Inadequately.
Yep, sure could. You could very reasonably make that argument.
The difference between you and I is that I am objective and consistent in my reasoning.
Tools
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,049
- Display Name
Display name:
Tools
Karlene Petit story…
Delta doc bipolar.
Her doc said no.
Contract allowed for those two docs to agree on an independent third…
THAT doc said no, that prevailed. Back to flying. Took about 18 months and a lot of money out of pocket.
FAA should perhaps use something similar?
Delta doc bipolar.
Her doc said no.
Contract allowed for those two docs to agree on an independent third…
THAT doc said no, that prevailed. Back to flying. Took about 18 months and a lot of money out of pocket.
FAA should perhaps use something similar?
Try and keep up. My solution is simple precisely because the brain isn't.
Private Pilot Allegedly Dies by Suicide in an Airplane
A private pilot allegedly stole an airplane from ATP Flight School in Addison and used it to commit suicide.
www.flyingmag.com
Sounds like we have another pilot in a mental health crisis.
1) It shouldn't be difficult to run the numbers to determine the prevalence of "Suicide by GenAv" as compared to suicide in the general population. One might think that, with all this mental health screening the FAA does, any such incident would be -- inconceivable. If not, then one might come to the conclusion that its all just part of a big hazing ritual, with little to no basis in science, and no apparent effect on outcomes.Private Pilot Allegedly Dies by Suicide in an Airplane
A private pilot allegedly stole an airplane from ATP Flight School in Addison and used it to commit suicide.
Sounds like we have another pilot in a mental health crisis.
2) Moreover, it is specifically suicide in flight, over populated areas, that is the risk to be concerned about. Human considerations aside, if a pilot wants to end it all and in so doing, flies over remote wooded mountain terrain and takes out a couple of pine trees and some cute furry wildlife; or flies out over blue water with the wing leveler on and insufficient endurance to reach the next continent; tragic though these may be, they sort of demonstrate that, despite the pilot's diminished mental state, they took pains to limit collateral damage to lives on the ground. Again, that's the risk that all these precautions are supposed to be guarding against.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
What mental health screening does the FAA do that would make such incidents inconceivable?1) It shouldn't be difficult to run the numbers to determine the prevalence of "Suicide by GenAv" as compared to suicide in the general population. One might think that, with all this mental health screening the FAA does, any such incident would be -- inconceivable. If not, then one might come to the conclusion that its all just part of a big hazing ritual, with little to no basis in science, and no apparent effect on outcomes.
We should really look at suicide by people who hold a medical certificate vs the general population. I bet not every case is carried out in a plane, which will skew the numbers. To your point number 2, as you are pointing out, suicidal does not equal homicidal. I suggest everyone watch this video with an open mind1) It shouldn't be difficult to run the numbers to determine the prevalence of "Suicide by GenAv" as compared to suicide in the general population. One might think that, with all this mental health screening the FAA does, any such incident would be -- inconceivable. If not, then one might come to the conclusion that its all just part of a big hazing ritual, with little to no basis in science, and no apparent effect on outcomes.
2) Moreover, it is specifically suicide in flight, over populated areas, that is the risk to be concerned about. Human considerations aside, if a pilot wants to end it all and in so doing, flies over remote wooded mountain terrain and takes out a couple of pine trees and some cute furry wildlife; or flies out over blue water with the wing leveler on and insufficient endurance to reach the next continent; tragic though these may be, they sort of demonstrate that, despite the pilot's diminished mental state, they took pains to limit collateral damage to lives on the ground. Again, that's the risk that all these precautions are supposed to be guarding against.
But its the events carried out in or on planes that are the jurisdiction of Ms. Diana Moon Glampers -- her video is on page 1 of this thread. If someone who happens to hold a pilots' certificate offs themselves while on terra firma, it simply isn't much of the FAA's business.
Another aspect of this is, I am coming at it from the angle of GenAv and private pilots. When talking about ATPs flying hundreds of people at a time, maybe there is an argument to be made. (I haven't watched the particular video you linked, but I'm familiar with reports of the incident). But the hypothetical guy who gets denied his Class III medical that he needs to qualify for BasicMed, and is thus barred from flying a 2,500 lb Cessna that stalls at 60 MPH, proceeds to get into his 6,000 lb SUV to drive off at 75 MPH and stew about it.
No one bats an eyelash.
Plus, we have vivid cases of "worst case scenarios" with light piston singles -- one accidental (Cory Lidle's Cirrus in Manhattan); one suicidal (Teen crashed a stolen 172 into a Tampa office building shortly after 9/11). In both cases, the plane simply bounced off the building. The wreckage landed at the foot of the respective building with damage not much worse than an average car crash.
Part of the dilemma is that the medical class and the pilot certificate are more about determining whether and how a pilot can be paid, not in determining the type of aircraft and the number of passengers. A pilot with a PPL and a 3rd class and sufficient funds can get rated to fly an airliner (Travolta and his 707, for example) and load it up with people; he just can't do it for money.
Technically you are probably correct and I am sure this is the answer the FAA would give. in actuality, if someone holds a valid medical they should not be suicidal, so a suicide regardless of the means should be counted as a strike against their system.
Fair point. The FAA's threshold is "suicidal ideation," not "airborne sucidal ideation." But things change, and a young pilot can go 5 years between medical exams. Lots of time for someone to become suicidal without applying for a fresh medical.
Aren’t they required to notify the FAA of any change in health between medicals?
I only bring this point up because the instances of suicide by pilot are very low, I think it was 36 in 52 years. I could see the FAA pointing to this figure and saying the suicide rate among the general population is much higher, our system works.
Maybe flying an aircraft above a certain size and passenger capacity should require a 2nd-class medical.
Well, the system is already tiered. Big planes require a class 3. Smaller planes require only Basic Med, and smaller than that (LSA) a driver’s license, and smaller still (ultralight) nothing.
Last edited:
Well you need a class 3 from after 2006 to get basic med.
Yes, which becomes a little dumber every year....
A suggestion was made that suicidal pilots seldom harm others when small planes are used. Later in the discussion, you pointed out that pilots with third-class medicals can qualify to fly large planes. Since new pilots are required to get at least a third-class medical before they are eligible for BasicMed, this problem creates an unnecessary barrier to entry for some people, even if they have no desire nor need to fly large airplanes. And for such people, the BasicMed restriction from flying in most foreign countries has no bearing on preventing suicidal flights.
As for sport pilot, that has restrictions that go well beyond the size of the airplane.
In general, I'm opposed to restrictions and mandated expenses that are excessive for the purported purpose. That's why I'm suggesting that our tiered system needs some adjustment between a couple of the tiers.
I agree. The one-time 3rd class prior to Basic was 30 pieces of silver to a congress-critter to get her support for the bill. It's pretty much useless.