Student aircraft

[RRman]

I am new to this forum so thanks for your input.
I am a student pilot that is more than halfway through my license requirements. I am training in a 172 but have flown a 182 as well.
I will have to move to California from Oregon for work. My family is staying in Oregon. I am looking to purchase an airplane that will satisfy my needs to commute from California home to Oregon about 450NM a couple of times a month. The project will last about 2 - 3 years so I will be flying back and forth quite often.
We also have a son that lives in McCall Idaho we would be visiting as well.
My plan is to complete my PPL and continue to receive my instrument rating.
My budget would be in the $50K range.
What are your thoughts.
Thanks

 

[Clark1961]

Dakota (not that I'm biased or anything)

Anyway, you don't mention how big the family is and that may be a consideration for the trips to McCall. Otherwise something like an RV might be an option.

 

[Tom-D]

Dakota (not that I'm biased or anything)

Anyway, you don't mention how big the family is and that may be a consideration for the trips to McCall. Otherwise something like an RV might be an option.

McCall isn't any problems just follow the Highway in and you will find it's not that high. He will find higher DAs in Ca. than Id.

I'd suggest a CoEZ.

 

[RRman]

More information. We have a family of 4 but most of my flying will be done with me and the dog with my wife flying when she can. Both our sons are grown and on their own. I guess I would be using the airplane to commute from California to Oregon more than anything else.

 

[flyersfan31]

Well, you could certainly get a late 1950s 182 for your budget.

I would recommend that you go the rental route for a year or two before you make any plunge. EVEN if some guy on your field has a "really nice 182/172/whoknowswhat that's been maintained like a Rolls Royce and you could get a REALLYGOODDEAL." Your budget indicates a pretty low limit (no offense, but one $40k airplane and a bad annual will blow that in one fell swoop). Why not see how flying those trips fits into your lifestyle and budget first.

For 'sample, let's say a rental 172 is maybe $125 (+/-, it doesn't matter for these purposes) and you fly your proposed trip maybe 2x month for 12mos. 3 hr min rental, so that's $375 (plus any additional fuel costs - my old FBO would only reimburse you for fuel purchases elsewhere at his wholesale cost, so I still ate some fuel costs on a "wet" rental). 2x month is $750, 12 mos is $9,000. No equity. No mx costs either. No worries about selling an old plane with Narco avionics and a brown corduroy interior with cracking Royalite when you decide you'd rather have a Bonanza.

Loan on a $40k plane, for 15yr term is roughly 375-400$/mo. So, let's say $4800/yr. An annual, unless performed for free by TomD, is about 800 for a basic 172, plus maybe $1k/2k in squawks/routine mx. Insurance, mebbe $800/yr. Tie down mebbe $600/yr. Hmmmm. Looks good. Then you buy, say, 100hrs worth of fuel at say 8GPH and $5/gal (low in my parts) - that's another $4000. I'm ignoring any potential engine rebuild/OH costs.

Bear in mind that you don't really accumulate equity (if you even consider an airplane an investment, which I don't) for a number of years, so your loan payments are mostly just interest.

Looking at those equations? Worried about maybe running up against budgetary limits? I say rent. Figure out if you like that commute. Fly different planes - maybe you like those low wings better. Maybe you lose your job. Maybe gas goes up to $6/gal (it is over $7 in some parts of the country already.) There will ALWAYS be used planes for sale and they will almost certainly drop in value, or at best hold even. Every new DA40/SR22/SR20/C172/C182 that rolls off the line clicks another couple bucks off the value of a 1965 172 with worn out corduroy and cracked Royalite. Eventually you're buying scrap metal with an engine of a given lifespan.

One man's opinion, worth what you paid for it.

 

[RRman]

Thanks so much for the input. It looks like my best move would be to rent for awhile and see how flying fits my lifestyle. As has been pointed out to try to fly on a schedule with out having my instrument rating would not be a wise idea. I will continue to read this forum and in a year or so maybe I will asking about a good cross country IFR airplane. Thanks

 

[denverpilot]

Thanks so much for the input. It looks like my best move would be to rent for awhile and see how flying fits my lifestyle. As has been pointed out to try to fly on a schedule with out having my instrument rating would not be a wise idea. I will continue to read this forum and in a year or so maybe I will asking about a good cross country IFR airplane. Thanks

Even trying to fly on a schedule *with* your Instrument Rating can be impossible without a very capable aircraft and a lot more training than just the rating.

With personal aircraft, if your schedule can't swing at the very least, two days either direction, and once in a while four days... You're better off in cattle class on an airliner.

The costs of buying an airplane for personal travel are better spent on upgrades to First Class if your priority is the travel schedule. You'll be alive in ten years too.

If your priority is in flying yourself safely even with schedule changes and hard thought about re-routes, weather briefings, capabilities of your equipment and yourself, and risk analysis -- flying yourself is the way to go and very rewarding.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

With personal aircraft, if your schedule can't swing at the very least, two days either direction, and once in a while four days... You're better off in cattle class on an airliner.

Depends on where you are and where you're going. You live in a major metro area that's a major airline hub and can probably get a lot of places quite easily. But, let's say you're trying to get from Fairmont, MN to Siloam Springs, AR. The nearest airline airport to Fairmont is Fort Dodge, the nearest to Siloam Springs is NW AR Regional. The cheapest cattle-class airline ticket from FOD to XNA is well over $500 and unless you leave Fairmont at 4 AM to make the 6:50 AM flight out of FOD, you're going to get there faster by driving the 10+ hours instead.

In cases like that - and there are many - It's much better to have an instrument rating and an instrument-capable personal aircraft and use it when you can, and on the few occasions that won't work, you can rent a car. You'll save a ton of time - KFRM to KSLG is 447nm and even a 182 will do that in 3.5 hours. I usually figure $1/nm for the cost, so we're talking $894 for the round trip. Door to door for the round trip, let's say it's 8 hours total via GA including preflight and the inevitable headwind. Driving is 21 hours round trip, airlining it with the drive on either end is also 21 hours round trip (8 going, 13+ returning).

So... Airline cattle class is $552 and 21 hours. Driving (assuming 25mpg and $4/gal and assuming you're absorbing the costs of having a car already) is 21 hours and $188. GA is 8 hours and $894.

Clearly, airlines will be the last option here - It's just as fast to drive and way cheaper. If your time is worth a mere $25/hr (and I daresay that most of us in this hobby must make at least that) then GA is "saving" another $325 which just about ties it with the airline. Now if you consider that you'll probably need an extra night in a hotel if you drive, and probably if you use the airlines, to get your work done and get back - Throw another $100 on. Now GA looks pretty good, doesn't it? And if you have another person with you, even more so!

Sure, there will be times where wx or mx dictates that you must use one of the other options, but a fairly plain-jane GA aircraft and a pilot who is instrument rated and proficient will probably complete 90-95% of their desired trips. You want a known-ice twin? Yeah, that'll cost you a TON and get you up to 98%. But, using GA for travel is not as bad as everyone says. I do it all the time, and I don't have a known-ice twin. In fact, for me it doesn't even work out to make sense to rent a known-ice twin for that last 5% (even though I'm one of the very lucky few who CAN rent a known-ice twin), as it costs so damn much to stay current in it that it makes more sense to either cancel those trips or use one of the alternate methods of transport.

If your priority is in flying yourself safely even with schedule changes and hard thought about re-routes, weather briefings, capabilities of your equipment and yourself, and risk analysis -- flying yourself is the way to go and very rewarding.

Isn't that all of our priority? I must say, though the issues with weather, maintenance, etc obviously do exist, they are not as dire as we seem to make them out to be. Always have a backup plan and be willing to execute it, and you'll find GA to be a fairly reliable mode of transportation. FWIW, my favorite backup plan for when I have to be there is to leave early enough that if for any reason I am unable to continue the flight, I can land, rent a car and drive and still make it on time. If I am able to complete the flight, I'm way early and can do other things. If not, no sweat, I'll still be on time.