Stopping the bleeding

[sddiver]

I see no evidence whatsoever this is at play.

Let me help you.

My instructor has such high standards, that I felt it would take me another year to master the radio to his expectations at a cost of $200/hr. After talking with him, he couldn't tell me how long it would take, and couldn't suggest a way for me to practice without the heavy cost of flying.

He's being taken for an expensive ride.

He's performing to PTS, he's soloed and done his xc. What's left is to get that checkride done and then worry about mastering the radio ect.

 

[MAKG1]

Let me help you.




He's being taken for an expensive ride.

He's performing to PTS, he's soloed and done his xc. What's left is to get that checkride done and then worry about mastering the radio ect.

How can you possibly know that without at least flying with him?

For all you know, the radio work could be making him screw up everything else. That's really serious. Getting flustered and missing stuff is one of those things that can bust a check ride even if all the maneuvers are to PTS. Special emphasis areas are important, especially the one about the DPE needing to take control to guarantee safety of flight.

A flight with another instructor is often useful for getting out of a rut, but do us all a favor and withhold judgment until someone else actually flies with him. You're not doing anyone any favors.

The guy has been through four instructors. This argues very strongly that the problem at hand is not the instructors'.

To the OP, something that hasn't been mentioned and I suspect might help at least a little is a tower tour. That's free and sometimes even hassle-free. Meet the guys on the other end. They're regular humans and are just trying to make it all work. I don't know if it will help or not, but at least it's cost-friendly and rather fun.

When the guys at the other end are just other guys and not FAA cops or whatever, it takes a lot of the fear out. And they really aren't cops.

Something else that helps -- a lot -- is hearing them screw up. But you can't plan that. I've been cleared to land while I was already on a taxiway, for instance.

 

[RotorDude]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but have you considered PilotEdge?
They have a free trial period, but you need to have some kind of sim, though it can be a very simple inexpensive one.

 

[Mikey1719]

Thank you for the additional suggestions. It has really helped to give me options. It also pushed me to self check specifically what my radio deficiencies are.

First, I would like to defend myself a little. My current CFI is very old school, and a semi-retired CFI. The individual that said it shouldn't have taken so long for 143 hrs didn't work with my CFI. I'm lucky to get a couple of days a month because of his schedule. I have taken vacation days from work to be able to coincide with his schedule. I've been with him since last March. Secondly the individual that said after 4 instructors the problem is probably me. Yes the problem was definitely me with my first instructor. I suffered from information overload and the radio was a big problem. I just don't think he should have yelled at me when I made a bad call and fired me. Second instructor was a flake, and my third was my fault for being inpatient and going elsewhere to finish up.

After getting that out of the way LOL. I have been able to discover that my main problem with the radio, and why I freeze up, is when I don't know my specific location. I know where I am on the chart, but I don't know the city. This can be a problem with FF. I don't have any other problem with the radio in controlled or uncontrolled airport pattern work, or calling in at familiar airports. I truly feel that flying at this point is instinctual, and I don't get flustered flying while trying to communicate. One of my instructors was a "chatty cathy" and I didn't have a problem talking with him while performing maneuvers. I hear this is a common checkride test.

I liked the suggestion to get on ham radio. I had forgotten that I was a big CB user back in the 70s and loved it. Any one remember sideband? I didn't have an issue speaking then, so I think I have it in me now. I probably just need to have more self confidence. I also was a big hang glider enthusiast in my teens, which is probably why my instructor tells me that he is amazed that my flares are so good. My problem (according to him) when I joined up with him were my approaches. We wanted me to hold the speeds within 1 kt even in turbulence. He worked with me extensibly and I can say I got that down now.

With all of your suggestions I feel I have 3 choices. It's good to have choices now, because I felt I was at the end of my rope while writing my first post.

I have ordered the "squawk vfr" CD. (thank you write-stuff). I am also going to check into American Flyers (thank you exNCsurfer) to spend a couple of weekends to finish up. They have a local in Santa Monica which is really close to me. My wife's coworker used to be a CFI at Santa Monica, and I'm going to wait for his input. I believe this is my best option at this point. Another option is go back to the college and attend the second semester again. All of these options would allow me to get my check ride before my knowledge exam expires. Of course my third option is to continue with my present CFI, and if it takes me past my exam expiration, then so be it.

All of your input has given me a lot of options, which is a lot more than I thought I had. Thank you very much and you guys are the best!

 

[PaulS]

Thank you for the additional suggestions. It has really helped to give me options. It also pushed me to self check specifically what my radio deficiencies are.

First, I would like to defend myself a little. My current CFI is very old school, and a semi-retired CFI. The individual that said it shouldn't have taken so long for 143 hrs didn't work with my CFI. I'm lucky to get a couple of days a month because of his schedule. I have taken vacation days from work to be able to coincide with his schedule. I've been with him since last March. Secondly the individual that said after 4 instructors the problem is probably me. Yes the problem was definitely me with my first instructor. I suffered from information overload and the radio was a big problem. I just don't think he should have yelled at me when I made a bad call and fired me. Second instructor was a flake, and my third was my fault for being inpatient and going elsewhere to finish up.

After getting that out of the way LOL. I have been able to discover that my main problem with the radio, and why I freeze up, is when I don't know my specific location. I know where I am on the chart, but I don't know the city. This can be a problem with FF. I don't have any other problem with the radio in controlled or uncontrolled airport pattern work, or calling in at familiar airports. I truly feel that flying at this point is instinctual, and I don't get flustered flying while trying to communicate. One of my instructors was a "chatty cathy" and I didn't have a problem talking with him while performing maneuvers. I hear this is a common checkride test.

I liked the suggestion to get on ham radio. I had forgotten that I was a big CB user back in the 70s and loved it. Any one remember sideband? I didn't have an issue speaking then, so I think I have it in me now. I probably just need to have more self confidence. I also was a big hang glider enthusiast in my teens, which is probably why my instructor tells me that he is amazed that my flares are so good. My problem (according to him) when I joined up with him were my approaches. We wanted me to hold the speeds within 1 kt even in turbulence. He worked with me extensibly and I can say I got that down now.

With all of your suggestions I feel I have 3 choices. It's good to have choices now, because I felt I was at the end of my rope while writing my first post.

I have ordered the "squawk vfr" CD. (thank you write-stuff). I am also going to check into American Flyers (thank you exNCsurfer) to spend a couple of weekends to finish up. They have a local in Santa Monica which is really close to me. My wife's coworker used to be a CFI at Santa Monica, and I'm going to wait for his input. I believe this is my best option at this point. Another option is go back to the college and attend the second semester again. All of these options would allow me to get my check ride before my knowledge exam expires. Of course my third option is to continue with my present CFI, and if it takes me past my exam expiration, then so be it.

All of your input has given me a lot of options, which is a lot more than I thought I had. Thank you very much and you guys are the best!

Go visit a tower.

 

[jesse]

The best advice I can give is this:

1.) the controllers are actually just people
2.) people that know english very well
3.) you're just having a very simple conversation with them
4.) so just remember to speak english back.
5.) Mostly, just quit thinking so hard, talk, if you miss something they'll ask again for it.
6.) it's not a big deal if your brain goes blank on the radio. Don't feel bad when it happens. It happens to EVERYONE, controllers included. Don't feel bad about it, don't focus on it, don't worry about it, just move on. Moving on is just a matter of listening and talking.

 

[weilke]

Consider going somewhere peaceful to finish up. Get the a couple of hours checkride prep and take your ride with a local DPE. Being timid on the radiowork has never killed anyone, if you can fly to PTS standards at a sleepy class D or uncontrolled field, you are safe to go off on your own.

 

[Cajun_Flyer]

I have ordered the "squawk vfr" CD. (thank you write-stuff). I am also going to check into American Flyers (thank you exNCsurfer) to spend a couple of weekends to finish up. They have a local in Santa Monica which is really close to me. My wife's coworker used to be a CFI at Santa Monica, and I'm going to wait for his input. I believe this is my best option at this point. Another option is go back to the college and attend the second semester again. All of these options would allow me to get my check ride before my knowledge exam expires. Of course my third option is to continue with my present CFI, and if it takes me past my exam expiration, then so be it.

All of your input has given me a lot of options...

And I like that none of the ones you are considering involve quitting

PaulS - I'm pretty sure he said earlier that he has visited a tower.

 

[Matthew]

Consider going somewhere peaceful to finish up. Get the a couple of hours checkride prep and take your ride with a local DPE. Being timid on the radiowork has never killed anyone, if you can fly to PTS standards at a sleepy class D or uncontrolled field, you are safe to go off on your own.

Good points. Once you start flying on your own, the radio work will start to come more naturally. Right now you might be having some trouble from nerves due to the CFI demanding too much.

 

[weilke]

Good points. Once you start flying on your own, the radio work will start to come more naturally. Right now you might be having some trouble from nerves due to the CFI demanding too much.

Most tower controllers are exceedingly patient with pilots who are rusty, use non-standard terminology or are simply confused.

Well, most, except maybe for this guy:

https://youtu.be/sTZcViXWIB4

 

[JoseCuervo]

Does anyone really understand what the OP's real issue is?

I have read the thread, I think, and the only real "issue" seems to be not knowing his location on initial call up.

Doesn't know what city he is near.


He claims he is good in the pattern, and good with controlled and non-controlled airports.

This does not seem to be a radio issue, but some sort of a lack of local geography. Not sure how an adult lives and drives in a local area without recognizing towns and landmarks.

Even so, lots of times the reporting is "5 miles south of Podunk, crossing the river at 4,500." Those reporting points can be pre-planned 5-10 minutes early.

There is something missing in this tale. It seems like there might be a simple solution.

Quitting doesn't make sense, but, then again, 143 hours and no certificate doesn't make sense.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

About knowing where you are. Controllers generally think in terms of VOR's. So before you key up the mike, check the chart and check the approx distance and radial from the nearest VOR and they'll have a place to immediately look for your squalk. Obviously, if you're talking to a tower, you'll use the airport.

Other tip, some new guys will occasionally mistake heading for direction to the fix. Fr'instance, you're on a SW heading, you'll report "10 SW OF Podunk VOR". Whoopsie, you're really 10 NE of Podunk VOR. Use the bottom of your DG when reporting direction from a fix you're flying toward.

 

[Matthew]

At the case D where I fly, isn't uncommon to hear pilots coming in to get their three tower controlled landings. You can tell right away they've never done more than a couple position reports at their untowered airport. But that's all that's required. If the OP is doing a lot of FF and the CFI is demanding an ATP level of communication style, it may be a long time until he's happy.

 

[wrbix]

Re radio communications, one trick I've found helps me is to throw in an occasional "good morning" or "good afternoon" on initial call up or change over, and a "g'day" at sign off/change over - almost always gets a similar response from ATC and sets a bit less formal tone to susequent comms at least in my mind.
Now someone here will be along to scold me for adding extra syllables - but, at least where I fly, it's not THAT congested. YMMV of course.

 

[weilke]

Now someone here will be along to scold me for adding extra syllables - but, at least where I fly, it's not THAT congested. YMMV of course.

Lets get it out of the way then:

You are wasting syllables, you could step on some critical communication, your radio will run out of electrons, it wears out your headset jack, this is dangerous, who taught you that, I hope I never have to fly near you. Also, it violates 14 CFR 91.1435664(b)(1)c* which governs the use of syllables and establishes the charge for declaring an emergency. But there is a chief counsel opinion that limits extra syllables to gender neutral terms.

 

[wrbix]

Lets get it out of the way then:

You are wasting syllables, you could step on some critical communication, your radio will run out of electrons, it wears out your headset jack, this is dangerous, who taught you that, I hope I never have to fly near you. Also, it violates 14 CFR 91.1435664(b)(1)c* which governs the use of syllables and establishes the charge for declaring an emergency. But there is a chief counsel opinion that limits extra syllables to gender neutral terms.

Careful.....your time on this board is showing.