I'm begining to believe that it doesn't exsist and I'll just have to compromise my standards.

Use that in your survey.
Click to expand...

Is fuel cheaper for older airplanes?
 
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