Student IFR pilot has a Debonair C33A

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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FloridaStudentPilot
So you folks already know I just started on my IFR. In the Ground School part of it I'm in a class with 5 other people. Long story short one of my classmates father passed away (Non Aviation related). In the will he gave his son his airplane. The son just passed his PPL (42 Hours) and now he is going for his IFR but he is a little worried that insurance is not going to cover him once he completes his IFR. He is taking lessons in a Piper Arrow.

I don't know how this is going to turn out for him but do you think he gets covered after his IFR?

What do you think?


Thanks!
 
Sure insurance will, why wouldn't they?
 
mscard88 said:
Sure insurance will, why wouldn't they?
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Well, he called a couple insurance companies just to "check" and they said he didn't have the amount of hours needed to be covered. It's a complex, high performance airplane.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Well, he called a couple insurance companies just to "check" and they said he didn't have the amount of hours needed to be covered. It's a complex, high performance airplane.
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The insurance company should have also said how much time they want to see. If it's like 10 or so, just take a CFI along on a couple long fun trips.
 
Sorry to hear about your classmate's father. Nice to hear the airplane is being passed on to an enthusiastic pilot.

If all he has flown is training airplanes and an Arrow, the insurance company will want him to log some dual time in the Deb. I agree with @asicer in post #4, the insurers will tell him exactly what he needs to do to qualify. The C33A has the bigger IO-520 engine, but by the time he has his IFR completed it should not be a huge step up from the Arrow if he gets the appropriate dual.
 
Have him ask his insurance company if they will insure him with a set amount of dual instruction in the aircraft.

He’d actually be better off doing the IFR in the Beech. It may take him a little longer to complete the training, but all that time would all count toward the insurance requirements.

Tell him to call Tom Johnson at AirPower Insurance and explain his situation. TJ is great at working with underwriters to find a solution.
 
Fearless Tower said:
He’d actually be better off doing the IFR in the Beech. It may take him a little longer to complete the training, but all that time would all count toward the insurance requirements.
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This would be my recommendation as well. He’s going to be flying the Deb post rating, so he might as well get used to it now.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Have him ask his insurance company if they will insure him with a set amount of dual instruction in the aircraft.

He’d actually be better off doing the IFR in the Beech. It may take him a little longer to complete the training, but all that time would all count toward the insurance requirements.

Tell him to call Tom Johnson at AirPower Insurance and explain his situation. TJ is great at working with underwriters to find a solution.
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This makes good sense, and will save him the aircraft rental (offset by the opex for the Beech of course). The only thing I wonder about is whether in a 285 hp Debonair things are happening so fast a 42 hour PPL trying to fly it under the hood is in danger of being perhaps a little too challenged? If he's a natural it'll work, but if not it might just be a frustrating experience for him.
 
Have a buddy doing his ppl in a bonanza, finally found a company to insure him, $6000 no hull coverage.
 
GRG55 said:
This makes good sense, and will save him the aircraft rental (offset by the opex for the Beech of course). The only thing I wonder about is whether in a 285 hp Debonair things are happening so fast a 42 hour PPL trying to fly it under the hood is in danger of being perhaps a little too challenged? If he's a natural it'll work, but if not it might just be a frustrating experience for him.
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Not a problem if the instructor has any ability whatsoever.
 
GRG55 said:
This makes good sense, and will save him the aircraft rental (offset by the opex for the Beech of course). The only thing I wonder about is whether in a 285 hp Debonair things are happening so fast a 42 hour PPL trying to fly it under the hood is in danger of being perhaps a little too challenged? If he's a natural it'll work, but if not it might just be a frustrating experience for him.
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I suppose some of that will depend on what avionics are in the Deb's panel.
 
FloridaPilot said:
What do you think?
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There are a lot of people that have been able to transition into more complex/high performance planes than a Debonair with low time. The two best suggestions I've seen here are: get the IR in the plane (fly it vfr several times with an instructor to get comfy first) and find out what insurance wants. They will detail what they require, he satisfies that and if comfortable then he's on his own.
 
When insurance companies don't want the risk, they'll quote outrageous prices. At least that's what a former aviation insurance agent once told me.

It's a matter of time and training. Start out with a policy that only covers it under dual. After he gets the IFR, he should have more than enough hours in type to get a reasonable price on insurance.
 
It might also help to go to the underwriter with a detailed plan for training, i.e., "we'll do a ten-hour checkout that will include (specific operational and systems knowledge, especially in problem areas for the Deb...fuel management, for example), and then the instrument training, which will include (operational and specific installed equipment, etc.)

Underwriters tend to be happier in these cases with a specific plan or syllabus than just a general "we'll train him in the airplane".
 
bflynn said:
When insurance companies don't want the risk, they'll quote outrageous prices. At least that's what a former aviation insurance agent once told me.
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There may be some that do that, but in my experience insuring unique/harder to insure airplanes, if an underwriter doesn’t want to take a chance, they either won’t respond to the broker’s request for a quote, or they’ll flat out say ‘no’
 
The insurance companies ,will usually insure,if you follow their recommended check out and hours. They may need 10 hrs. Dual and 25 solo,but they will insure,with enough money ,anything is possible in aviation.
 
Being that it was given to him I doubt he will need insurance other than just wanting it. But as others have said there might be a lengthy check out list to follow but is doable I'm sure.
 
Each insurance company will be different too. I went with an insurance broker who got the best deal for me.

I would also talk to the insurance company about finishing you PPL in the Debonair. I would think that you would have quite a few hours with an instructor (dual) which is what an insurance company would like to see I would think. Then you would have met the insurance requirements once you have your ticket.
 
There is hardly an easier plane to fly than a Bo/Deb. If I was teaching anyone to fly, I would choose a Bo/Deb (absent insurance restrictions) because I can't think of a more viceless airplane (save for, maybe, a 172/150/152) to train someone in. Of course, there's a little more complexity...anyone can master the drills and muscle-memory with adequate instruction. Point is: insurers realize this, too. So, don't fall swoop to the notion that this Deb is a flying dragon: find out what they want (shop around, of course) and give it to them...the sooner you understand that this aircraft is near the ultimate single-engine land plane, the better you will be. Good luck and God bless.
 
I know someone with a BE60 and no instrument rating. If he can find insurance your friend certainly can
 
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