Student Pilot - Video Report of my First Cross Country Solo in SoCal

[MAKG1]

Orbiting would be a bit weird, but I've found Oakland at least will try to accommodate my requests as long as I stay out of the way of 121 traffic. Last time around, they had me stay at 1400 over south field due to yet another purple 737, then cleared a left base entry. I had a passenger, so I asked for a right 270 instead.

 

[eetrojan]

I am very curious why your school is teaching you to orbit an unfamiliar airport. Do you know why they are suggesting that? I could see if the airport in a non towered airport and you choose to orbit to check runway conditions/ wind sock.... Things like that. It just seems very not needed. I could definately imagine this practice getting you in a tough spot flying into Santa Barbra or any busier airport as it siginificantly increases the demands placed on ATC because they pretty much want you to land just by entering the pattern. Just seems like your school is putting you in a tough spot by suggesting you do something that is not the norm, at least as far as my experience is concerned.

Hi jspilot - I’m just the pupil, and not an advocate per se, but they teach orbiting as part of a standardized plan for arriving at an unfamiliar airport. The message to me is that when arriving at an unfamiliar airport, orbiting above the traffic pattern gives me time to see the runways in use, visualize the traffic pattern, and identify obvious landmarks to turn and descend to the 45. It’s not an absolute requirement, just an initial default. In other words, if I’m visually and mentally prepared to enter the pattern without orbiting, I can most definitely choose to do so.

For a non-towered airport, I usually plan to orbit at 1,000 feet above TPA.

For a towered delta, I plan to orbit above TPA and, if possible, above the delta space so that I can simply inform tower of my intentions. Sometimes I need to orbit in the tower’s delta space (due e.g. to an overhead Charlie), in which case I request the orbit.

Class D airspace tend to have have a vertical limit of about 2500 AGL, so an orbit at say 2700 AGL has me above TPA, and above the Class D airspace, but still reasonably close to TPA for my descent to the pattern.

The main problem with towered airports is that tower often wants to help me get down quicker by directing me to do something else, e.g. a straight in, a base entry, etc. As a student, though, I still prefer to fly the full pattern to keep things consistent. I say something like, “Thanks for the base, however, I’d like to orbit and then descend to the [east] for a full 45 entry to

traffic for runway [19].”

I haven’t fully planned my flight to KSBA. It’s a sea-level airport with a TPA of 1000, and the Charlie has a standard ceiling of 4000 MSL, so orbiting above the Charlie would have me really high and probably be pretty unusual. And, orbiting in the Charlie is probably not something that gets requested much.

I’ve landed there before with a friend of mine, so it’s not completely unfamiliar, so ... [still thinking...]

I have never heard anybody request an orbit over my home Charlie (KSNA), so I do get the sense it may be a bit weird. I’ll figure this out soon.​

 

[MAKG1]

People like to transition Class C's at 2000 AGL, directly over the airport.

I don't really see the point of orbiting a towered airport. And you really should learn the many more entries you have for towered airports. I very seldom fly the 45 at PAO, unless it's frightfully busy.

 

[jspilot]

Hi jspilot - I’m just the pupil, and not an advocate per se, but they teach orbiting as part of a standardized plan for arriving at an unfamiliar airport. The message to me is that when arriving at an unfamiliar airport, orbiting above the traffic pattern gives me time to see the runways in use, visualize the traffic pattern, and identify obvious landmarks to turn and descend to the 45. It’s not an absolute requirement, just an initial default. In other words, if I’m visually and mentally prepared to enter the pattern without orbiting, I can most definitely choose to do so.

For a non-towered airport, I usually plan to orbit at 1,000 feet above TPA.

For a towered delta, I plan to orbit above TPA and, if possible, above the delta space so that I can simply inform tower of my intentions. Sometimes I need to orbit in the tower’s delta space (due e.g. to an overhead Charlie), in which case I request the orbit.

Class D airspace tend to have have a vertical limit of about 2500 AGL, so an orbit at say 2700 AGL has me above TPA, and above the Class D airspace, but still reasonably close to TPA for my descent to the pattern.

The main problem with towered airports is that tower often wants to help me get down quicker by directing me to do something else, e.g. a straight in, a base entry, etc. As a student, though, I still prefer to fly the full pattern to keep things consistent. I say something like, “Thanks for the base, however, I’d like to orbit and then descend to the [east] for a full 45 entry to

traffic for runway [19].”

I haven’t fully planned my flight to KSBA. It’s a sea-level airport with a TPA of 1000, and the Charlie has a standard ceiling of 4000 MSL, so orbiting above the Charlie would have me really high and probably be pretty unusual. And, orbiting in the Charlie is probably not something that gets requested much.

I’ve landed there before with a friend of mine, so it’s not completely unfamiliar, so ... [still thinking...]

I have never heard anybody request an orbit over my home Charlie (KSNA), so I do get the sense it may be a bit weird. I’ll figure this out soon.​

I hear you on this. Plus as a teacher in real life, I appreciate the students who follow my advice! My only point is orbiting a towered airport is just not good practice in my view. What do you gain from it? The ATIS tells you the active runway, the winds and even sometimes what important airport information is in effect( I.e runway closing and things like that). Non-towered is a totally different story and flying above the airport makes sense then. I also kind of agree with the idea of learning how to enter the airport environment in a standard way. It's no surprise ATC wants to get you on the ground fast- that's there job and what they are accustomed to from the majority of pilots. I just think you are being asked to do something that creates more work for you as a pilot.

Once you've been cleared to solo you are the pilot in command- take that seriously and do what you feel is right. Following a rule just because it is a rule is not always great.​

 

[eman1200]

ee I have a question for u, from one student to another...u seem to use the phrase '45 left traffic' a few times, but r u specifying left upwind/xwind/downwind? 'Entering 45' doesn't tell me where u r in the pattern.

Thanks!

 

[fiveoboy01]

Entering on a 45 is going to be on the downwind leg. Generally somewhere around midfield.

 

[eman1200]

Entering on a 45 is going to be on the downwind leg. Generally somewhere around midfield.

I guess I'm getting in the habit of giving MORE information than less:

"entering 45 left downwind at midfield for RWY 35"

or, in the many cases where I entered other than downwind:

"entering 45 left upwind at midfield for rwy 35"

no question about where I am in the pattern.

 

[fiveoboy01]

I sort of mis-read your post. You were quoting him off the video, and I didn't realize that.

I've been taught to enter the downwind at a 45 wherever possible. It's what most other aircraft expect.

Keep in mind that not every aircraft out there has a radio, and you may un-pleasantly surprise someone by entering the pattern on the upwind. As well as you may not see the traffic, or, they may not see you because they are busy climbing out. Just some things to think about.

 

[eman1200]

I sort of mis-read your post. You were quoting him off the video, and I didn't realize that.

I've been taught to enter the downwind at a 45 wherever possible. It's what most other aircraft expect.

Keep in mind that not every aircraft out there has a radio, and you may un-pleasantly surprise someone by entering the pattern on the upwind. As well as you may not see the traffic, or, they may not see you because they are busy climbing out. Just some things to think about.

I actually think about the non-radio issue all the time. I don't get hyped up about too many things, but a plane without a radio to me seems absolutely freakin insane these days. I'm not happy about it, but I understand it's there and not going anywhere. I just really don't like it.

 

[eetrojan]

ee I have a question for u, from one student to another...u seem to use the phrase '45 left traffic' a few times, but r u specifying left upwind/xwind/downwind? 'Entering 45' doesn't tell me where u r in the pattern.

Thanks!

I'll have to look later, but it's probably poor phraseology as I don't know what that means either, nor even remember saying that. Doh.

Maybe i was trying to say "ON the 45 FOR left traffic..."?

 

[johnrweb]

eetrojan,

Thanks for posting your videos. Since KSNA is our local airport, I got my wife to watch it with me and we enjoyed it.