Sully

SkyHog said:
Have you seen all of the drafts? If not, you can’t say for sure any more than I can.

All I can go off is the fact that the NTSB simply loves finding pilots responsible for everything.
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All I can go off of is the fact that the pilots involved say that it didn't go down as depicted. It had about as much relation to reality as the Iranian police cars chasing a departing 747 down the runway in the movie Argo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(2012_film)#Historical_inaccuracies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sully_(film)#Controversy
 
denverpilot said:
The movie, in this regard, is a steaming pile of BS designed to have a story arc and engage an audience.
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Well, yes, but the entire purpose of the movie was to engage and entertain an audience. Had it done otherwise it would have been a failure.

I suppose they could have used the NTSB transcripts and the cockpit recordings in place of a movie script, but then who would go to see it? Heck, I'm just grateful they didn't have Skiles in an affair with a stewardess and Sully smuggling cocaine in his flight bag.

Accept entertainment for what it is. Don't expect accuracy from anything out of Hollywood; just relax and enjoy it.
 
mscard88 said:
Uh, we've given you the reference to read, from one of the ****ing pilots that was there and involved. Good Lord man. :rolleyes:
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That pilot was there for the meetings, not the initial investigation and other stuff.

Or do you really think Sully was on the inside for all of the conversations with the NTSB?

Please. I guarantee you that pilot error was kicked around among the NTSB at some point
 
Half Fast said:
Well, yes, but the entire purpose of the movie was to engage and entertain an audience. Had it done otherwise it would have been a failure.

I suppose they could have used the NTSB transcripts and the cockpit recordings in place of a movie script, but then who would go to see it? Heck, I'm just grateful they didn't have Skiles in an affair with a stewardess and Sully smuggling cocaine in his flight bag.

Accept entertainment for what it is. Don't expect accuracy from anything out of Hollywood; just relax and enjoy it.
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Completely understood. I just call BS when it’s BS. Nick was trying to use the fictional movie to justify a position about NTSB, which was ultra-silly.

I was most entertained by the “videoconference” done live in the simulator as the peak of “tension” in the movie when I saw it. I sat there thinking, “Man, that’s one hell of a good videoconferencing system with multiple camera angles that auto switch inside a simulator cockpit!”, since I used to build and install such things. Hahaha.

The transcripts show, as one would expect, that sim time was done, of course, but nobody did any live videoconferencing. We all know what time it was in France for an afternoon government hearing in NY... LOL. Time zones... hmmm. Yeah, let’s put our best sim investigators in the sim at midnight so they can be available for a dramatic videoconference on cue at just the right time in the “grilling” questions... ROFLMAO.

Heck, they didn’t even do ten minutes of, “Hello! Can you see us? How’s the audio? (In this loud-ass simulator box...)”

Hollywood is awesome.

Mixing airplanes and videoconferencing for a former videoconferencing engineer and pilot, just MIGHT have had the effect of bringing me straight out of “suspension of disbelief” for two hours... hahaha.

Actually the cockpit scenes were done fairly well for a movie. The Director appeared to give a crap about those. But I had to stifle laughter at the videoconference. For sure.
 
denverpilot said:
Completely understood. I just call BS when it’s BS. Nick was trying to use the fictional movie to justify a position about NTSB, which was ultra-silly
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No. I’m using the fact that almost EVERY NTSB report lists pilot error as he probable cause. Unexpected Andy unreported wind gust at flare? Pilot error. Unforecast icing in IMC at night? Pilot error.

Might as well just focus on the contributing factors as they are usually the real probable cause without the NTSB’s BS hanging
 
SkyHog said:
That pilot was there for the meetings, not the initial investigation and other stuff.

Or do you really think Sully was on the inside for all of the conversations with the NTSB?

Please. I guarantee you that pilot error was kicked around among the NTSB at some point
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I'm sure it was as that's no doubt on the "checklist" they use. Believe what ya want man.
 
SkyHog said:
No. I’m using the fact that almost EVERY NTSB report lists pilot error as he probable cause. Unexpected Andy unreported wind gust at flare? Pilot error. Unforecast icing in IMC at night? Pilot error.

Might as well just focus on the contributing factors as they are usually the real probable cause without the NTSB’s BS hanging
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In most of their reports, when you read the details, the “bias” toward pilot error is correct.

Can you cite a specific report where pilot error was claimed that the pilot did not make an error? Let’s see ONE. Can you find one?
 
denverpilot said:
Completely understood. I just call BS when it’s BS. Nick was trying to use the fictional movie to justify a position about NTSB, which was ultra-silly.

I was most entertained by the “videoconference” done live in the simulator as the peak of “tension” in the movie when I saw it. I sat there thinking, “Man, that’s one hell of a good videoconferencing system with multiple camera angles that auto switch inside a simulator cockpit!”, since I used to build and install such things. Hahaha.

The transcripts show, as one would expect, that sim time was done, of course, but nobody did any live videoconferencing. We all know what time it was in France for an afternoon government hearing in NY... LOL. Time zones... hmmm. Yeah, let’s put our best sim investigators in the sim at midnight so they can be available for a dramatic videoconference on cue at just the right time in the “grilling” questions... ROFLMAO.

Heck, they didn’t even do ten minutes of, “Hello! Can you see us? How’s the audio? (In this loud-ass simulator box...)”

Hollywood is awesome.

Mixing airplanes and videoconferencing for a former videoconferencing engineer and pilot, just MIGHT have had the effect of bringing me straight out of “suspension of disbelief” for two hours... hahaha.

Actually the cockpit scenes were done fairly well for a movie. The Director appeared to give a crap about those. But I had to stifle laughter at the videoconference. For sure.
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Agreed. The whole depiction of the simulator runs was silly, but so were several other things compared to the real world.

As an engineer, I've been on numerous failure review boards, and have led several investigations, for missile flight failures. I have some inkling of what a real investigation looks like, how fault trees are created, how sims are used, how recovered hardware is analyzed, etc.

A movie made along those lines would be boring as hell.

Which is ironic, because the real investigation is fascinating. Trying to reconstruct what happened from charred bits of twisted hardware recovered from a hole in the desert floor, telemetry records, pre-flight test runs, build records, etc., is a better mystery than anything Perry Mason or Jessica Fletcher ever saw.
 
Half Fast said:
Agreed. The whole depiction of the simulator runs was silly, but so were several other things compared to the real world.

As an engineer, I've been on numerous failure review boards, and have led several investigations, for missile flight failures. I have some inkling of what a real investigation looks like, how fault trees are created, how sims are used, how recovered hardware is analyzed, etc.

A movie made along those lines would be boring as hell.

Which is ironic, because the real investigation is fascinating. Trying to reconstruct what happened from charred bits of twisted hardware recovered from a hole in the desert floor, recorded telemetry records, pre-flight test runs, build records, etc., is a better mystery than anything Perry Mason or Jessica Fletcher ever saw.
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Yup.

I like making fun of the cop shows my wife watches.

Twelve highly qualified detectives assigned to one murder case for a week. And then a shootout at the end, in a stairwell, where nobody is ever hit, and the main characters aren’t deaf as a post next week.

Hollywood is fun. More fun if you actually think about it while you’re watching it.

At the incident scene earlier this week when I was taking the photos before dragging airplane parts out of the road, I was thinking how difficult it would be to recreate what we saw happen live from those photos. Quite a few clues but it still wouldn’t be easy without someone walking through the photos one at a time visualizing where the aircraft went.

And that was a pretty straightforward landing accident. The critical photos would have been the road sign knocked down, the tire skid marks on the road, the main gear tire ruts in the ditch, and that pretty much tells the story. The rest were just covering “where did all the parts stop moving”. The physics was in those three shots.
 
denverpilot said:
And then a shootout at the end, in a stairwell, where nobody is ever hit, and the main characters aren’t deaf as a post next week.
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That's what makes me laugh at war movies... All the shooting, bombs bursting in air, the rockets red glare, and after the shooting stops, the characters start whispering to each other..... :rofl:
 
Zeldman said:
That's what makes me laugh at war movies... All the shooting, bombs bursting in air, the rockets red glare, and after the shooting stops, the characters start whispering to each other..... :rofl:
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Yeah. They kinda did it right in the final scene of Pvt Ryan when Hanks couldn’t hear a damned thing when everyone was yelling at him. But it’s rare. And Hollywood only does it with artillery or explosives. Rarely with small arms.

A friend of mine posted on FB that he went shooting on family land with his Glock 30 on Thanksgiving and forgot his hearing protection. His ears were still ringing yesterday. I told him he knew better than that and hope he didn’t cause permanent damage.

I once fired a 1911 held pointing to my left about a foot from my face looking at something. Hearing protection off. I had turned sideways to make sure the muzzle was where I wanted it pointed. But at that distance, I couldn’t hear **** for half an hour.

I always chuckle when I see airline commercials with happy rampers waving their wands (more PoA jokes... just get it over with...) and smiling (the smile is part of the problem with it, and the good weather is the other part, just to start with) who aren’t wearing any hearing protection either.

Or they have them on top of their heads off of their ears. :)

Airline ramps are loud. Really freaking loud.
 
Half Fast said:
Much easier for the NTSB to blame the geese, who didn't live to defend themselves.

Where's the outrage?

Where's the empathy?

Where's the gravy?
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Because they were a big much of dirty flockers who needed roasting anyway. Besides in a way, they are pilots too and the NTSB did need to blame pilots after all.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Because they were a big much of dirty flockers who needed roasting anyway. Besides in a way, they are pilots too and the NTSB did need to blame pilots after all.
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Yeah and they were pilots first!
 
denverpilot said:
They kinda did it right in the final scene of Pvt Ryan when Hanks couldn’t hear a damned thing when everyone was yelling at him.
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I had forgotten about that one.

While in the army something exploded in a large room we were in. My ears still ring over 35 years later.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Because they were a big much of dirty flockers who needed roasting anyway. Besides in a way, they are pilots too and the NTSB did need to blame pilots after all.
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They most certainly aren’t certificated pilots!
 
SkyDog58 said:
How would you know? Are you an expert on Canada’s aviation regulations?
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I am not.

I do know that Canada geese may be citizens of either Canada or USA and that they have no pockets to carry the cert as required by regs.
 
Clark1961 said:
I am not.

I do know that Canada geese may be citizens of either Canada or USA and that they have no pockets to carry the cert as required by regs.
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Could have dual citizenship too.
 
wait-a-minute-thats-a-bit-rich-coming-from-you.jpg
 
Clark1961 said:
The only goose squawking here is @mscard88. He can’t settle down without blaming other folks for getting called out on his stupid ideas.
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Ooh touchy touchy.

You're the only one taking things wayyyyy too serious dude, lighten up willya.
 
Once 2020 has passed and all geese are ADS-B equipped the skies shall be safe. Nexgen baby!
 
denverpilot said:
In most of their reports, when you read the details, the “bias” toward pilot error is correct.

Can you cite a specific report where pilot error was claimed that the pilot did not make an error? Let’s see ONE. Can you find one?
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Yes. See any of the gust at touchdown reports that result in ground looping.
 
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