Story of My Failed Negotiation on C182

Tom-D said:
Then you will miss a lot of aircraft. Represent your aircraft correctly, and price it right, then stick to the price.

Due diligence is on the buyer, and the cost of any inspections to gain that, is the buyers.

If the buyer isn't smart enough to recognize a good buy when they see one doesn't deserve to own it.

JMHO
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That was the deal on my plane, I was allowed to look at anything I wanted, but the price was the price and the inspection was to verify that it was as advertised.

Granted this was before the bottom fell out of the market.
 
JoseCuervo said:
What do you do for all the ones that aren't represented correctly?

Lots of lipstick on a pig type of deals, and the cost of a pre-buy from a remote location likely kills a lot of transactions. :dunno:

I liked the idea of all the costs and the shares negotiated up front, and, if somebody wanted to scuttle the transaction and they had value from the transaction, they reimbursed.

Each one will be different. My $350K King Air will be a bit different.
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The 'lipstick on a pig' planes don't need a full prebuy, just someone with knowledge to do a preflight and look through the logs, this is typically enough to know if you want to pursue the deal or not. I get calls/PMs fairly regularly by people on the board asking if I could look over a plane that's local, or even travel to give an initial evaluation. Saves them time and money only having to go deal with pre qualified planes.
 
A chance I'm willing to take, and a strategy that has worked well for 25+ years and hundreds of planes. It's a two-way street and inspections are a necessary part of the deal. If you're an as-is seller, you need an as-is buyer. If you can find him, more power to you.

How did that work out on the last one you tried to sell?

Tom-D said:
Then you will miss a lot of aircraft. Represent your aircraft correctly, and price it right, then stick to the price.

Due diligence is on the buyer, and the cost of any inspections to gain that, is the buyers.

If the buyer isn't smart enough to recognize a good buy when they see one doesn't deserve to own it.

JMHO
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Skylane81E said:
That was the deal on my plane, I was allowed to look at anything I wanted, but the price was the price and the inspection was to verify that it was as advertised.

Granted this was before the bottom fell out of the market.
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This was how I sold my last plane too. I priced it near the top of the market for the type and equip and disclosed everything I could think of. Allowed any kind of inspection they wanted, but the plane was the plane, and I knew it was in good working order with no major squawks. The second guy who came bought it for asking price and we split the repair of a small crack on the tunnel of the nose gear which cost me $119. He's happy as can be with the plane.
 
docmirror said:
This was how I sold my last plane too. I priced it near the top of the market for the type and equip and disclosed everything I could think of. Allowed any kind of inspection they wanted, but the plane was the plane, and I knew it was in good working order with no major squawks. The second guy who came bought it for asking price and we split the repair of a small crack on the tunnel of the nose gear which cost me $119. He's happy as can be with the plane.
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Lol, sounds like mine, a bad flasher and burned out bulb on the beacon mechanically, and widow selling needed to mail a letter to the FAA stating she was sole heir to the last registered owner to keep the paper trail intact.
 
wabower said:
A chance I'm willing to take, and a strategy that has worked well for 25+ years and hundreds of planes. It's a two-way street and inspections are a necessary part of the deal. If you're an as-is seller, you need an as-is buyer. If you can find him, more power to you.

How did that work out on the last one you tried to sell?
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It worked very well, the buyer knew its condition up front.
 
bartmc said:
So he wasn't blind? I'm assuming you're talking about the Fairchild?
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My 2 prior Cessna 170s were sold the way I sell all aircraft except the F-24

the other 48 was not advertised it was seen by a Airline pilot and he bought it on the spot for cash. no other inspections. in the early 90's he paid 3 times what it was worth.

the B was advertised on the 170 association page and sold in 2 days, to a young man who looked it over, I took him and his wife flying, and he bought it and I delivered it at the asking price, plus 1 free annual and a ride home.

The F-24, I was paid the damages, the insurance company took custody and sold the aircraft on their web site. no real inspection there either.

Wayne likes to sell big multi engine turbines and should do them as he states, there is a huge pile of money involved and the serious airworthiness issues to consider, unlike the aircraft most commonly bought by the folks who read this web page.
I seriously hope any one who is smart enough to fly a Cessna 172 is smart enough to learn the issues that the cessna has and know the market well enough to make a decision as to " is it a good deal"
 
Doesn't matter how much the planes cost, only that the buyer knows the truth and the seller tells it. For non-mechanic owners, inspections are the only way to determine the truth.

Anybody who thinks singles and twins can be adequately inspected in a few minutes, or that they can trust the seller's representations regarding condition and paperwork needs only to visit a shop that sees the aftermath of such foolishness and prepares the estimates to repair the problems.

I still have copies of the $19,000 estimate to fix an A-36 that ended up at $24,000 before it was all over. Yep, fresh annual before sale, new paint and interior (but the wrong interior for that model, which is why the fit was a bit strange to a trained eye).

The reason for all the bitching about first annuals costing 20% of the price of the plane is simply because the buyers did a half-ass pre-buy under terms similar to those you described. Ain't happening here.

Tom-D said:
My 2 prior Cessna 170s were sold the way I sell all aircraft except the F-24

the other 48 was not advertised it was seen by a Airline pilot and he bought it on the spot for cash. no other inspections. in the early 90's he paid 3 times what it was worth.

the B was advertised on the 170 association page and sold in 2 days, to a young man who looked it over, I took him and his wife flying, and he bought it and I delivered it at the asking price, plus 1 free annual and a ride home.

The F-24, I was paid the damages, the insurance company took custody and sold the aircraft on their web site. no real inspection there either.

Wayne likes to sell big multi engine turbines and should do them as he states, there is a huge pile of money involved and the serious airworthiness issues to consider, unlike the aircraft most commonly bought by the folks who read this web page.
I seriously hope any one who is smart enough to fly a Cessna 172 is smart enough to learn the issues that the cessna has and know the market well enough to make a decision as to " is it a good deal"
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wabower said:
Doesn't matter how much the planes cost, only that the buyer knows the truth and the seller tells it. For non-mechanic owners, inspections are the only way to determine the truth.

Only when you trust your inspector. Even then we see buyers get screwed because they don't have a clue as to what they are buying.

Anybody who thinks singles and twins can be adequately inspected in a few minutes, or that they can trust the seller's representations regarding condition and paperwork needs only to visit a shop that sees the aftermath of such foolishness and prepares the estimates to repair the problems.

Where did I imply the inspection should be short?

I still have copies of the $19,000 estimate to fix an A-36 that ended up at $24,000 before it was all over. Yep, fresh annual before sale, new paint and interior (but the wrong interior for that model, which is why the fit was a bit strange to a trained eye).

We all have horror stories, but seldom does a great deal get the attention that the bad does. 100% of the news is made by 2% of the people. same here.

The reason for all the bitching about first annuals costing 20% of the price of the plane is simply because the buyers did a half-ass pre-buy under terms similar to those you described. Ain't happening here.
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Any buyer that is smart enough to know what they want, should be smart enough to know the soft spots of the type. It's just a matter of doing your home work, It ain't like this is brain surgery.There are numerous pages like this to discuss the aircraft, the ADs are all on line now, the type clubs are an easy place to get info. You no long must trust some dufus to give you what you need to know.
How many threads have we seen on this page alone about a bad pre-buy costing a huge amount of money because the buyer trusted some dufus to do a Pre-buy that has no real definition to start with?
 
Sorry I missed your question. The older straight 90's and A-models, as well as the F-90's had ~5' less wing. I can't say for certain that you wouldn't be able to negotiate a cheaper rate, but willing to bet on the outcome of the negotiation. IME, a 90 is a 90 at the FBO insofar as hangars are concerned.

Neither will fit in a 40' hangar, all will fit in a 60' hangar.

JoseCuervo said:
What is the C model going to set me back? Won't I have to get a bigger hangar with the C Model?

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Yes, your approach is correct. I was just short cutting a bit due to my trust and the knowledge of the plane from my buddy.

I think your second paragraph describes what I thought we were doing.
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