student pilot looking to buy C150

Peter Ha said:
Great advice, folks!
To answer few questions; I’m in CA and 150 at Dallas area. After putting 76hrs so far, I’m sure 150 (High-wing) fits my mission. I hope to bush-fly one day. The seller is currently flying plane. I tinker with bikes, music instruments, RC planes and guns for fun (does that qualify me to do inspection?) :D

How much does a 150 engine overhaul cost? An annual? (it’s due this month)
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A field overhaul will be in the 12-15k range. I got a quote recently from an engine shop in Ohio for 16.5k for a overhauled engine with new cylinders, overhauled mags, new plugs and wires, overhauled carb, and a 2 year warranty and a prorated TBO warranty. Figure another 1-2k for an A&P to remove your old engine and install the new one. Maybe another 1-2k depending on the shape of your baffling, oil pressure line, control cables, fuel line, etc.

Too hard to speculate on annuals. I would say an honest no squak annual will run 1.2-1.5k. Some mechanics will let you assist to cut that down a bit. Some places may be a lot more.
 
Peter Ha said:
... they want 15K
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That is quite expensive man. In 2013 I bought a ‘67 C150 with a 400hr SMOH in clean condition for $12k. I know the value has went up but recently an acquaintance of mine lost his medical and sold his 150 that he easily had just put $50k into for $20k. Had a new motor installed and extended tanks installed. Thing was extremely clean.

If I had your money I’d look for a C172 or PA28. Your $15k Dream 150 that needs a motor will be a $40k plane quickly. For $40k you can buy a nice C172/PA28 with a decent panel and maybe even an autopilot. I paid $18k for my Mooney...

Just know that with an airplane you can be struck with a crazy expense at any given moment. So make sure you’re prepared to spend thousands of dollars in a heartbeat. If you can’t swallow that then consider a flying club.


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Grum.Man said:
First off a Cessna 150 is not that simple of an airplane. Join the type club and ask for a prebuy in the area. If you don’t know what you are doing then you should hire an expert. That said there are “experts” everywhere that still do crummy work. I have two 150’s that I recently bought. I purposely bought project ones as I know how poorly most airplanes are maintained and would rather fix it all my self and know what I have.

here are a few examples of the issues I found on mine that had previously been for sale for 15k before puking it’s engine and me buying it for 5k. This airplane had been kept in annual and maintained by a “reputable” shop. At its last annual the previous owner spent over 8k to have a bunch of work done to include freshening up the bottom end with a tagged case and crank. He lost oil pressure going to Charleston and fire sold it.

Engine:
Improper use of lock washers and lock nuts
Oil fittings only hand tight
Nut left off the case stud down by the main oil galley. Likely caused the low oil pressure.
Mags were way past overhaul time.
Number one piston had a broke ring and piston land. Rest of the ring wasn’t located and no scoring of the cylinder walls or valves leads us to believe it might have broken during assembly.
Fuel line rubbing on exhaust.
Heat shield around muffler totally cracked and not useable.
Busted baffling that should have been replaced.

Airframe:
Elevator trim out of adjustmen. Hadn’t been lubbed in so long that the chain was frozen on the ends and would allow full travel.
Wrong diameter safety wire used on all turnbuckles.
Flap rigging out of adjustment allowing slack in the flap cables when in down position.
Broken control yoke that had been glued and screwed back together and covered in tape.
Remote ELT battery hadn’t been replaced in 10 years.
Several undocumented AD notes
Whee bearings didn’t look like they had been serviced in several years.

I tell you this to warn you that just because an A&P says the plane is airworthy doesn’t mean you will not run into things. Your true budget should be a good bit higher than your shopping price. If it turns out you don’t need things then you are money ahead.
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All good advice here. Rule of thumb says to reserve a 1/3rd of the planes price (or a quarter of the budget) for Inspections, Repair and/or Replace As Necessary after you own the plane, after a thorough pre-buy.
 
Peter Ha said:
Folks, I’ve only trained on 172. Will I be capable fly back the 150 myself or do I need train with cfi first? Do they have different flying characteristics?
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I trained in a 150 exclusively until my long solo XC. The 150 had broke the night before my solo XC. That morning my CFI and I went up for 30 minutes in the 172 and then he sent me on my way. You will be fine.

Take another pilot with you and go look at it, though Cali to Dallas is a long haul. I'm sure there is a POA'er here in Dallas that can look at it for you. Then if you like what you here, again, I'm sure someone here knows a mechanic that can look at it for you. There is a guy in denton that did my prebuy on my Cherokee for like 500 bucks if I remember right. But even though you get a pre buy done doesn't mean the next day the plane don't explode. So take that and chew on it.

You give 10 different mechanics access to that plane and you will get 10 very different list of issues.

My thought though is why a 150? If you plan to do bush pilot stuff get a 170 or a kit fox. I think with a 150 you will get bored fast and want to upgrade. Then again maybe you wont, just throwing out that idea. Id start with a tailwheel plane if that is the type of flying you really want to do.
 
I bought the 150 thinking it would be a “great way to build time at 80 kts”. During the first flight home I immediately was ready to upgrade. Though I get bored doing 135 kts now...


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YooperMooney said:
I bought the 150 thinking it would be a “great way to build time at 80 kts”. During the first flight home I immediately was ready to upgrade. Though I get bored doing 135 kts now...


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To each their own but I still enjoy mine and that’s coming from someone who’s other airplane does 240 kts. About the only two things I would change is more elbow room and more power for better takeoff performance. Most of the time I have the power pulled back in cruise anyway. A later model would solve the elbow room and I’m thinking about getting some ported Lycon cylinders to help the takeoff.
 
Buy a Cessna 140 for gods sake... :) if ya want to learn off airport stuff the TW wud be a better fit, and will make ya sharper on the ground than the 150 ever will. Nothing a 150 can do that i cant, but its a very simple aircraft and is just a joy to fly...

The 120/140 unmodified cant do true bush stuff but they're plenty capable of landing off airport in non “tight” areas as shes no more of a homesick angel than the 150... and i may be biased but the 140 is just sexier than the 150 ;)

Its at least worth considering... I'm still smitten with mine a year in and very convinced i chose the right bird. Very tight knit type club.
 
Peter Ha said:
Folks, I’ve only trained on 172. Will I be capable fly back the 150 myself or do I need train with cfi first? Do they have different flying characteristics?
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As you've not flown a 150 yet, why would you think about buying one at this time?
 
WDD said:
Just another POV. If you've got a lot of cash burning a hole in your pocket, sure - why not.

But you might want to rent for a while, try different planes out, settle into what kind of flying you'll actually be doing. Then pick your plane.
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This is great advice! I’ve flown both the 152 and the 172. The 172 is such a better plane! The 152 is so small and so cramped that’s it’s literally a 0 space aircraft. Plus, it’s so light it gets tossed around in even 10 knots of wind. If I’d be buying a plane I’d want one I could fly often. The 152 limits flyable days because it is so uncomfortable in turbulence or any sort of wind. Just my two cents but I’m trying to save up enough to get into a 172 or a Cherokee one day and just not interested in the 152’s based on my experience renting them for about a year. Been flying the 172 for 5 of my 6 years and went to a place that rents 172’s just to get away from the 152
 
Huckster79 said:
Buy a Cessna 140 for gods sake... :) if ya want to learn off airport stuff the TW wud be a better fit, and will make ya sharper on the ground than the 150 ever will. Nothing a 150 can do that i cant, but its a very simple aircraft and is just a joy to fly...

The 120/140 unmodified cant do true bush stuff but they're plenty capable of landing off airport in non “tight” areas as shes no more of a homesick angel than the 150... and i may be biased but the 140 is just sexier than the 150 ;)

Its at least worth considering... I'm still smitten with mine a year in and very convinced i chose the right bird. Very tight knit type club.
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OP, if you want to "bush fly", then a C140 make sense. Or, an air knocker (aeronca), an old taylorcraft, Stinson, etc
 
jspilot said:
This is great advice! I’ve flown both the 152 and the 172. The 172 is such a better plane! The 152 is so small and so cramped that’s it’s literally a 0 space aircraft. Plus, it’s so light it gets tossed around in even 10 knots of wind...
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The 172 is a good plane, but you can't make a blanket statement that it's "better"; it depends on your mission. If your mission is to haul up to 3 passengers on sightseeing flights or short cross countries, then yes. But a 172 handles llike a truck compared to a 150/152. Compared to a 172, a 150 is as easy to fly, maybe easier, but it's more difficult to fly well. This makes it a better trainer. To me, it's a lot more fun to fly, too. The OP is interested in bush flying, so a lighter, more agile plane makes sense... though as others have pointed out an old taildragger might make even more sense.
 
Dana said:
The 172 is a good plane, but you can't make a blanket statement that it's "better"; it depends on your mission.
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Good point. I think it all goes back to what do you want to do AND how well / would a 150 do that. A lot of that you won't know until you actually fly and try it out for a bit.
 
One thing that struck me about the 152 was how big it was inside. Much bigger than the Cessna 120 I used to fly or the rag and tube homebuilt that I fly now. Seemed to be reasonably light and easy on the controls - not as truck like as the 172 (elevator) - a nice airplane to fly.
 
Dana said:
The 172 is a good plane, but you can't make a blanket statement that it's "better"; it depends on your mission. If your mission is to haul up to 3 passengers on sightseeing flights or short cross countries, then yes. But a 172 handles llike a truck compared to a 150/152. Compared to a 172, a 150 is as easy to fly, maybe easier, but it's more difficult to fly well. This makes it a better trainer. To me, it's a lot more fun to fly, too. The OP is interested in bush flying, so a lighter, more agile plane makes sense... though as others have pointed out an old taildragger might make even more sense.
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Ok I think you are digging deeply into how I used the word "better"to try and make an argument here. I was saying it was "better" for me not as a universal comparison between the two planes and not meant to be held as gospel. I have to say, for my money, I would not buy a 150 or 152 because it's a very uncomfortable plane to fly and does not compare favorably in most/any comfort comparisons.

There are plenty of 172's doing bush flying in Alaska and all over the world mind you.
 
Give me a thousand feet of grass or gravel, and I am comfortable landing there in a 172...I wouldn't be even thinking about it in a 150, they are extremely sluggish to get off the ground and climb out. So I see it as depending upon use, only going into airports with big runways, and never ever will take along 2 people, the pilot and passenger are fairly slim people, then get a 150.
 
Shuswap BC said:
Give me a thousand feet of grass or gravel, and I am comfortable landing there in a 172...I wouldn't be even thinking about it in a 150, they are extremely sluggish to get off the ground and climb out. So I see it as depending upon use, only going into airports with big runways, and never ever will take along 2 people, the pilot and passenger are fairly slim people, then get a 150.
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Yeah I thought the same thing— I’ve never thought of the 152 as a terrific climber- especially the 150.
 
jspilot said:
Yeah I thought the same thing— I’ve never thought of the 152 as a terrific climber- especially the 150.
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I instructed in several different airplanes. The 150s were sick compared to the 100-hp Champ we had. Same engine, same useful load, big difference in performance. When Cessna put that rear window into the 150, the extra drag caused by the notched fuselage slowed the airplane and hurt takeoff performance. That old Champ took off shorter, climbed faster and cruised faster than the 150.

I also flew a 90-hp Aircoupe, one of the last iterations of the Ercoupe. This one had rudder pedals. It had the same power-to-weight ratio as a 150. It also took off shorter, climber faster and cruised faster than the 150.

The 150 has the Continental that usually needs cylinder work by mid-time. It has a gear-driven alternator that costs way more than the usual belt-driven affair. The 152's Lyc O-235 does better than that. But the 152 has a 24-volt system, and its battery costs three times as much as the 150s.

A good prebuy is in order. Even a "simple" airplane can break your budget real quick if some major component turns up cracked or corroded, or if an AD check reveals some stuff that hasn't been complied with. And some parts for the 150 are getting impossible to get. That fuel shutoff valve is a good example. There are places that repair it, but that only goes so far. A busted valve isn't repairable. If it has the flat-style gear legs, corrosion presents the risk of cracking and failure. They haven't been made in a long time and the airplane wrecking yards know that. A cracked fuel tank (common enough) can be a really costy pain. Those tank covers on the wing are supposed to come off every three years or 1000 hours to inspect the tanks and their tiedowns but I'd bet that maybe 2% of airplanes get looked after like that. So the screws rust into the anchor nuts and have to be drilled out, risking damage to the spar, and replacing those nuts is a nightmare. BTDT. Cessna put the nuts on the spar before they assembled the wing and wrapped the leading edge skin over the rivets. The nuts on the rib outboard of the tank are really hard to get at, too. Control system cables and pullys wear. Pulleys seize as their bearing grease hardens, wearing a cable rapidly. Lots of stuff.

Things look "simple" to a lot of folks until they become mechanics and have to start fixing these simple things. You start to realize that Cessna never dreamed that they'd still be flying 50 or 60 years after they were built. They didn't plan for the amount of fatigue, wear and corrosion that happens in that time.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Those tank covers on the wing are supposed to come off every three years or 1000 hours to inspect the tanks and their tiedowns but I'd bet that maybe 2% of airplanes get looked after like that.
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A young A&P couple rebuilding a "long stored" 150 - at least one cover had come off to repair a leaking tank - the other? Apparently not...
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
A young A&P couple rebuilding a "long stored" 150 - at least one cover had come off to repair a leaking tank - the other? Apparently not...
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Leaks are only one problem. The tiedown straps are thin aluminum about 5/8" wide, lined with rubber strips Cessna calls "bumpers." Those bumpers age and harden and crack and the glue fails and they fall off the straps, and now the aluminum strap starts chafing against the tank and wears holes in it. Two straps, four corners where holes show up. Repairing this costs way more than periodically taking the covers off and inspecting and fixing stuff before damage occurs. There are bumpers under the tank, too, against the hat section supports. The tank sits on them. If they're old the tank needs to come out to replace them.

The short sections of rubber hose that connect the vent crossover line also get old and crack and start leaking fuel into the cabin. Nice. They need replacing too.
 
There will always be an airplane that out performs the other. I call BS on an old 6 cylinder 172 outperforming a 150. I’ve flown both and my 150 gets off faster, climbs about the same, cruise only 5-10 mph slower and burns half the gas.

If you want a good all around personal airplane to use for pleasure a 172 or Cherokee is a better buy hands down. There are lots of TW airplanes that cost less and perform better but they will likely be fabric and will need covered storage. A Cessna 120/140 doesn’t perform any better than old fastback 150’s. A Luscombe will and it’s metal on the later models but not everyone wants the added challenge of a TW.

if time building is your goal you should be focused on fuel burn not purchase price. My 150 burns 4.7gph at 2400 rpm doing 100 mph at 2500 feet and I use MOGAS. Not much out there that offers all the advantages of a 150 at that fuel burn. The 0-200 is about as bulletproof as they come and lots of them still going way
Past TBO. they are cheaper to overhaul than an o-235, I prefer working on them over a Lycoming, I like the gear driven alternator/generator over belt driven ones.

with all this said don’t fall for the ridiculously marked up airplanes just because they are a Cessna 150. You don’t need a Garmin 430 and fancy radios. My other favorite advertising phrase word is 1800smoh but running great! Screw that, it could crap the bed any minute. It’s a run out airplane and should be priced accordingly.
 
Hey. Well I just bought a second 150 because it was a hel l of an upgrade to my ole stock one.
First off. You need to shop around. I sold my 65 150J with 5g tt and 1100 on motor for 15G here in Alaska 5 weeks ago .
My second one is a 150/150 lycomings 320 W 165H on motor with big ole tires and a sportsman stol kit on it so its bush ready.
A helava upgrade for a solo pilot only
 
I think you might be best off finding an AP & I first, after all you want to keep flying it after you buy it. I would give you an example but I prefer that you don't ask.
 
Peter Ha said:
Great advice, folks!
I’m in CA and 150 at Dallas area.
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IMO, the first and most important question to ask "is it hangared or tied down outside?" Airplanes that are hangared tend to be in much better shape, being that there is protection from the WX elements. Especially in Dallas. There has been some really bad hail & wind storms in the Dallas area in the last few years.
 
Grum.Man said:
There will always be an airplane that out performs the other. I call BS on an old 6 cylinder 172 outperforming a 150. I’ve flown both and my 150 gets off faster, climbs about the same, cruise only 5-10 mph slower and burns half the gas.
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I'm surprised at this. I've flown both, but my experience is about 20X as much in the O-300 Skyhawk as the C150. Any idea why the disparity in your experience? For my own, I'd have credited the 172 with 200-300fpm added climb rate and 10-15kts faster at similar loadings (ie same passenger load, both with full tanks). I expect the climb is due to being a few hundo under MGW but I didn't find them that close in cruise at all.

I would expect a 'good' 150 to match a 'bad' 172 :D
 
schmookeeg said:
I'm surprised at this. I've flown both, but my experience is about 20X as much in the O-300 Skyhawk as the C150. Any idea why the disparity in your experience? For my own, I'd have credited the 172 with 200-300fpm added climb rate and 10-15kts faster at similar loadings (ie same passenger load, both with full tanks). I expect the climb is due to being a few hundo under MGW but I didn't find them that close in cruise at all.

I would expect a 'good' 150 to match a 'bad' 172 :D
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it could be that my experience is in the best year 150 (63 small tire) versus the worst 172 (omnivision O300). Add to that the 172 usually get nice leather interior and more loaded panels driving the weight up. I get 120 mph in the 150 at 75% 7500ft. If my memory is correct the best I think I got 130 in the 172. Standard day in the 150 at gross I see about 500 fpm and maybe 600-700 in the 172.
 
Grum.Man said:
it could be that my experience is in the best year 150 (63 small tire) versus the worst 172 (omnivision O300). Add to that the 172 usually get nice leather interior and more loaded panels driving the weight up. I get 120 mph in the 150 at 75% 7500ft. If my memory is correct the best I think I got 130 in the 172. Standard day in the 150 at gross I see about 500 fpm and maybe 600-700 in the 172.
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Gotcha. Reflecting a little more, possibly my 150 experience was not the best. In fact, in the height of summer when I did a XC in one from WI to CA, it took an hour or so to even drag the thing to 6500' (likely 9K DA) despite being a bit under gross. I would not have tried for 7500. :D

I'll try to fly one in winter and recalibrate. :D
 
Hey folks,
What places to get financing for plane?
I'm new at this buy-a-plane venture; so I'm asking. :)
 
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I did mine through AOPA/US Alliance/Aerospace reports.
 
First, if your looking at a 150 in the Dallas area John Effinger is the one to talk to about a pre-buy. He knows more than most about Cessnas and will tell it like it is.

I used AOPA/Bank of America for my first plane (a 1956 172) and Red River Bank in Minnesota for my Cardinal RG. AOPA treated me well. Red River is a relatively small bank that does a lot of aircraft financing. They give you the customer service you’d hope for and know all the ins-and-outs of buying a plane

I was happy with how I was treated by AOPA but would probably talk to Red River if I was buying another plane because of their excellent customer service and very competitive rates.

gary
 
I instruct part time in one here in the Dallas area. Maybe someone here could at least check on it for you.
 
Anyone recommend good aviation insurance company for C150?
And how long does it take to get coverage? One or two days?
 
Try Belton Aviation
336-998-8611
Tell them John Kruckeberg referred you.
The policy is usually in effect as soon as you give them the go ahead.
 
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