Supporting your Local Airport by helping out / buying stuff?

[Rob Schaffer]

Question for you guys. I'm currently training, started at Wings Field in Blue Bell, and now doing the majority of my training at Perkiomen Valley (N10). Along the course so far, I've found that there are things that an airport should have, and this one doesn't for some reason or another.

My instructor's office is a little un-organized, but good. There is a dry erase board that is in pretty bad shape, and one day my instructor came in to find it written on with permanent marker. After cleaning it up with a little rubbing alcohol, it was ok to use, but there were no dry erase markers around. That weekend, I purchased my instructor a Dry Erase set, 4 markers with cleaner and an eraser, for only a few dollars at Wal-Mart. She really appreciated it when I gave it to her for my next ground school lesson and has been using it since.

Since then, I've been compelled to help in one way or another. None of the C152's have cowl plugs or pitot covers. I asked my instructor, and she said they haven't had them for years,... Hmm,.. I thought,.. I could get some, not a big deal.

I've even thought about making a Taxiway ALPHA sign with Runway 9-27, like you would see at PNE or LNS. Since we have non-standard lighting, I figured I could make some nice FAA sized signage, even have it laminated at Sign-a-rama or made in plexiglass.

Anyone else ever help out like this? I mean, we're pilots who all use the facilities, and while not directly our responsibility to pay for them or maintain them, it is our General Aviation, and what we put into it we get out of it. Perkiomen is a privately owned, public use facility, and they are hoping to make improvements in a few stages. Currently, they are trying to take down some trees and they are planning a PAPI approach to be installed.

Before just buying pitot covers or cowl plugs, would you talk to the owner first? Its a great school, and a very relaxed atmosphere.... just tight on money from every angle from what I can tell.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

Your call, but I figure pilots pay for the services with fuel purchases, tiedown fees, etc. If the airport owner wants to make improvements, the feds and PennDOT will pay around 95% of the cost.

So my answer is no, I wouldn't do what you're proposing.

 

[Gary]

As Bob said, I guess it's your call. Every airport is a bit different in how it runs and the financial resources it has. From my limited knowledge, neither Wings or Perk have an active pilots group that involve the airport owners or FBO. Quakertown does have a pretty active group that does help out with some airport improvements/operations and I do know that some other airports do as well.

It was nice of you to help out with a few low cost things that made life easier for you, but going ahead to purchase cowl plugs or airport signage is probably more than I'd do in that situation.

Maybe here's your shot and starting a local group, it's tough to do (sort of like herding cats ), but can be rewarding in the long run.

Gary

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Wings definitely has what it needs and can afford it from my limited time there. The staff was great, line service, airport care and maintance, etc was on the Up-n-Up. Perkiomen is quite a different atmosphere, and only has one guy, Abe, who works day in and day out to maintain the planes and the field. Feel bad when it comes to shoveling or mowing,.. that's a lot of work for one guy.

I agree there is a limit, as the money I would spend would be limited on things as I am only 1/4 way though my training time. The planes need work and attention,.. I'd rather see my training money go to those maintenance items.

Maybe an "Airport Appreciation Day" aka,.. Work Day, is possible with a group of the pilots that are regulars there. Something to think about. I just feel that I can do something, and that I should do what I can,... maybe a chat with Abe is needed to see where I may be able to help out occasionally.

 

[silver-eagle]

Before you go declaring them bankrupt, I'd look around to see what else they have for assets. Often times, business owners don't put back into the company what they take out for profit. Not saying this is the case, but you do need to be aware of the situation. You might do well by asking the owner directly. You might find they have a number of plans in the works and are just waiting for funding.

 

[kevin47881]

Rob -
If you feel compelled to help, I definitely recommend speaking with "Abe" b4 dropping money that could be used finishing your ticket as opposed to other things. I am assuming you're not independently wealthy.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Definitely not wealthy.... been saving for almost a year now to get through this without CC payments. I'll chat with him this week at one of my lessons to see if there's anything I could do to help out every once in a while.

 

[tonycondon]

yea there are probably things you could do volunteer wise that would be more of a benefit to the airport than buying stuff.

 

[AdamZ]

Rob, we have all been concerned with N10 since the owner died a few years ago. I'd hate to see any place close down. The markers were a nice thing to do. but Cowl Plugs or pitot covers is going above and beyond IMHO and making Taxiway signs is WAY above and beyond.. Gary had it right. If you want to start a pilots group thats a good thing but N10 is a business.

I'd say use your money to get the ticket. If you really feel compelled to do something else go get a bunch of old tennis balls and punch two holes in them. Get a peice of red fabric or plastic about one foot long and tie a knot in one end and push it through one of the holes then put the other hole over the Pitot tube. Voila instant and cheap pitot cover. I'd still ask Abe if its ok.

 

[Tristar]

I don't see anything wrong with buying little things, especially things that help you as a student. Anything really large and, like these guys mentioned, I'd ask for help or maybe just let the company take care of it.

I used to volunteer my time constantly washing the training fleet before I moved off to college.

 

[rmciottijr]

Rob,

When I started my training at Brandywine most of the planes had Cowl Plugs made form seat cushion foam and a rope with a large washer to keep the rope form pulling through. Also you might be able to find a rubber cap at Home Depot like the one below add a key ring or wire a red flag (not sure how much that would cost).

Bob

 

[Tristar]

I have a biplane buddy that uses a rubber chicken as a pitot tube cover. Its quite a conversation piece!

 

[gprellwitz]

Your call, but I figure pilots pay for the services with fuel purchases, tiedown fees, etc. If the airport owner wants to make improvements, the feds and PennDOT will pay around 95% of the cost.

So my answer is no, I wouldn't do what you're proposing.

I agree with your conclusion, but I'm not sure about the matching funds for PRIVATELY owned, public use airports.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

Thanks for the ideas guys. I'll post an update later this week after I talk to Abe and see what the outlook for Perkiomen is, and how I can help out.

Adam,.. that tennis ball is a good idea, but I also can see the Valley Forge Cadets tossing them around.... "Go Long"

 

[RotaryWingBob]

I agree with your conclusion, but I'm not sure about the matching funds for PRIVATELY owned, public use airports.

Grant, my home airport is pilot owned, public use. Over the last 2 or 3 years, we got matching funds for runway resurfacing, new r/w and taxiway lighting, ASOS and a couple of other things that don't immediately come to mind, all in all, several million bucks. The price the airport pays for the funds is a restriction that it has to be operated as an airport for a bunch of years.

 

[gprellwitz]

Grant, my home airport is pilot owned, public use. Over the last 2 or 3 years, we got matching funds for runway resurfacing, new r/w and taxiway lighting, ASOS and a couple of other things that don't immediately come to mind, all in all, several million bucks. The price the airport pays for the funds is a restriction that it has to be operated as an airport for a bunch of years.

Thanks, that's great to know!

 

[flyersfan31]

Before you go declaring them bankrupt, I'd look around to see what else they have for assets. Often times, business owners don't put back into the company what they take out for profit. Not saying this is the case, but you do need to be aware of the situation. You might do well by asking the owner directly. You might find they have a number of plans in the works and are just waiting for funding.

Virtually nothing. I'd call it a shoestring operation but they don't really have the laces. Once the owner died and Penn Avionics pulled out they've been hurting. Not enough revenues to upgrade (like paving the rutted taxiways) and no one will go there until they do. It's very old school. The clock is ticking - it's just a matter of time before Abe decides he'd rather sit by the pool in Florida and takes a developer's offer for the land.

 

[Graueradler]

We've had people help out (Municipal Airport). The pilots assoc. occaisionally does "Pilot work days" to help with odd jobs around the airport. One person supplied the labor to put a concrete floor in the hangar he rents from us with us paying for the material. We got an improved hangar. His sweat equity keeps him in it at the same rent as before for a considerable period. One donated a radio he no longer had any use for if we would pay the last repair. It is a slide in spare for our base station (unicom) radio (VAL) that he had had repaired at the factory.

 

[bsdunek]

Wings definitely has what it needs and can afford it from my limited time there. The staff was great, line service, airport care and maintance, etc was on the Up-n-Up. Perkiomen is quite a different atmosphere, and only has one guy, Abe, who works day in and day out to maintain the planes and the field. Feel bad when it comes to shoveling or mowing,.. that's a lot of work for one guy.

I agree there is a limit, as the money I would spend would be limited on things as I am only 1/4 way though my training time. The planes need work and attention,.. I'd rather see my training money go to those maintenance items.

Maybe an "Airport Appreciation Day" aka,.. Work Day, is possible with a group of the pilots that are regulars there. Something to think about. I just feel that I can do something, and that I should do what I can,... maybe a chat with Abe is needed to see where I may be able to help out occasionally.

I think you have a good idea. One thing - is the flying/instructor service part of the airport or a seperate business? If seperate, they probably can't qualify for any kind of matching federal funds.
In any case, I think helping out in small but important ways is a good thing all around. The idea of a 'pilots airport work day' is good too. Labor may be more valuable than buying stuff.
Years ago, my Dad was based at a small airport, and being a retired farmer, kept his Farmall there. When the airport truck with snowplow broke down, he would plow the runway and taxiways. Often he would get a tank of fuel free for his efforts. It just made things nicer all around. B)

 

[Steve]

At our little public-owned airport I ended up on the airport board to promote improvements on the field. I'm involved in obtaining the gov't grants for big ticket items, but I still donate to the county for a lot needed items that improve the utility and safety of the airport, mowing equipment, hangar lighting, cleaning supplies, etc. It all depends on how much you value the use of the airport, I suppose. Here we're outnumbered by the non-flying public so it is a continual effort to demonstrate the desireability of a well maintained GA airport to the uninformed. It's an easier argument when you can speak from a position of personal commitment to the airport's well-being. If there's no one looking out for the airport's best interest as a whole there will be someone looking out for their own self-interest which may be in conflict with the airport's, ihmo.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

At our little public-owned airport I ended up on the airport board to promote improvements on the field. I'm involved in obtaining the gov't grants for big ticket items, but I still donate to the county for a lot needed items that improve the utility and safety of the airport, mowing equipment, hangar lighting, cleaning supplies, etc. It all depends on how much you value the use of the airport, I suppose. Here we're outnumbered by the non-flying public so it is a continual effort to demonstrate the desireability of a well maintained GA airport to the uninformed. It's an easier argument when you can speak from a position of personal commitment to the airport's well-being. If there's no one looking out for the airport's best interest as a whole there will be someone looking out for their own self-interest which may be in conflict with the airport's, ihmo.

I agree with all of that, but I think it really makes a good argument for pilot owned airports. Possibly that might be made to happen at N10 where I keep hearing the airport is up for sale.

In our case (and this happened a few years before I moved to PA), the airport was up for sale and a group of pilots decided to try to engineer a buyout. They raised capital by selling airport shares (1 share got you a tie-down, 2 shares a T-hangar, 4 shares a "corporate" hangar big enough for a large a/c). Then they sold off some of the airport land for office use.

Certainly this can't be made to work everywhere, but KOQN and Adam's BBQ airport (KLOM) are proof that pilot owned airports can work.

 

[Gary]

Certainly this can't be made to work everywhere, but KOQN and Adam's BBQ airport (KLOM) are proof that pilot owned airports can work.

LOM is pilot owned?? That's news to me!! But then I guess I dodn't know exactly who owned it.

Gary

 

[Steve]

If I could afford a privately owned airport believe me I'd own one. And if pilots were the only ones who benefitted from airports I'd say they should all be privately owned, but I hope we as pilots understand that their value extends beyond the direct user and transcends being merely a transportation portal. Sorry for waxing philosophical, but if we're not here to improve the lot of those around us, why bother. There are givers and takers. I try to be more of the former and less of the latter...but I don't always succeed. We're just trying to make our little airport a community asset which even non-flyers can accept as a valuable local resource and support its continued viablity.

I agree with all of that, but I think it really makes a good argument for pilot owned airports. Possibly that might be made to happen at N10 where I keep hearing the airport is up for sale.

In our case (and this happened a few years before I moved to PA), the airport was up for sale and a group of pilots decided to try to engineer a buyout. They raised capital by selling airport shares (1 share got you a tie-down, 2 shares a T-hangar, 4 shares a "corporate" hangar big enough for a large a/c). Then they sold off some of the airport land for office use.

Certainly this can't be made to work everywhere, but KOQN and Adam's BBQ airport (KLOM) are proof that pilot owned airports can work.

 

[Graueradler]

If I could afford a privately owned airport believe me I'd own one. And if pilots were the only ones who benefitted from airports I'd say they should all be privately owned, but I hope we as pilots understand that their value extends beyond the direct user and transcends being merely a transportation portal. Sorry for waxing philosophical, but if we're not here to improve the lot of those around us, why bother. There are givers and takers. I try to be more of the former and less of the latter...but I don't always succeed. We're just trying to make our little airport a community asset which even non-flyers can accept as a valuable local resource and support its continued viablity.

BRAVO! Steve

 

[kevin47881]

If I could afford a privately owned airport believe me I'd own one. And if pilots were the only ones who benefitted from airports I'd say they should all be privately owned, but I hope we as pilots understand that their value extends beyond the direct user and transcends being merely a transportation portal. Sorry for waxing philosophical, but if we're not here to improve the lot of those around us, why bother. There are givers and takers. I try to be more of the former and less of the latter...but I don't always succeed. We're just trying to make our little airport a community asset which even non-flyers can accept as a valuable local resource and support its continued viablity.

Dang Steve, that is one of the most well stated comments I have ever read.

 

[AdamZ]

LOM is pilot owned?? That's news to me!! But then I guess I dodn't know exactly who owned it.

Gary

Yeah I bought it about four years ago with the proceeds from the flybq But seriously yes is is pilot owned. They were looking into it being county owned but the neighbors weren't to happy with that. Then again they aren't to happy with it regarless of who owns it.

 

[Henning]

Definitely not wealthy.... been saving for almost a year now to get through this without CC payments. I'll chat with him this week at one of my lessons to see if there's anything I could do to help out every once in a while.

From what you said earlier, I bet he would more appreciate some help with mowing, shovelling... which may leave him more time for maintaining planes.