State of GA

$65 for an instructor is a lot in my area.

I train in the D.C. area and the most you see is $50 an hour.

I personally pay $105 an hour for a Cherokee 140 (block rate) and $35 an hour for instruction. I'm about to take my check ride this week. All in (not including the headset I bought as that's not really a training cost and I could of continued to borrow one for free), I'll of gotten it done in 43 hours counting the check ride for around $6600. That includes ground school, the pilot kit, and checkride/written fees.

If there were more opportunities like I've had to get it done under 7k, I think you might see more people do it. 11-15k? That's a daunting number to the vast majority of the country.
 
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Dav8or said:
Anywhere along either coast of the country is pricey. In the middle of the country it is more affordable. Funny thing is, the guys in the middle of the country that have such low prices, seem to think their prices are standard everywhere.
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I've found the opposite.

Just about every school I checked out around D.C. had pricing that would have you under or around 7k if you finish under 45 hours. Tons of $95 an hour 152s and $50/hr and under for instruction.

But before I moved I checked out prices in the Jackson, MS area (there aren't very many options). $145+ for a basic 172, $75 an hour for instruction. The rates were large. I chalked it up to lack of competition.
 
Bonchie said:
I've found the opposite.

Just about every school I checked out around D.C. had pricing that would have you under or around 7k if you finish under 45 hours. Tons of $95 an hour 152s and $50/hr and under for instruction.

But before I moved I checked out prices in the Jackson, MS area (there aren't very many options). $145+ for a basic 172, $75 an hour for instruction. The rates were large. I chalked it up to lack of competition.
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It could be that D.C. has loads of people wanting to fly I guess. Competition does drive the prices down. The point I was trying to make mostly is that the prices are what they are where ever one lives. You should train close to home IMO. So when someone posts that it's $75 an hour for an instructor in their area, it's pointless when somebody 1000 miles away says, "That's ridiculous! It's only $45 an hour here!"

Having said that, it is wise to shop around in your own area. I recently needed a BFR, so I called up my old flying club in Oakland. They hooked me up with an instructor and all was well... until he told me his rates. He wanted $60 an hour and even here, that's on the high side. I already knew I could get this done way cheaper, so I told him straight out that was too much for me. A day or two later, I got a call from the flying club again and this time it was a new instructor that quoted $45 an hour. That was more like it. Done deal.
 
I've sometimes run into the occasional guy who tells me that he wants to learn to fly. And then his wife says, "No way! You'll just go and get killed and leave me and the kids to fend for ourselves! Forget it!"

Risk aversion. A natural outcome of raising bubble-wrap kids who turn into risk-averse adults, and media that breathlessly report every little airplane accident as if all little airplanes are crashing constantly. And the guys who kill themselves on motorcycles or quads get a tiny little mention in the papers, if anything.

Dan
 
Dan Thomas said:
I've sometimes run into the occasional guy who tells me that he wants to learn to fly. And then his wife says, "No way! You'll just go and get killed and leave me and the kids to fend for ourselves! Forget it!"

Risk aversion. A natural outcome of raising bubble-wrap kids who turn into risk-averse adults, and media that breathlessly report every little airplane accident as if all little airplanes are crashing constantly. And the guys who kill themselves on motorcycles or quads get a tiny little mention in the papers, if anything.

Dan
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That's why my cousin never learned to fly. Wife shut him down.
 
Bonchie said:
That's why my cousin never learned to fly. Wife shut him down.
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I can't imagine that. I can't think of any situation why my better half would turn down a potential hobby of mine. She is 100% supportive, as I am of her. She often joins me in what I do.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I can't imagine that. I can't think of any situation why my better half would turn down a potential hobby of mine. She is 100% supportive, as I am of her. She often joins me in what I do.
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Because of irrational fear.
 
Guy I was dating at the time didn't approve of me taking flying lessons. I had the feeling that it was more because I wasn't paying enough attention to school and the major we were in rather than a safety issue. Long story short, I stopped dating him, but he went on to become pretty prominent in the field while I did nothing. :dunno:
 
docmirror said:
If there ever was a teen age kid around my small field looking for work, I'd pay him $100 for a decent wash job. We just don't have any kids who want that kind of outdoor, real hands on work. They are all inside getting blisters from Xbox.



Oh, and when I used to watch Tom & Jerry, or Foghorn Leghorn, I didn't have to pay directly for any of the content. Cap'n Crunch, and Snickers etc paid for my content.



Yeah, it's expensive, but it's not out of the realm for a hungry kid to do it. The other problem is the self-fulfilling prophesy. There are no kids at the airport to wash planes, cause there are fewer planes and pilots willing to have their plane washed. The rural airport is no longer a destination, or even a possible stop on the way to Walmart nowadays.



Things change, we get more 'advanced' I guess. If I had a teen, who needed some cash I'd have him make up a sign on Sat and go down to the airport, see if he can get some folks interested. Sigh - I'm guessing he'd sit there for 3-4 hours waiting for someone to show up and have a dirty plane to wash.
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Love the "content" comment! So true!

My co-owner heard some ladies who were fundraising to fly in the Air Race Challenge were going to do an airplane wash fundraiser at KFTG recently, so our bird is clean.

Some people still show initiative.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I've sometimes run into the occasional guy who tells me that he wants to learn to fly. And then his wife says, "No way! You'll just go and get killed and leave me and the kids to fend for ourselves! Forget it!"

Risk aversion. A natural outcome of raising bubble-wrap kids who turn into risk-averse adults, and media that breathlessly report every little airplane accident as if all little airplanes are crashing constantly. And the guys who kill themselves on motorcycles or quads get a tiny little mention in the papers, if anything.
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Take out a $2M life insurance policy that doesn't exclude aviation and she'll beg him to go as often as he likes. Ha. ;)
 
Everskyward said:
Guy I was dating at the time didn't approve of me taking flying lessons. I had the feeling that it was more because I wasn't paying enough attention to school and the major we were in rather than a safety issue. Long story short, I stopped dating him, but he went on to become pretty prominent in the field while I did nothing. :dunno:
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I would not call operating jets into and out of some of the mountain airports you've operated out of, "nothing". :)
 
denverpilot said:
I would not call operating jets into and out of some of the mountain airports you've operated out of, "nothing". :)
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You can look at my yard and tell that I did "nothing" as a landscape architect (which was my major). :redface:
 
Warning <middle aged man rant>

I think there is definitely an 'it' factor to people who want to learn how to fly. People who love it, and are cool calm and collected even when things get sideways in the air.

Definitely alpha types fit the mold if you ask me, but I'm no shrink.

I grew up and we did a lot of jumping on trampolines, outside sports, and generally action sports like skiing, motorcycles, and swimming/diving. These things gave me inner ear balance and inertial training. I can do back flips on a trampoline or off a diving board still. Heck, I used to do gainers if anyone remembers what those are. Those were the days. :rolleyes:

It's just an example of a generation of kids who were told "get out of the house and go play" and a generation being told "do you want some munchies while you're playing Halo?"

imho.

<rant done>
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
I can't imagine that. I can't think of any situation why my better half would turn down a potential hobby of mine. She is 100% supportive, as I am of her. She often joins me in what I do.
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Ditto,

If I wanted to bungee jump off of a bridge I would tell my wife. She would simply say that sounds like fun lets do it together!

I'm lucky to have her!
 
txflyer said:
Warning <middle aged man rant>



I think there is definitely an 'it' factor to people who want to learn how to fly. People who love it, and are cool calm and collected even when things get sideways in the air.



Definitely alpha types fit the mold if you ask me, but I'm no shrink.



I grew up and we did a lot of jumping on trampolines, outside sports, and generally action sports like skiing, motorcycles, and swimming/diving. These things gave me inner ear balance and inertial training. I can do back flips on a trampoline or off a diving board still. Heck, I used to do gainers if anyone remembers what those are. Those were the days. :rolleyes:



It's just an example of a generation of kids who were told "get out of the house and go play" and a generation being told "do you want some munchies while you're playing Halo?"



imho.



<rant done>
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For an alternative viewpoint, I'm well known as a complete klutz.

I fall UP my own stairs at least once a year. I'm no athlete but I can hit a softball most of the time. I fell into my parent's swimming pool attempting to retrieve the vacuum device on Christmas Day. The family still laughs about that one.

But I can fly pretty well and drive pretty well and shoot pretty well and even ski pretty well ... and think my way through "why not" or know enough to find a good instructor to help figure it out.

None of it came easy for me kinesthetically.

So it's not about natural athletic ability, although it probably doesn't hurt. But most people don't need cat-like reflexes and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound to fly modern light aircraft.

The cool, calm, and collected part... Maybe. More so something Henning has mentioned before. Don't freeze. Doing nothing is *almost always* the wrong thing to do when operating machinery and things are going pear-shaped. Continuous action and reaction are required.

Nothing like attempting to land a taildragger I'm a crosswind to hammer that one home. I really wish I had finished that endorsement (ran out of money back then. No good excuse today, other than time, really...) and it's definitely on my bucket list.
 
I don't think it's that accurate to paint the last few generations as lazy, video gamers with sausage fingers who are risk averse. I mean, yeah video games are part of the culture now and safety is a bigger concern to the public, but extreme sports and kids doing crazy stuff has only become more popular the last 20 years.

We are overcomplicating this. It's really just about the money in 95% of cases.
 
Bonchie said:
I don't think it's that accurate to paint the last few generations as lazy, video gamers with sausage fingers who are risk averse. I mean, yeah video games are part of the culture now and safety is a bigger concern to the public, but extreme sports and kids doing crazy stuff has only become more popular the last 20 years.



We are overcomplicating this. It's really just about the money in 95% of cases.
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Most of the really extreme sports are done by folks with serious time put in and corporate sponsorship.

The wanna-bees post YouTube videos of themselves busting their nuts on railings on their skateboards. When they're 30.
 
denverpilot said:
For an alternative viewpoint, I'm well known as a complete klutz.

I fall UP my own stairs at least once a year. I'm no athlete but I can hit a softball most of the time. I fell into my parent's swimming pool attempting to retrieve the vacuum device on Christmas Day. The family still laughs about that one.

But I can fly pretty well and drive pretty well and shoot pretty well and even ski pretty well ... and think my way through "why not" or know enough to find a good instructor to help figure it out.

None of it came easy for me kinesthetically.

So it's not about natural athletic ability, although it probably doesn't hurt. But most people don't need cat-like reflexes and the ability to leap tall buildings in a single bound to fly modern light aircraft.

The cool, calm, and collected part... Maybe. More so something Henning has mentioned before. Don't freeze. Doing nothing is *almost always* the wrong thing to do when operating machinery and things are going pear-shaped. Continuous action and reaction are required.

Nothing like attempting to land a taildragger I'm a crosswind to hammer that one home. I really wish I had finished that endorsement (ran out of money back then. No good excuse today, other than time, really...) and it's definitely on my bucket list.
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Good point about the freezing up. A good pilot is the type of person who will not freeze, or a person who is not afraid of a fight in my words.

When things go sideways, athletes or fighter types go into hyper-drive. They go all out to fight the problem to the very end. Using adrenaline and training or whatever, they don't give up. I guess I could have simplified it and have just said "pilot's are not quitters." :redface:

Get that tailwheel endorsement. You'll love it.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I always wanted to learn how to fly, since I was a kid, I believe GA is here to stay but not as popular as the 80's unless major changes are made. It would be interesting to see how GA is doing in other countries.
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To answer your question, GA is agonizing here...

Exorbitant costs ( $ 250 for a badly maintained, 40 years old 172...) certainly contribute to this situation.

There are new airspace restrictions almost every month, new TFR's almost every week...

Business is bad and FBO's are closing down...the ones that haven't are almost totally deserted...

Getting a license in Europe or in Israel will cost you around $ 30,000 ! ( not joking...)

To get a PPL, you also need to take 8 different theory exams and 2 separate practical exams....

I bet you feel pretty lucky after reading this :)
 
Dan Thomas said:
I've sometimes run into the occasional guy who tells me that he wants to learn to fly. And then his wife says, "No way! You'll just go and get killed and leave me and the kids to fend for ourselves! Forget it!"
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The problem with that thinking is he could walk into the street and get hit by a bus and get the same result, the only problem is he didn't get a chance to do what he had a desire to do.
 
txflyer said:
My son and I call it "the vagination of America"

That's what's killing GA. We're not raising men anymore, we're raising obedient little metro-sexual surf's who grow up to be ward's of the State or some masculine woman's man-*****.
For some reason I can't stop laughing at this :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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Armageddon Aviator said:
To answer your question, GA is agonizing here...

Exorbitant costs ( $ 250 for a badly maintained, 40 years old 172...) certainly contribute to this situation.

There are new airspace restrictions almost every month, new TFR's almost every week...

Business is bad and FBO's are closing down...the ones that haven't are almost totally deserted...

Getting a license in Europe or in Israel will cost you around $ 30,000 ! ( not joking...)

To get a PPL, you also need to take 8 different theory exams and 2 separate practical exams....

I bet you feel pretty lucky after reading this :)
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WOW! That is expensive.

I guess that is why people from other countries come to the United States to learn how to fly.
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
To answer your question, GA is agonizing here...

Exorbitant costs ( $ 250 for a badly maintained, 40 years old 172...) certainly contribute to this situation.

There are new airspace restrictions almost every month, new TFR's almost every week...

Business is bad and FBO's are closing down...the ones that haven't are almost totally deserted...

Getting a license in Europe or in Israel will cost you around $ 30,000 ! ( not joking...)

To get a PPL, you also need to take 8 different theory exams and 2 separate practical exams....

I bet you feel pretty lucky after reading this :)
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So are there enough Israelis with an FAA license that it would make sense to have an N- tail plane?
 
FloridaPilot said:
txflyer said:
My son and I call it "the vagination of America"

That's what's killing GA. We're not raising men anymore, we're raising obedient little metro-sexual surf's who grow up to be ward's of the State or some masculine woman's man-*****.
For some reason I can't stop laughing at this :rofl::rofl::rofl:
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It's true!

I've never met so many cuckolded hen-pecked he-******* like we're growing around these parts lately.

I try to keep mine happy, but if the fish are bitin'.... ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dcrjuPSs80&feature=kp
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I did a little snooping around and found a flight school in the area that has a 152 for $80 per hour and instructors for $45, at an airport that's about 40 miles from my house. If there were no traffic I think you could make it there in about an hour, if you were going after work it could take 90 minutes if nothing too awful was going on, traffic wise. Depending on where in the (metro Atlanta) area you lived, that could be an option.

There was a place at a somewhat closer airport that had an LSA, but according to their web site one of the students bent it badly and they're not sure when it will be airworthy again. It also seems like most of the airports farther out from the city no longer offer flight instruction. The larger school at the nearest airport to my house (KRYY) apparently used to have locations at two other local airports but have closed them down over the last few years.
 
FormerHangie said:
I did a little snooping around and found a flight school in the area that has a 152 for $80 per hour and instructors for $45, at an airport that's about 40 miles from my house. If there were no traffic I think you could make it there in about an hour, if you were going after work it could take 90 minutes if nothing too awful was going on, traffic wise. Depending on where in the (metro Atlanta) area you lived, that could be an option.

There was a place at a somewhat closer airport that had an LSA, but according to their web site one of the students bent it badly and they're not sure when it will be airworthy again. It also seems like most of the airports farther out from the city no longer offer flight instruction. The larger school at the nearest airport to my house (KRYY) apparently used to have locations at two other local airports but have closed them down over the last few years.
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That sounds like KLZU. I did my single and multi commercial rides there.

I'm not impressed by any of the schools at the field. The one I went to had a nice Arrow for $145 an hour. It's down for an engine overhaul.. which will never happen. I loved taking that thing out.
 
The flight school that I trained at seems to be doing quite well. They are not the absolute cheapest option, but they do provide good value. They have 3 Skycatchers that rent for $99/hr and 3 172's at $135 for steam gauges and $145 for G1000. They also have an Arrow, an SR 20 and an American Champion Scout on floats. While other schools in the area shut down, these guys (Rainier Flight Service) keep their books full and keep buying more planes and hiring CFI's. One thing that they do well (in addition to flight training) is social media, and I think that has helped them rise above the rest. If you go searching for a flight school on Facebook or Yelp, you will find them easily. And I always enjoyed hanging out there. It's a fun place to learn to fly! I think a lot of schools could take a lesson or two from a place like RFS.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Benbrook is a suburb of Fort Worth, SW of downtown and nice digs.

As far as finding available CFI's, the OP isn't kicking over the correct rocks. There a lots of good CFI's in the region. He just needs to reach out to us locals and ask.

I'm drawing a blank for the name of the school/instructor at Spinks (KFWS) but I keep hearing of a really good one there.

Then there is the guy in Grandbury that Jesse the Hulk did his PPL ride.

Aviator Air at KGPM has a good program.

MarcAir at 52F is a good school.

Brandon Ayers at Gainesville keeps getting mentioned with positive reviews.

Plenty of good supply if you just know where to look.
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I'm actually at Huffman Aviation at Spinks, if that's who you're thinking. I like the school a great deal, actually. He's got 5 instructors total, and I've flown with three of them and really liked every one. They foster and encourage my ridiculous need to understand every minute detail of what I'm doing and why. But they are so slammed, that getting any time with them has been a bear.

Also, I did the math around here for getting the PPL at a few places around here in the DFW Metroplex. Now, I'm a bit of a bucket butt at 6'1" and 250lbs, so the little 159/152s weren't going to cut it for me and anyone else. But any way I cut it, it was going to be in the $10k range. Much like others have said. I'm wondering if insurance rates play into any of these insane rental costs, too?
 
GA is dead. Sell your airplanes to me for $1 and get out while the gettin's good! ;)
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
That sounds like KLZU. I did my single and multi commercial rides there.

I'm not impressed by any of the schools at the field. The one I went to had a nice Arrow for $145 an hour. It's down for an engine overhaul.. which will never happen. I loved taking that thing out.
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Yes, that's it. I did my private there back in the 80's. Actually I did some training there and some at BNA. Oddly, both schools used Grummans, and I've had a soft spot for them ever since.
 
txflyer said:
My son and I call it "the vagination of America"

That's what's killing GA. We're not raising men anymore, we're raising obedient little metro-sexual surf's who grow up to be ward's of the State or some masculine woman's man-*****.

Even if they grow up and get money, flying would interfere with their social networking or Mr. Mom time ... :rolleyes:
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There is more truth in this than you may even realize. It is a cultural shift for sure. Thank education, the media, and other segments of society that are so risk adverse that life itself may be too dangerous to even live anymore.

Instead of passing the grease to pack the bearings, they're passing the moisturizer to avoid the shock, and embarrasment of dry skin, and wrinkles! :hairraise:
 
txflyer said:
My son and I call it "the vagination of America"

That's what's killing GA. We're not raising men anymore, we're raising obedient little metro-sexual surf's who grow up to be ward's of the State or some masculine woman's man-*****.

Even if they grow up and get money, flying would interfere with their social networking or Mr. Mom time ... :rolleyes:
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Oh man, that is so true. And unfortunately it started happening a while back so we have way too many of these she-men who sit down to pee.

:mad:
 
Anthony said:
There is more truth in this than you may even realize. It is a cultural shift for sure. Thank education, the media, and other segments of society that are so risk adverse that life itself may be too dangerous to even live anymore.

Instead of passing the grease to pack the bearings, they're passing the moisturizer to avoid the shock, and embarrasment of dry skin, and wrinkles! :hairraise:
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vince said:
Oh man, that is so true. And unfortunately it started happening a while back so we have way too many of these she-men who sit down to pee.

:mad:
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Alright!

Two more prospective members for the M.A.N. club.

MEN AGAINST NAGS!

:D
 
Go tell it on the mountain brother!

We are men. We have no equal. We are the apex predators of this planet and from God almighty's own hand we rule terra firma supreme.

Women should bow at our feet and beg we not snap their scrawny necks with our bare hands. Children should ask for our audience and dogs should cower in our presence. MEN RULE!
 
Well guys, hate to break it to you, but that flight school over here in Renton that I speak so highly of currently has about 1/4 to 1/3 female students. Not sure how they managed that, but they have marketed to youth and young adults and have made their flight school a pretty cool place. If I wasn't married (and 25 years younger) it would actually be a really great place to meet women ;)
 
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