STL ATC folks are outstanding

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asgcpa

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So I have been getting mixed feedback on here about my proposed flight to SUS via STL. The majority of feedback has been great, to do a TnG at STL then on to SUS. There has been a few don't do it type comments.

I called STL Tower to find out if it would be an issue on a Sunday to do a TnG then on to SUS. I was told "absolutely no problem - our airport is your airport". I mentioned I was concerned about push times and slower GA aircraft, and he said not to worry about it but they appreciated the call. They are all for helping pilots out.

All I can say is ....wow. These folks are outstanding.

Guess I have my answer
 
I thought I noticed a disturbance in the space/time equilibrium that is normally only caused by a GA piston airplane landing at a class bravo airport. You almost destroyed the universe by going there. You are dangerous.
 
The controllers seem to be getting more accommodating throughout the country. There will always bee some who really aren't crazy about us little guys.
 
As long as there's a pilot who knows his or her airplane, and is willing to be flexible, there's a controller happy to help out. Sometimes, calling ahead is the best move.


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MarkZ said:
What did I tell ya? :)


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You were right Mark. Thanks for the advice re times at ORD. Hope to talk to you over the airwaves....do my flight times correspond to your shifts?
 
asgcpa said:
You were right Mark. Thanks for the advice re times at ORD. Hope to talk to you over the airwaves....do my flight times correspond to your shifts?
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Sort of, I'll probably see you on the inbound flight, but I'll be with my family when you depart.


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asgcpa said:
So I have been getting mixed feedback on here about my proposed flight to SUS via STL. The majority of feedback has been great, to do a TnG at STL then on to SUS. There has been a few don't do it type comments.

I called STL Tower to find out if it would be an issue on a Sunday to do a TnG then on to SUS. I was told "absolutely no problem - our airport is your airport". I mentioned I was concerned about push times and slower GA aircraft, and he said not to worry about it but they appreciated the call. They are all for helping pilots out.

All I can say is ....wow. These folks are outstanding.

Guess I have my answer
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I'm at ALN across the river. Went to Operation Raincheck at STL a few years ago and they were begging us to use STL approach. Since TWA/American is gone they need all the work they can get. Loved making a T&G on their billion dollar runway. ;)
 
In my travels I've come across some approach control facilities that were very accommodating. Boston, Cleveland and Chicago were not among them.

Oh. I don't know if she is still there, but there was one at Detroit nobody wanted to talk to. She was a biatch on the radio.
 
Norman said:
In my travels I've come across some approach control facilities that were very accommodating. Boston, Cleveland and Chicago were not among them.
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I never had a problem with Cleveland when I was working up there. I got cleared into/thru their airspace all the time.

St. Louis on the other hand...I can count on one finger how many times I've been cleared into/thru their airspace. And, they regularly create (what I consider to be) a dangerous situation for FLIBs flying into/out of SUS, CPS, SET and 1H0. I'm always told to remain clear of the bravo when I go into Creve Coeur, which I typically do monthly. That means I'm flying at less than 1500' AGL with a lot of other traffic going in all directions because they too are being held below the bravo deck going into the area airports.

It's not a good situation.
 
The worst problems I have had with controllers in the US have been with class C airspace where there is controller training. I remember more than once holding short for an airliner on a 10 mile final. I think such a controller would be duct taped and thrown out the door at most class bravo airports.
 
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That brings back memories from when I was based at Springfield, Mo. Lots of controller training and lots of "huh, WTF did you just say?" responses from pilots.
 
I like it when there are some GA ops; It makes my feel big in the Caravan...
 
One of my buddies is a CRJ SKW driver. He said its neat how caravans hover so well when coming off 28R. :D


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MarkZ said:
One of my buddies is a CRJ SKW driver. He said its neat how caravans hover so well when coming off 28R. :D
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Lol, yeah, the other day I think I just about completed the O'Hare 8 while still over the runway... Crazy winds outta the west.
 
I'd say the majority of the ATC and tower folk are pretty nice. In fact, most of the tower people I've talked with are very friendly.
 
I'm a bit bemused that what you call outstanding is considered normal in the Pacific NW.
 
timwinters said:
St. Louis on the other hand...I can count on one finger how many times I've been cleared into/thru their airspace. And, they regularly create (what I consider to be) a dangerous situation for FLIBs flying into/out of SUS, CPS, SET and 1H0. I'm always told to remain clear of the bravo when I go into Creve Coeur, which I typically do monthly. That means I'm flying at less than 1500' AGL with a lot of other traffic going in all directions because they too are being held below the bravo deck going into the area airports.

It's not a good situation.
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I had the same thing happen to me last year going into SUS. thankfully it was really turbulent down low, so I would remember that flight for a long time. Staying under/out of B while in new airspace and getting bounced around made some fun. I will be making that trip a few times a year visiting the in laws, so I guess I will get very familiar quickly.
 
charheep said:
I had the same thing happen to me last year going into SUS. thankfully it was really turbulent down low, so I would remember that flight for a long time. Staying under/out of B while in new airspace and getting bounced around made some fun. I will be making that trip a few times a year visiting the in laws, so I guess I will get very familiar quickly.
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ATL is the same way. Kinda selfish with the Bravo space. I'd rather go around at a higher altitude (depending on time of day) than get my fillings rattled loose down low.
 
garyb said:
I'm a bit bemused that what you call outstanding is considered normal in the Pacific


Haven't had much luck getting VFR clearance around ORD. So last time I flew VFR into STL they were great. This time they are accommodating about the future approach. ORD is far busier which explains difference in cooperation.
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rbridges said:
ATL is the same way. Kinda selfish with the Bravo space. I'd rather go around at a higher altitude (depending on time of day) than get my fillings rattled loose down low.
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They use to be pretty good. I would be able to get "over the top" of KATL all the time. Last time I went through about a year ago and asked for it they laughed at me.
 
asgcpa said:
So I have been getting mixed feedback on here about my proposed flight to SUS via STL. The majority of feedback has been great, to do a TnG at STL then on to SUS. There has been a few don't do it type comments.

I called STL Tower to find out if it would be an issue on a Sunday to do a TnG then on to SUS. I was told "absolutely no problem - our airport is your airport". I mentioned I was concerned about push times and slower GA aircraft, and he said not to worry about it but they appreciated the call. They are all for helping pilots out.

All I can say is ....wow. These folks are outstanding.

Guess I have my answer
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I never suggested tower would be opposed, I just said I didn't see the point. However, if you...the paying student...want to go then that's reason enough. It sounded like your CFI was pushing it and that's what I don't get.

Have a fun flight!
 
Captain said:
I never suggested tower would be opposed, I just said I didn't see the point. However, if you...the paying student...want to go then that's reason enough. It sounded like your CFI was pushing it and that's what I don't get.

Have a fun flight!
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Nope CFI wasn't pushing. Totally my idea. He thought it would be good experience when I discussed it with him. His teaching for the IR is XC based. Because my kids are in Missouri, I thought it would be a good way to see them. If I'm going to SUS, why not do an approach at STL on the way if it was ok.
 
asgcpa said:
Nope CFI wasn't pushing. Totally my idea. He thought it would be good experience when I discussed it with him. His teaching for the IR is XC based. Because my kids are in Missouri, I thought it would be a good way to see them. If I'm going to SUS, why not do an approach at STL on the way if it was ok.
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Great way to combine the two. If the planes have GPS, file BACEN. If not, file over RBS. Depending on traffic, you can get a vector over ORD with a great view at 6,000.


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If you have time, fly over near CPS and ask their tower for the riverfront tour. About 1,000' MSL right up the river is a nice flight. I alway ask to fly thru the arch but they haven't let me do it yet. I'll keep trying. :)
 
I am based out of SUS. My CFII (many years ago) insisted that I demonstrate proficiency in every approach we could do. We called ahead to STL and were able to do a PAR approach.

Were you guys on IFR plans when you were told to stay clear of the STL Bravo?
 
Painter1 said:
I am based out of SUS. My CFII (many years ago) insisted that I demonstrate proficiency in every approach we could do. We called ahead to STL and were able to do a PAR approach.

Were you guys on IFR plans when you were told to stay clear of the STL Bravo?
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I don't understand as I was never told to stay out of Bravo around STL, even in VFR. They were great in that respect, and, very nice when I called them on the phone regarding my flight in a couple of weeks. And, my son who is currently a student learning at KJEF, was cleared through Bravo on his long solo XC (thank the powers that be that he had his Bravo endorsement for a student pilot). Only time I have been told to stay clear of Bravo is VFR around ORD.
 
Painter1 said:
Were you guys on IFR plans when you were told to stay clear of the STL Bravo?
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No, flying VFR into SUS or 1H0 from the south.

On an IFR flight (have only done that twice) they assign an altitude near or below the floor of the bravo.

It's particularly "puckering" when going to/from 1H0 because the path from the south takes one about 6 miles to the east of SUS, directly off the end of the runway...at 1,000' or so AGL. Head is definitely on swivel...but it is everywhere up there.
 
asgcpa said:
garyb said:
Haven't had much luck getting VFR clearance around ORD. So last time I flew VFR into STL they were great. This time they are accommodating about the future approach. ORD is far busier which explains difference in cooperation.
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Just curious were you trying to get Flight following to go under ORD Bravo along the lake shore?

I found starting FF from ORD can be a little difficult sometimes due to workload, but if I start FF early like Milwaukee from the north then get handed off to ORD it goes pretty smooth and they have done pretty good with advisories)

The only thing I noticed is if you are along the lake shore under bravo VFR with FF, they watch your last Altitude pretty closely, I was reminded harshly once for dropping 300ft even though I was never assigned an ALT (entered from previous ATC contact) My bad.
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Getting FF from ORD approach is more timing and luck than anything else. If it's busy on the frequency, your chances of FF are slim. If the frequency is dead, you have a good shot at it. Considering there are over 22 positions in the TRACON sharing airspace in some form or another, it can be very difficult to get Class B clearance. I've denied clearance not because I was busy, but because the guy working traffic where the aircraft intended to go was busy.


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I use flight following every flight and have had awesome experiences with Denver approach folks. The Colorado Springs approach folks are ok and usually helpful. The most fun I have had recently was working with the approach folks in the Dallas area. It was incredibly busy on the radio down there and those guys were really professional. I used the radio a great deal when I was in the military and that is a favorite part of flying for me. I find that if you sound like you know what you are doing and work with them, they will go out of their way to work with you. I have friends who just hate to talk to ATC and when they come flying with me, they inevitably ask why the ATC guys seem to be so helpful, getting into the bravo, etc. Well you gotta talk to them and professionally tell them what you would like to do and most likely they will say yes.

Carl
 
MyassisDragon said:
asgcpa said:
I found starting FF from ORD can be a little difficult sometimes due to workload, but if I start FF early like Milwaukee from the north then get handed off to ORD it goes pretty smooth and they have done pretty good with advisories)
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MarkZ said:
Getting FF from ORD approach is more timing and luck than anything else. I
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Minor nit. It is not ORD Approach. Although Chicago Approach sometimes thinks that is the only airport. It is CHICAGO-Approach! Identifier is C90, not ORD. ORD is O'Hare IAP. Chicago approach is not even located in Chicago nor at the O'Hare IAP. It is in Elgin, IL. While a great amount of their work is ORD associated let'e remember that they are there for more than one airport.
 
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ScottM said:
MyassisDragon said:
Minor nit. It is not ORD Approach. Although Chicago Approach sometimes thinks that is the only airport. It is CHICAGO-Approach! Identifier is C90, not ORD. ORD is O'Hare IAP. Chicago approach is not even located in Chicago nor at the O'Hare IAP. It is in Elgin, IL. While a great amount of their work is ORD associated let'e remember that they are there for more than one airport.
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Liar! There is only ORD. LOL

Maybe that's why I'm still training, and not certified there. Yet.

:goofy:
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MyassisDragon said:
asgcpa said:
Just curious were you trying to get Flight following to go under ORD Bravo along the lake shore?

I found starting FF from ORD can be a little difficult sometimes due to workload, but if I start FF early like Milwaukee from the north then get handed off to ORD it goes pretty smooth and they have done pretty good with advisories)

The only thing I noticed is if you are along the lake shore under bravo VFR with FF, they watch your last Altitude pretty closely, I was reminded harshly once for dropping 300ft even though I was never assigned an ALT (entered from previous ATC contact) My bad.
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Haven't had much of problem with FF along lake under ORD bravo. Need to review new procedures due to MDW before I try next flight. Just went into effect last month.
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timwinters said:
If you have time, fly over near CPS and ask their tower for the riverfront tour. About 1,000' MSL right up the river is a nice flight. I alway ask to fly thru the arch but they haven't let me do it yet. I'll keep trying. :)
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Tim

Really won't have time. My instructor does an aviation internet radio show and we have to be back at 17:00.
 
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