Yes, if it's a civil penalty case. Certificate suspensions and revocations are adjudicated by the NTSB sitting as an administrative court, not the FAA.
Student pilot flying with Private pilot
- Thread starter Jake Simpson
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I'll assume it was a typo or some crazy spell check thing. We've all seen plenty of them.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
So a jury of my peers who have to find me guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, while giving me my full due process?
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking, but no, the NTSB is not a jury of your peers who have to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But it is the administrative body which adjudicates FAA certificate enforcement cases. And, no, it is not a criminal case.
What if the poodle just turns on the autopilot, arms the approach and then just monitors to make sure it captures the glide slope? No need to touch the yoke.
Except where it's the NTSB or a federal district or appellate judge.
SkyChaser
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I am pretty sure these questions are a moot point unless the poodle holds a pilot's license and the poodle and the pilot in the right seat are arguing over who gets to log what. Because if the poodle doesn't hold a pilot's license, it can't log anything nor can it be considered PIC, so the right seat pilot has to be PIC and can log that time.
PIC = “Poodle In Command?”
A pilot certificate is not a requirement for all logging. PIC, yes, but a number of the logging rules don't (think pre-solo student receiving instruction since this thread is about student pilots). Those subsections of 61.51 apply. not to a pilot, but to a "person." Which, of course begs the question in the case of the poodle.I am pretty sure these questions are a moot point unless the poodle holds a pilot's license and the poodle and the pilot in the right seat are arguing over who gets to log what. Because if the poodle doesn't hold a pilot's license, it can't log anything nor can it be considered PIC, so the right seat pilot has to be PIC and can log that time.
SkyChaser
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But if the pilot in the right seat isn't a CFI, which is how this whole thing started, the poodle isn't allowed to be PIC even if it was the student, because then the poodle would be in violation of the reg prohibiting students from carrying passengers.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Notice the regs never say what seat the PIC has to be in. There is no prohibition on a private pilot flying from the right seat.
SkyChaser
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Oh, I was just carrying over the previous verbiage. I know it doesn't matter which seat the poodle or the pilot is in. If the pilot isn't a CFI, then the poodle can't log time unless the poodle is also a certified pilot.
Well, a poodle isn't allowed to "be" PIC no matter what. Neither is a student pilot receiving instruction. But the comment you replied to wasn't about either logging or being PIC.
SkyChaser
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Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC!
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC!
Now I am thinking about sending our poodle to flight school since you guys say it is possible?
midwestpa24
Final Approach
Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC!
Can a poodle pass a medical?
Certainly not with passengers unless the poodle is current on landings.Sorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC!
Poodles are only allowed to take passengers under Pilots & Paws. It’s a special carve-out exemption.
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BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
So it’s more of a kangaroo court than a court of Justice.
I really wouldn't worry about thatSorry, I guess I thought all of the comments about the poodle were connected, and when it started, the question was who logs what in the case of a poodle controlling the plane via yoke or autopilot. I really hope no one thinks a poodle could actually be PIC!
I guess whatever you want to call it is what you will call it.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
I guess whatever you want to call it is what you will call it.
It is what it is, but comparing the description for a kangaroo court to a court of due process, at least from Wikipedia, it seems to follow more in the kangaroo area. Why do they fear airmen having due process?
Lindberg
Final Approach
I don't think "due process" means what you think it means.
BladeSlap
Ejection Handle Pulled
The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a Due Process Clause.[18] Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.[19] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses as providing four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights
And 91.13 isn’t vague at all lol
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