Student Confidence

[billwil]

{snip} When I started, I was almost 30 yr. old and had never been on any airplane of any size or type. Not even an airliner. But I had years of bike riding [motorized and not], SCUBA diving, all sorts of things and while I wasn't arrogant about learning to fly, and I realized up front that I was in for a lot of practice and studying...{snip}

Sorry about the OT post...but I laughed out loud when I read this, Baron. Wow, SCUBA diving, but never flying. That's a lot of driving from Colorado! (I know there is other diving than in the ocean...but it still struck me funny...I just don't like diving lakes ).

 

[Missa]

What other methods should he be using to boost his confidence?

Even as a student fly with other instructors. My first instructor was milking me and was not very good as I now can assess in hindsight. He really had trouble instilling confidance in his students. I think women may be more pron to this problem then men and MANY MANY of his female students left him for my second instructor who was very good at it. Durring my first flight (1/2 hr intro flight) with my second instructor (Todd) I kept asking him all about the the Archer (my biggest concern about changing instructors was going from a 172 to an Archer), Like what was rotate speed? What speed should I be looking for on final? His answer was "just fly the Cessna" and I did. He was trying to prove changing planes would not be an issue but it was a boost to the confidance that I did know what I was doing. Later when I had decided to fly with him I went over the POH for the Archer and found it wasn't all that diffrent.

I think the OP should seek out other instructors to fly with even if just for recreation and not a lesson. Aks the instructor to recomend someone for an unbiased second oppinion of his flying for confidance reasons.

Todd told me I was a good Pilot.
I met Razor (CFII & now close friend) and we went for several obligtory pancake runs and she told me I was my own biggest critic. That i was a really good pilot (didn't sink in yet).
Dave (never flew with him but just before &/or after him into pancake runs) told me I was a "good pilot kiddo" (didn't sink in yet).
I took upset training & started the tailwheel endorsment with the DE who gave me my licence, he told me I was a good pilot (didn't sink in yet).
The CFII who started my instrument training said I was a good pilot but needed to work on holding altitude and landing on the center line (didn't sink in yet).
The CFI who finished my Tailwheel tool me I was a good pilot (didn't sink in yet).
Fly down to the Wing Fly-B-Q and leave the master switch on requiring a start on ground power to get home (wonder what they were thinking when they gave me a licence!)
The CFII who gave me my bi-annual in PA told me I was a good pilot (started to sink in, a little bit).
Ted, Rick, Barb, (pilots and students) and varous non-pilot passengers told me I was a good pilot (maybe a little tiny bit further).
My boyfriend asked me to give his child a ride (Ok now I must not be too bad).
Ted's instructor tells him "For a 200hr pilot she's really good" (Ok, now I think I may believe it... most of the time).

Missa

 

[Ted]

And Ted also has no problems getting in a plane with you, which says a lot because most of the time I hate being in a car/plane/whatever that I am not in control of.

That said, now that I've passed my check ride, we'll be fighting over PIC just because I want the hours!

 

[Areeda]

I'm having a lot of problems with this thread. I haven't replied yet because I feel it is just not right for me to tell someone I haven't flown with that the problem is they are better than they think they are and should just do it.

An instructor, especially when working with primary students, has to work hard to get confidence to match ability.

I've had young testosterone poisoned men who felt I was milking them when they made their first landing they might have survived without my inputs and wouldn't solo them the next flight.

I've had middle aged women with whom I could sleep in the back seat on their flights before they would do solo pattern work.

The OP in this thread could be anywhere in between and I don't feel comfortable knowing what I know trying to figure out where in the spectrum they lay.

My best advice to the OP is to go with another instructor. Tell them to keep their mouth shut and their hands and feet off the controls unless they fear for their lives. Try to figure out if your abilities exceed your confidence or vice versa, use the CFI as a safety net.

Good luck to you.

Joe

 

[rottydaddy]

This might be a problem that mainly I have. I've never had a ton of confidence in the things I do, so flying wouldn't be any different.

This thread has expanded into interesting territory, but I took another look at the OP and feel a need to comment on this line, which pretty much sums up the issue for krenmaster, I think.

I'll probably wander a bit, too...

I can relate. You're not alone.
Honestly, learning to fly was as much about "finding myself" for me as it was about anything else.
I needed a challenge that would help me grow, preferably something I found fascinating. Flying fit the bill.
And it worked. I still lack the discipline I should have, overall, but getting the hang of flying, and planning flights, and all of it changed the way I think and how I do things.
It made me a better Me.

I remember feeling disappointed sometimes that I didn't "feel like a pilot" yet... not cocky, but... well, unsure, especially when I got an "attaboy" from somebody. start thinking about that stuff instead of just trying to clear that hurdle you've got in front of you, and you'll suffer for it.
I'm not sure how great a role "unconfidence" plays, statistically, in aviation accidents, but I know the toll it takes on flying dreams... a lot of people bail because they don't realize yet that a real aviator is always wary, but in time that self-doubt becomes just another tool in the toolbox, plenty sharp but if you are used to handling it you won't cut yourself.
I made good progress in that direction, especially when able to fly often.
And my greatest moments of pride so far have had nothing to do with an instructor or pilot acquaintance praising my skill or judgement, or nervous first-timer pax exiting with a smile after the flight... no, it's been those times when I was all alone with a puzzle or a problem and did everything just right, or surprising myself with an excellent landing at some strange field early in the morning, without even strangers there to see it.
Or the glow of finishing some just-for-the-hell-of-it flight after everything went exactly as I'd planned, and I felt I'd also built up some flying "muscles".

All of us screw up from time to time, on the other hand... but part of the seasoning is learning to just make a note to work on that deficiency; don't dwell on it.

I pretty much scared the hell out of myself when I took up flying again after a 4-year hiatus; I'll admit it. But it was a pure psych-out... there was nothing wrong, really. My checkout went well, my BFR was demanding and the CFI pulled no punches but said my basic skills were still there, and I was eager to fly.
But that first takeoff on my own was surprisingly scary. Worse than my very first solo. But I had the perspective from all my previous time, and it came to my aid after I got settled on downwind. That's the perspective that shows not "omigosh, what am I doing up here?" but "well, gotta land sometime, ain't nobody up here to do it for you... suck it up."
Turning final, I was still thinking I might just park it after the first landing, I was scared that I was scared....
but I didn't realize I was assuming, as before, that I'd make a competent landing.
And I did. I'd done it before- I knew how to do it. The butterflies were gone by the time I exited the runway, and I spent the rest of my booked time just trying to make the best landing I could. By the time it was over, I was having fun, and I felt like a pilot again.

Since then I've had the quiet heebie-jeebies, briefly, now and then, usually while driving to the airport (what's the wind really doing at the field? Is the plane OK? Does my plan make sense? It's been more than three weeks; should I? etc, etc)... but it's been a while.

And it's normal. Accept that, and you'll have that self-doubt in its cage where it belongs... present, but unable to interfere.

I feel pretty good nowadays about my ability as the sole manipulator on any given flight... now that I'm pushing 250 hours, I just have to make extra-sure I don't fall into the trap that's killed more pilots than any other:
Complacency.

 

[krenmaster]

Thanks for your response Rottydaddy.

I think you make excellent points. There are times when I am confident and times when I'm not. One of the main contributors is my tendency to forget things. Some of the simplest things I'll forget in many aspects of life (not just flying). I can't think of any examples at the moment, but its not just normal forgetting things like 'where are my keys' or 'where did I put my shoes' etc. I am just afraid that I might forget something I am suppose to learn and have remembered. I have soloed, done two solo xc's so far. The solo xc's were not spectacular, but there were no big problems.

I can just see myself being halfway to my destination on another xc and realizing that I forgot to open my flight plan, or forgetting to request flight following (our school wants us to contact artcc and i agree), or forgetting to lean my mixture, or forgetting to start my time for a leg, or forgetting to keep track of fuel, forget some regs, forget how to use a navaid etc.

I haven't made any of those mistakes yet, but I am not past the feeling that they are all real possibilities for me. More likely than not, if I forget to do those things I will live, and there wont be any real drawbacks except that I did it wrong and thats not right. Supposing I make one of those mistakes (in the paragraph above this one), and lived, thats great that I lived, but was the flight really productive. If I cant remember to get flight following or lean my mixture or something like that, am I doing a good job of flying at all?

Those things are most likely aside from the confidence issue. I guess its mainly being scared of not being where I am suppose to be. I am also afraid of the situation that my instructor could think I am further along (a better pilot) than I actually am (at least I think that is a possibility).

But I guess at some point I have to just stop whining and crying and suck it up. I don't mean be cocky, but just realize that I have been receiving good training and they know what they are talking about when my instructor sends me on a solo xc or local. I should probably realize that I have had many successful flights to different airports and back. I am not an incompetent student pilot. I wont fly in bad wx or when it is too windy or overweight etc. I have a good friend (my CFI from last semeser, mine changed from last semester) who is always willing to talk to me and help me out with any problems I might be having. He is even going to fly with me before my FAA exam for the private. So I guess I shouldn't worry so much about having a lot of confidence and realize that confidence will come with time (and take the advice of all you guys here) and also just focus on being a safe pilot. If I spend all of my time worrying about things, I wont have much fun at all.

Thank you all for your comments, hints, advice, wisdom, interesting conversation et cetera.

This isn't a post ending the thread or anything, just summing up sorta how I feel through what I've read so far. The more you post, the more I'll read!

Happy Flying!

krenmaster

 

[rottydaddy]

You'll always forget stuff, we all do... but if you have good judgment and the right "student for life" mentality, you learn to double and triple-check yourself (without getting uptight about it). I think earning your wings strengthens that quality... I still misplace my house keys, but I've gotten better at figuring out where they are.

One of my favorite sayings when chatting with other pilots about our worst landings is "my worst landing is ahead of me".
Sounds defeatist on the surface, but that little mantra keeps me sharp, I think. Substitute the word "mistake" for "landing" and it still applies.

Your worst may very well be ahead of you... but so is your best.

As for worrying about whether or not you are making progress as you should, refer to the syllabus and/or ask your instructor... but don't worry about it; that doesn't help.
It'll take as long as it takes; your only concern should be meeting each challenge prepared and aware of the goal. That's it. Anything else you bring to your lessons, other than a desire to get that ticket and enjoy flying, is gonna weigh you down.

Do that, and you should have that "license to learn" soon enough.

Pressuring yourself to meet a deadline is another very dangerous habit for pilots- worse than complacency.

When I finally decided to relax and forget my frustration during my PP training (took a long time based on the average), I think I made more progress. Moping about cancelled lessons or other people soloing or passing the checkride with less hours than you is a really bad idea, IMHO. Distracting, and destructive.

With a mentor friend to help, you are better-supported than a lot of us; take full advantage of that chance to enhance your training. I would think of it as a stage check, where a third party gets to look not just at you as a student, but your flying as the product of your time with your regular CFI. Maybe you, too, will be able to stand back and look at that from a new angle- you'll probably realize you're doing just fine.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I can just see myself being halfway to my destination on another xc and realizing that I forgot to open my flight plan, or forgetting to request flight following (our school wants us to contact artcc and i agree), or forgetting to lean my mixture, or forgetting to start my time for a leg, or forgetting to keep track of fuel, forget some regs, forget how to use a navaid etc.

First of all - Use checklists. If the checklists you have don't cover things you are forgetting (or might forget in the future), make your own checklists that work for you, and go over them with a CFI to be sure you're not missing anything.

Second - None of the above will kill you. If you forget something, consider the consequences (For example, if you don't lean the mixture, you're going to burn more fuel - Will you still have enough to make your destination?), fix the problem, make any necessary changes in your plan, and keep flying. All of the above have easy solutions. Forgot to open your flight plan? Well, open it and let them know what time you actually left. Forgot to ask for flight following? Well, ask now. Forgot to lean the mixture? Make sure you'll still have enough fuel to make your destination, or land somewhere else and fuel up. Make note of it, and try to figure out a way to not forget that the next time.

What you can't forget is how to maintain airspeed, etc. But, it doesn't sound like that's the type of problem you're having.

 

[Ted]

Also, a lot of this stuff just becomes natural with a bit of practice. The first time I was taken up flying I couldn't see how anyone could have time to play with the mixture, since I was too busy wondering why I had to push on the yoke so hard to keep the plane straight and level (the guy I went with wanted to make this as overwhelming of an experience as possible to show how great he was - think of it like beating a 4 year old in a fist fight).

Now mixture leaning just becomes automatic, so does inputting whatever navigation I'm going to use, calling up flight following, etc. If you internalize these things, they become natural. But yes, use checklists. A list will never forget an item on it, but your brain will forget.

What you are going for is a license to learn. You're not looking to get a piece of paper that says "I am an excellent pilot", you're getting a piece of paper that says "I am capable of operating an aircraft in a safe manner so that I can go out and learn how to do things better." The trick is that, when you make a mistake, you learn from it.

Most notable advice I've received: While flying with a friend, I slipped the turn a bit from base to final since I'd planned the turn wrong. My friend (an instructor) said to me "You know that thing you did on base to final when you slipped the plane?" "Yeah" "Don't do that. That kills people."

Haven't done it since.

 

[Missa]

Thanks for your response Rottydaddy.

I think you make excellent points. There are times when I am confident and times when I'm not. One of the main contributors is my tendency to forget things. Some of the simplest things I'll forget in many aspects of life (not just flying). I can't think of any examples at the moment, but its not just normal forgetting things like 'where are my keys' or 'where did I put my shoes' etc. I am just afraid that I might forget something I am suppose to learn and have remembered. I have soloed, done two solo xc's so far. The solo xc's were not spectacular, but there were no big problems.

I can just see myself being halfway to my destination on another xc and realizing that I forgot to open my flight plan, or forgetting to request flight following (our school wants us to contact artcc and i agree), or forgetting to lean my mixture, or forgetting to start my time for a leg, or forgetting to keep track of fuel, forget some regs, forget how to use a navaid etc.

I haven't made any of those mistakes yet, but I am not past the feeling that they are all real possibilities for me. More likely than not, if I forget to do those things I will live, and there wont be any real drawbacks except that I did it wrong and thats not right. Supposing I make one of those mistakes (in the paragraph above this one), and lived, thats great that I lived, but was the flight really productive. If I cant remember to get flight following or lean my mixture or something like that, am I doing a good job of flying at all?

Those things are most likely aside from the confidence issue. I guess its mainly being scared of not being where I am suppose to be. I am also afraid of the situation that my instructor could think I am further along (a better pilot) than I actually am (at least I think that is a possibility).

But I guess at some point I have to just stop whining and crying and suck it up. I don't mean be cocky, but just realize that I have been receiving good training and they know what they are talking about when my instructor sends me on a solo xc or local. I should probably realize that I have had many successful flights to different airports and back. I am not an incompetent student pilot. I wont fly in bad wx or when it is too windy or overweight etc. I have a good friend (my CFI from last semeser, mine changed from last semester) who is always willing to talk to me and help me out with any problems I might be having. He is even going to fly with me before my FAA exam for the private. So I guess I shouldn't worry so much about having a lot of confidence and realize that confidence will come with time (and take the advice of all you guys here) and also just focus on being a safe pilot. If I spend all of my time worrying about things, I wont have much fun at all.

Thank you all for your comments, hints, advice, wisdom, interesting conversation et cetera.

This isn't a post ending the thread or anything, just summing up sorta how I feel through what I've read so far. The more you post, the more I'll read!

Happy Flying!

krenmaster

BING BING BING! You got it. It sounds like you have already done all the things you need to build your confidance. Keep building. One day it will show up. You also sound like a perfectionist. If you don't do it exactly right, if it doesn't kill you and you learn from it... it's all good. The PPL is a licence to learn and you will learn by messing something up, minimize the risk and go forward to mess something little up.

See thead: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20283

We all do it.

Missa

 

[dbman5]

One idea I haven't seen here yet is to "ride along with someone else."

This is not the same as going up with a different CFI. This is an opportunity to sit in the right seat and "turn the tables" to see how the other guy flies.

It improved my confidence quite a bit when I was able to see that (a) other pilots aren't perfect either and (b) some of those "imperfections" I was beating myself up for were also happening to other pilots. Landings are seldom perfect and they require constant small corrections unless there is no wind at all, wind gusts and thermals do push planes around no matter how good the pilot is, people do forget things, etc., etc.

I even went up recently with a guy who had been a pilot for 15 years and he had to ask me (with just over 100 hrs) to help him with his calls to the tower because he usually just flies for pleasure and seldom goes to towered airports.

Of course, the tricky part is finding someone to ride with. And some, due to liability concerns, won't take anybody up unless they are a family member or very close friend. However, if you get the opportunity and feel that the pilot is safe, take it. (There is one local pilot I don't want to go up with. He brags too much and at the same time seems to have too many "oops" stories. It's all about attitude and I'm just not comfortable with the idea of flying with him.)

 

[gprellwitz]

One idea I haven't seen here yet is to "ride along with someone else."

That's a good idea. It also allows you to sit back and take in the whole picture without needing to worry about all of the little details, which can be a real eye-opener. Sometimes is as little a thing as being able to concentrate on the houses underneath you as you take off, which you really don't have time to do when you're piloting!

And dbman, welcome to the board!

 

[Ted]

One idea I haven't seen here yet is to "ride along with someone else."

This is also just a good idea anyway to broaden your sources of info. Obviously you don't want to take in bad info, but the more people you fly with, hopefully the more good habits you can pick up (if you're selective about picking up the good habits from each person).

There is one local pilot I don't want to go up with. He brags too much and at the same time seems to have too many "oops" stories. It's all about attitude and I'm just not comfortable with the idea of flying with him.

There are a couple of those around here, too. There's one who even brags about his "Oops" stories that show a clear lack of good aeronautical decision making on his part. The problem is he doesn't end those stories with an "I screwed up, don't do what I did." We have to then tell him that.

 

[SteveinIndy]

I still remember the Mio trip and the disscussion with Saganaw approach....

"Saganaw, this is the traffic you've been calling out and I have the other plane"

"Airplane calling Saganaw, where you headed"

" Mio, NXXXXX"

"Warrior XXX, Do you know you've got a friend?"

"Yep I know Melissa"

"What's going on in Mio today?!?!"

"Breakfast"



And I had to make it into Mio... I had to pee.

Good ol' Saginaw.

 

[redtail]

This thread has expanded into interesting territory, but I took another look at the OP and feel a need to comment on this line, which pretty much sums up the issue for krenmaster, I think.

I'll probably wander a bit, too...

I can relate. You're not alone.
Honestly, learning to fly was as much about "finding myself" for me as it was about anything else.
I needed a challenge that would help me grow, preferably something I found fascinating. Flying fit the bill.
And it worked. I still lack the discipline I should have, overall, but getting the hang of flying, and planning flights, and all of it changed the way I think and how I do things.
It made me a better Me.

I remember feeling disappointed sometimes that I didn't "feel like a pilot" yet... not cocky, but... well, unsure, especially when I got an "attaboy" from somebody. start thinking about that stuff instead of just trying to clear that hurdle you've got in front of you, and you'll suffer for it.
I'm not sure how great a role "unconfidence" plays, statistically, in aviation accidents, but I know the toll it takes on flying dreams... a lot of people bail because they don't realize yet that a real aviator is always wary, but in time that self-doubt becomes just another tool in the toolbox, plenty sharp but if you are used to handling it you won't cut yourself.
I made good progress in that direction, especially when able to fly often.
And my greatest moments of pride so far have had nothing to do with an instructor or pilot acquaintance praising my skill or judgement, or nervous first-timer pax exiting with a smile after the flight... no, it's been those times when I was all alone with a puzzle or a problem and did everything just right, or surprising myself with an excellent landing at some strange field early in the morning, without even strangers there to see it.
Or the glow of finishing some just-for-the-hell-of-it flight after everything went exactly as I'd planned, and I felt I'd also built up some flying "muscles".

All of us screw up from time to time, on the other hand... but part of the seasoning is learning to just make a note to work on that deficiency; don't dwell on it.

I pretty much scared the hell out of myself when I took up flying again after a 4-year hiatus; I'll admit it. But it was a pure psych-out... there was nothing wrong, really. My checkout went well, my BFR was demanding and the CFI pulled no punches but said my basic skills were still there, and I was eager to fly.
But that first takeoff on my own was surprisingly scary. Worse than my very first solo. But I had the perspective from all my previous time, and it came to my aid after I got settled on downwind. That's the perspective that shows not "omigosh, what am I doing up here?" but "well, gotta land sometime, ain't nobody up here to do it for you... suck it up."
Turning final, I was still thinking I might just park it after the first landing, I was scared that I was scared....
but I didn't realize I was assuming, as before, that I'd make a competent landing.
And I did. I'd done it before- I knew how to do it. The butterflies were gone by the time I exited the runway, and I spent the rest of my booked time just trying to make the best landing I could. By the time it was over, I was having fun, and I felt like a pilot again.

Since then I've had the quiet heebie-jeebies, briefly, now and then, usually while driving to the airport (what's the wind really doing at the field? Is the plane OK? Does my plan make sense? It's been more than three weeks; should I? etc, etc)... but it's been a while.

And it's normal. Accept that, and you'll have that self-doubt in its cage where it belongs... present, but unable to interfere.

I feel pretty good nowadays about my ability as the sole manipulator on any given flight... now that I'm pushing 250 hours, I just have to make extra-sure I don't fall into the trap that's killed more pilots than any other:
Complacency.

Very helpful to read this because it explains the stage I'm currently at. I just returned to the cockpit this spring after a 10yr hiatus! Got my certificate in 1999 but stopped flying the following year do to finances. I was around 120hrs at the time, now I'm just shy of 160hrs and after about 7 hrs of dual, I'm PIC again. However, I'm struggling with the confidence thing. Took my 1st passengers(nephew & his girlfriend) for a short flight two days ago and I could feel that I wasn't performing as well as I do while solo. Took me 3 attempts to start the engine(which never happened before..2 at the most), and my 1st landing was a bouncer! not really bad or unsafe but I can't remember the last time I bouced a landing So after flying with 2 different CFI's and both of them telling me I was a good pilot, why am I going thru lack of total confidence? Is it just a matter of gaining more experience? I sure hope that's all. Heck one of the CFI's even commented to my two passgers that I am a good pilot(which made me feel good). On a positive note, they both told me that they really enjoyed the flight and can't wait to go again

 

[dmccormack]

Took my 1st passengers(nephew & his girlfriend) for a short flight two days ago and I could feel that I wasn't performing as well as I do while solo. Took me 3 attempts to start the engine(which never happened before..2 at the most), and my 1st landing was a bouncer! not really bad or unsafe but I can't remember the last time I bouced a landing So after flying with 2 different CFI's and both of them telling me I was a good pilot, why am I going thru lack of total confidence? Is it just a matter of gaining more experience? I sure hope that's all. Heck one of the CFI's even commented to my two passgers that I am a good pilot(which made me feel good). On a positive note, they both told me that they really enjoyed the flight and can't wait to go again

Ignore your pax during certain phases of flight and impose a sterile cockpit. It's not that hard and in no way rude -- just explain to your passengers that during takeoff, landing, and whenever the radio sounds you'll have to divert full attention to those tasks, and will get back to them as soon as you're done. Also ask them to point out other aircraft at any time.

I never had anyone complain or feel slighted. The benefit is you can concentrate and not be thinking "I gotta make this a smooth landing!" when you should be thinking, "On slope, on speed, on spot..."

As a CFI I'm used to yakking during all phases of flight, so it's a bit different... But I still brief the sterile cockpit to nervous or first timers so they know I'm truly focused on their safety.

 

[redtail]

Ignore your pax during certain phases of flight and impose a sterile cockpit. It's not that hard and in no way rude -- just explain to your passengers that during takeoff, landing, and whenever the radio sounds you'll have to divert full attention to those tasks, and will get back to them as soon as you're done. Also ask them to point out other aircraft at any time.

I never had anyone complain or feel slighted. The benefit is you can concentrate and not be thinking "I gotta make this a smooth landing!" when you should be thinking, "On slope, on speed, on spot..."

As a CFI I'm used to yakking during all phases of flight, so it's a bit different... But I still brief the sterile cockpit to nervous or first timers so they know I'm truly focused on their safety.

Indeed. I explained the stirile cockpit concept to them and they complied fully. I think I was just being too focused on being as smooth as possible which made me overthink everything a little too much. Once again, I was being my own worst critic rather than just relaxing and enjoying the flight.
thanks for the reply.

 

[redtail]

"Also ask them to point out other aircraft at any time." umm...that was something that I meant to tell them also but forgot. Next time.

good advice,thanks

 

[j1b3h0]

Many insightful comments on this thread. A couple things spring to mind: First, who's ever confident when learning a completely unfamiliar motorskill. I am much more worried when a student displays the confidence of a christian with 4 aces, but lacks the knowlege and skillset. Like others, I suggest tagging along with a fellow pilot while they are recieving dual instruction, (back seat of 4 seater) it can be awkward if the other student is embarrassed about your watching, but hey, you're both there to learn - turn the tables and let him watch you in the hero-chair, too. Ask anyone who has sat in an airliner simulator and watched pros being put through the paces, If they know what to watch for, the observer wiil catch every little detail - plenty of which the flying pilots will have been too task saturated to see.


I had a nice woman student in the Citabria, she was probably the most naturally gifted stick and rudder primary student I ever had the pleasure to teach. She flew with just her finger tips, always so coordinated, always in trim. Gentle with the throttle and the brakes, I was so proud of her. She could land on the centerline. She could handle a 5-7kt crosswind. She could recover from bouncing. She could gather it up when I make the airplane swerve all over the runway. When it came time for her to solo, well, she lacked confidence. After a particularly good half hour in the pattern during which all her landings were nice, I told her to just pull over to the side of the runway and pull the mixture. I signed her paperwork and we both agreed she'd be okay, sent her around solo. I make my students do full stop landings, on their first solo, while I stand by the side of the runway. It's customary to do 3 times around the pattern -she did only 2, but she was nervous and wanted to call it a day. She moved out of state before we finished her private. Wish I could have seen the look on her next instructor's face when he or she realized the magic talent of my former student.

Anybody who has instructed for awhile has come across a person who, despite their best efforts, is clearly not cut out for flying airplanes. It's sad for both student and teacher, who may have spent many hours, teaching/learning their hearts out.

How does all this pontification relate to confidence? Listen to your instructor. His or her measure of your ability to learn compared to other students is probably very well honed. No one with any brains climbs in to an aluminum vessel, capable of 3-digit speeds without a little humility. Open your mind and heart to learn...and relax.

 

[jesse]

I sometimes feel that instructing is about 75% confidence management.

I very very much agree with that.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Many insightful comments on this thread. A couple things spring to mind: First, who's ever confident when learning a completely unfamiliar motorskill. I am much more worried when a student displays the confidence of a christian with 4 aces, but lacks the knowlege and skillset. Like others, I suggest tagging along with a fellow pilot while they are recieving dual instruction, (back seat of 4 seater) it can be awkward if the other student is embarrassed about your watching, but hey, you're both there to learn - turn the tables and let him watch you in the hero-chair, too. Ask anyone who has sat in an airliner simulator and watched pros being put through the paces, If they know what to watch for, the observer wiil catch every little detail - plenty of which the flying pilots will have been too task saturated to see.


I had a nice woman student in the Citabria, she was probably the most naturally gifted stick and rudder primary student I ever had the pleasure to teach. She flew with just her finger tips, always so coordinated, always in trim. Gentle with the throttle and the brakes, I was so proud of her. She could land on the centerline. She could handle a 5-7kt crosswind. She could recover from bouncing. She could gather it up when I make the airplane swerve all over the runway. When it came time for her to solo, well, she lacked confidence. After a particularly good half hour in the pattern during which all her landings were nice, I told her to just pull over to the side of the runway and pull the mixture. I signed her paperwork and we both agreed she'd be okay, sent her around solo. I make my students do full stop landings, on their first solo, while I stand by the side of the runway. It's customary to do 3 times around the pattern -she did only 2, but she was nervous and wanted to call it a day. She moved out of state before we finished her private. Wish I could have seen the look on her next instructor's face when he or she realized the magic talent of my former student.

Anybody who has instructed for awhile has come across a person who, despite their best efforts, is clearly not cut out for flying airplanes. It's sad for both student and teacher, who may have spent many hours, teaching/learning their hearts out.

How does all this pontification relate to confidence? Listen to your instructor. His or her measure of your ability to learn compared to other students is probably very well honed. No one with any brains climbs in to an aluminum vessel, capable of 3-digit speeds without a little humility. Open your mind and heart to learn...and relax.

I agree with you. In fact, I stay away from pilots who display too much confidence (I mean when they have less than 100 hours total time).

I am humbled by flying and realize there is NO WAY they or I can know everything there is to know at such a low number of hours.

In fact, and I'm quite certain of this, I never will "know everything."

 

[dell30rb]

I was always very confident solo and with my instructor however I used to get a bit nervous before flights with passengers!

If it helps, you can just remember that they have no idea whats going on and they won't know if you screw up. Tell them in advance about the sterile cockpit, and ask them to be quiet when you need to focus.

Before you know it you'll be above pattern altitude, on course and climbing at Vy to your cruise altitude.. cracking jokes and wondering why no one is saying anything. "oh you guys can talk now, sorry!"

Last time I had a few passengers I had a good night landing with the stall horn sounding just before I touched down. One of my passengers said "good landing" and they all started thanking me for the ride etc... then one asks "what was that beeping sound?" I replied "oh it was the stall warning". They all did a collective "*gasp oh *****

I quickly explained that the stall horn sounds 5-10 knots above the stall, and you want to touchdown just above stalling speed, hence hearing the warning sound just before you touchdown is a proper - good landing.

They immediately changed their mood "oh yeah.. good job!" I even got a high-five

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I was always very confident solo and with my instructor however I used to get a bit nervous before flights with passengers!

If it helps, you can just remember that they have no idea whats going on and they won't know if you screw up. Tell them in advance about the sterile cockpit, and ask them to be quiet when you need to focus.

Before you know it you'll be above pattern altitude, on course and climbing at Vy to your cruise altitude.. cracking jokes and wondering why no one is saying anything. "oh you guys can talk now, sorry!"

Last time I had a few passengers I had a good night landing with the stall horn sounding just before I touched down. One of my passengers said "good landing" and they all started thanking me for the ride etc... then one asks "what was that beeping sound?" I replied "oh it was the stall warning". They all did a collective "*gasp oh *****

I quickly explained that the stall horn sounds 5-10 knots above the stall, and you want to touchdown just above stalling speed, hence hearing the warning sound just before you touchdown is a proper - good landing.

They immediately changed their mood "oh yeah.. good job!" I even got a high-five

I can't remember the last time I got a high five. And sometimes my stall horn does not go off. So yeah, good job.

 

[dell30rb]

I can't remember the last time I got a high five. And sometimes my stall horn does not go off. So yeah, good job.

well me neither.. sometimes it does not go off and occasionally it goes off for too long and the landing is more of a plop

I was using that as an example of how little most passengers know about airplanes. They think "stall warning" means flaming death (even 1 foot above the runway) but turned their attitude around 180 degrees when I told them that was a good thing.

 

[j1b3h0]

I agree with you. In fact, I stay away from pilots who display too much confidence (I mean when they have less than 100 hours total time).

I am humbled by flying and realize there is NO WAY they or I can know everything there is to know at such a low number of hours.

In fact, and I'm quite certain of this, I never will "know everything."

Kimberly: There is no way one can know all there is to know, regardless one's flight time. Heck, just knowing the sheer volume if information I'm supposed to commit to memory, know pretty well and be familiar with is enough to keep even MY (oversized) ego between the wingtips and keep me humble. I overheard an old sage of a Captain once say "People who act like they know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who actually do."
How did your tailwheel lesson go?

 

[jnmeade]

It may help you to build confidence to have a good understanding of how you fly relative to various standards. Might be useful to go back to the PTS and the Airplane Flying Handbook and see how you do to those standards. Then expand your sphere. My point is if you have a good command of what constitutes good performance you'll hopefully feel more confident when you demonstrate it or you will be motivated to achieve it. Get your CFI to debrief relative to specific goals or concerns you have.

 

[gprellwitz]

Kimberly: There is no way one can know all there is to know, regardless one's flight time. Heck, just knowing the sheer volume if information I'm supposed to commit to memory, know pretty well and be familiar with is enough to keep even MY (oversized) ego between the wingtips and keep me humble. I overheard an old sage of a Captain once say "People who act like they know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who actually do."
How did your tailwheel lesson go?

Got this from a coworker decades ago.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Kimberly: There is no way one can know all there is to know, regardless one's flight time. Heck, just knowing the sheer volume if information I'm supposed to commit to memory, know pretty well and be familiar with is enough to keep even MY (oversized) ego between the wingtips and keep me humble. I overheard an old sage of a Captain once say "People who act like they know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who actually do."
How did your tailwheel lesson go?

Decided (though it hurt) to cancel once again. Even if it only costs 1 - 1.5 hours of airplane time, and 1-2 hours of instructor time, I just can't afford it. I emailed the instructor and he was very understanding. He invited me out to their EAA chapter's weekly "Saturday BBQs" and he wanted to meet me anyway and show me the plane. Great guy. One day, maybe after Christmas (I got a small bonus last year), I will go.