STC on Oil Filter Adaptor

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dmount76

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dmount76
Question on the procedures for keeping our Cherokee 180 with Lycoming 0-360 A2A certified and legal. It has the oil screen but not the spin on oil filter. There is a engine off of a wreck at our airport that has the spin-on adapter that we would like to bolt on so we can have the benefits of the spin on filter. Had an A&P look at it with us and he said it will fit. He mentioned having to get an STC and file a 337. The owner of the wrecked plane doesn't have log books on the wrecked plane. We are comfortable with the mechanical side of the install with the A&P's guidance, but I would appreciate some advice on what we need to do as far as paperwork with FAA and how to go about doing it. Thanks in advance.
 
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dmount76 said:
what we need to do as far as paperwork
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You'll need a letter of permission from the STC holder to use those parts on your serial number aircraft. However, it's usually more advantageous to buy a new kit as mentioned above. Some STC holders require extra "steps" to obtain permission on used parts.
 
Dmount,

It makes no difference whether the original owner has paperwork or not. The part is the part but the STC that authorizes intallation is not transferrable. You'd need to identify the manufacturer and get them to provide you a new STC authorization. Some manufacturers will do it for a reasonable fee, some will charge enough to convince you to buy a new part.
 
I bought a new oil filter adapter new/old stock for around $375 for my O-320-E-3D. That was about 2 years ago. I bought original Lycoming adapter.

Easy upgrade. Changing the filter without getting oil over everything was a learning curve. I wrap a plastic bag around the filter when removing, it seems to capture 99% of the oil.
 
If you use the lycoming part called out for in the lycoming parts manual for your engine it nothing more than a logbook entry. That part is part of the TC if it's in the manual applying to you engine. I really wish a&p's would leArn more about TC's stc'S and 337's and field approvals. There are so many that think you need a stc or 337 to put any part on an aircraft that was no on it at the factory.

Bob
 
unsafervguy said:
If you use the lycoming part called out for in the lycoming parts manual for your engine it nothing more than a logbook entry. That part is part of the TC if it's in the manual applying to you engine. I really wish a&p's would leArn more about TC's stc'S and 337's and field approvals. There are so many that think you need a stc or 337 to put any part on an aircraft that was no on it at the factory.

Bob
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Even if you have the Lycoming part, can you use it on the wrong engine application with out a field approval?
IOWs do all Lycoming engines have an alternate part number for an oil filter?

From your reference
Clean engine oil is essential to long engine life. Full-flow filter elements and full-flow spin-on assemblies are an added improvement over older methods of filtration and can be installed on any applicable engine not equipped with a filter.
 
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unsafervguy said:
If you use the lycoming part called out for in the lycoming parts manual for your engine it nothing more than a logbook entry. That part is part of the TC if it's in the manual applying to you engine. I really wish a&p's would leArn more about TC's stc'S and 337's and field approvals. There are so many that think you need a stc or 337 to put any part on an aircraft that was no on it at the factory.

Bob
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:yeahthat:
 
The whole reason for having an STC to add an oil filter, is because it does modify the oil system. (that is a basic design change)
 
unsafervguy said:
If you use the lycoming part called out for in the lycoming parts manual for your engine
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While most parts manuals (IPCs) list applicable part numbers they do not give installation authority. A part needs both to be considered part of the "engine specification." While this specification is part of the TC it is considered a separate listing. Most OEMs provide the installation requirement via a bulletin or similar document. In this particular case, Lycoming as a specific bulletin addressing the installation of engine mounted oil filters, spin-on or otherwise. But not all engines qualify per the bulletin, regardless what the IPC states.

It was my understanding the OP determined the used adapter was part of an STC. He could go the STC route, or the field approval route, which both would require a 337 as this alteration meets the definition of a major alteration. Or he could look at the Lycoming bulletin option which, as you stated, would only require a logbook entry as it would be part of the engine specification which is excluded by the definition of a major alteration.
 
Bell206 said:
While most parts manuals (IPCs) list applicable part numbers they do not give installation authority. A part needs both to be considered part of the "engine specification." While this specification is part of the TC it is considered a separate listing. Most OEMs provide the installation requirement via a bulletin or similar document. In this particular case, Lycoming as a specific bulletin addressing the installation of engine mounted oil filters, spin-on or otherwise. But not all engines qualify per the bulletin, regardless what the IPC states.

It was my understanding the OP determined the used adapter was part of an STC. He could go the STC route, or the field approval route, which both would require a 337 as this alteration meets the definition of a major alteration. Or he could look at the Lycoming bulletin option which, as you stated, would only require a logbook entry as it would be part of the engine specification which is excluded by the definition of a major alteration.
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The FAA will not issue approval to install a part that already has an STC, they are not allowed to give away intellectual property. they get sued for that.
 
Tom-D said:
The FAA will not issue approval to install a part that already has an STC,
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Not quite. The FAA can not reveal specific existing STC data to others without the consent of the STC holder. But if you obtain your own approved DER data for the same type of alteration there is nothing that will stop you.

There are a number of examples of this but can't search the database due to the shutdown. The last one I remember was action taken by the WACO Corporation. A private individual obtained is own DER approved data to install the same engine upgrade--that WACO uses on their production aircraft--to upgrade his personal Waco. The WACO Corp sued and protested to the FAA that this owner must use their STC to install. It was shot down by the FAA Chief Legal Counsel. Case closed. This individual received his own separate one time STC from the ACO to install the upgraded engine.
 
Bell206 said:
Not quite. The FAA can not reveal specific existing STC data to others without the consent of the STC holder. But if you obtain your own approved DER data for the same type of alteration there is nothing that will stop you.

There are a number of examples of this but can't search the database due to the shutdown. The last one I remember was action taken by the WACO Corporation. A private individual obtained is own DER approved data to install the same engine upgrade--that WACO uses on their production aircraft--to upgrade his personal Waco. The WACO Corp sued and protested to the FAA that this owner must use their STC to install. It was shot down by the FAA Chief Legal Counsel. Case closed. This individual received his own separate one time STC from the ACO to install the upgraded engine.
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What you described is called a "deviation to an STC" not the same as asking the FAA for approval to instal a STCed part because you don't have the STC, which is what the OP would be doing.
 
One other thing to understand is many of these old engine swaps are in public domain, and can be used by requesting approval from the FSDO on a field approval.
When I did the engine upgrade for the F-24 from a 145 to a 165 Warner all FSDO wanted was a copy of the original engineering. An easy do, it was on a CD.
 
Tom-D said:
not the same as asking the FAA for approval to instal a STCed part because you don't have the STC
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Correct. I was responding to the IP portion of your comment. However, if the OP took that STC part and reverse-engineered a copy as an owner produced part he could apply for his own field approval or STC on its own merits.
Tom-D said:
One other thing to understand is many of these old engine swaps are in public domain,
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And not just engine swaps in the public domain. There are quite a few interesting mods available. However, on the Waco example above the new Waco Corp had the only STC 300Hp upgrade which they installed on their new YMFs.
 
Bell206 said:
And not just engine swaps in the public domain. There are quite a few interesting mods available. However, on the Waco example above the new Waco Corp had the only STC 300Hp upgrade which they installed on their new YMFs.
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From What I understand the NEW YMFs do not need a STC for their engine installation, simply because they are new aircraft certified at production. unlike a production certificate, that must be IAW the authorized engineering, or be in a properly altered condition.
 
Bell206 said:
Correct. I was responding to the IP portion of your comment. However, if the OP took that STC part and reverse-engineered a copy as an owner produced part he could apply for his own field approval or STC on its own merits.
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But that is not what he is doing, He's grabbing one from a junk pile and putting it on his aircraft, to do that he needs to buy the STC paper work.
 
Tom-D said:
the NEW YMFs do not need a STC for their engine installation
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The TC for the YMF is in the public domain. They produce the YMFs under the same TC but as modified by a STC. The TCDS has some of the details. They also have an IFR version on amphibs that is pretty slick.
 
Tom-D said:
Even if you have the Lycoming part, can you use it on the wrong engine application with out a field approval?
IOWs do all Lycoming engines have an alternate part number for an oil filter?
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http://acversailles.free.fr/documen.../Engine_mounted_oil_filter_kits_SSP-885-1.pdf

As it states in that ssp, applicability, all direct drive engines not equipped with a oil filter. As usual, bell206 is right on with the legalese, but in this case, the ssp covers everything. Follow that and it's a simple log book entry. The adapters are outrageous new but they can Cle found for 150 or less used. I just got one for 125 bucks a few months ago.
 
unsafervguy said:
http://acversailles.free.fr/documen.../Engine_mounted_oil_filter_kits_SSP-885-1.pdf

As it states in that ssp, applicability, all direct drive engines not equipped with a oil filter. As usual, bell206 is right on with the legalese, but in this case, the ssp covers everything. Follow that and it's a simple log book entry. The adapters are outrageous new but they can Cle found for 150 or less used. I just got one for 125 bucks a few months ago.
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Your reference doesn't give you authority to install the adaptor mentioned in the first post.
 
unsafervguy said:
If you use the lycoming part called out for in the lycoming parts manual for your engine it nothing more than a logbook entry.
Bob
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This is not what the OP is doing.
 
JAWS said:
How do we know that? Without pictures and part numbers of what the OP is looking at, we are all guessing.
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Yer right he doesn't say which part numbers he has.
but why the mention of a STC and a 337, by his mechanic? shouldn't they know?
 
dmount76 said:
Question on the procedures for keeping our Cherokee 180 with Lycoming 0-360 A2A certified and legal.
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Is this the correct engine model for the aircraft? What is the aircraft serial number?

To decipher this via the internet and without knowing exactly the part numbers being discussed is difficult.
 
Tom-D said:
Yer right he doesn't say which part numbers he has.
but why the mention of a STC and a 337, by his mechanic? shouldn't they know?
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because, as you have even posted many times, to many a&p's have no clue when and STC and or a 337 is required. too many think, incorrectly, that if a part was not installed on the plane at the factory then it requires an stc or 337 to install it. if it is an after market part yes, if its a lycoming part then no nothing need except a logbook entry.
 
unsafervguy said:
because, as you have even posted many times, to many a&p's have no clue when and STC and or a 337 is required. too many think, incorrectly, that if a part was not installed on the plane at the factory then it requires an stc or 337 to install it. if it is an after market part yes, if its a lycoming part then no nothing need except a logbook entry.
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I see nothing new here ?
 
Hey all. Want to thank you for the useful information. When we took the SSP from Lycoming to our A&P he agreed that just a log book entry was all that was necessary since the part numbers matched and our engine was listed.
SSP-885-2 is specifically approved by FAA for installing a spin on oil filter adapter.

Thanks again for the assistance.
 
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