jesse
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The house was built in 1989.
I'll be going for that with the initial offer.
Starting to look at houses...carpet questions
- Thread starter jesse
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gismo
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You might be able to make it a condition of the sale, i.e. that some professional checks under the carpets and if the urine has penetrated to the subfloor, the seller pays to have the affected areas of flooring replaced.
From what I've seen, if a dog was allowed to repeatedly use an area for urinating, it will get through to the subfloor unless it was cleaned up carefully EACH time.
Dave Siciliano
Final Approach
You've gotten some great advise. I think John among others is pretty much on. Do make it a condition of the purchase. It can be difficult to get the the cause of some smells.
I wouldn't let the seller fix something like this unless I had the inspection done by someone I trusted; had him detail the scope of work and supervise it. I've seen folks agree on a contractor, but even with that, your inspector or you need to supervise.
The seller's objective is to fix it cheaply and get out. Your objective is completely different and you have all the risk if it's not done correctly. I'd rather have the inspection done, agree with the seller on a discount and have the work done myself. I'd closely watch what was being done and that it was in fact done. Unfortunately, I spend a lot of my day supervising contractors and I haven't found one that does the same quality of work when I'm closely supervising as when no one is watching.
This isn't an uncommon problem. Your realtor, if you have one, should be helping, but they are not construction experts by a long shot. They do have a lot of information and good contacts which could be especially valuable if you don't have those contacts in that area. A top-notch inspector is essential. I've used one here that is very conscientious and is a PE. Don't let folks talk you into doing things the easy way; have it fixed correctly--a lot like how you would want work done on your airplane.
Hope it works out well. Looking forward to pics when y'all find your nest!
Best,
Dave
I wouldn't let the seller fix something like this unless I had the inspection done by someone I trusted; had him detail the scope of work and supervise it. I've seen folks agree on a contractor, but even with that, your inspector or you need to supervise.
The seller's objective is to fix it cheaply and get out. Your objective is completely different and you have all the risk if it's not done correctly. I'd rather have the inspection done, agree with the seller on a discount and have the work done myself. I'd closely watch what was being done and that it was in fact done. Unfortunately, I spend a lot of my day supervising contractors and I haven't found one that does the same quality of work when I'm closely supervising as when no one is watching.
This isn't an uncommon problem. Your realtor, if you have one, should be helping, but they are not construction experts by a long shot. They do have a lot of information and good contacts which could be especially valuable if you don't have those contacts in that area. A top-notch inspector is essential. I've used one here that is very conscientious and is a PE. Don't let folks talk you into doing things the easy way; have it fixed correctly--a lot like how you would want work done on your airplane.
Hope it works out well. Looking forward to pics when y'all find your nest!
Best,
Dave
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wabower
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Geico266
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Jesse, No need to replace the sub floor if it is urine stained.
1. Remove old carpet & pad.
2. Identify stains that are pet urine with the "ol smell test", and they still look kind wet.
3. Get yourself a 3M disposable canister respirator for $20 (NOT the mask kind) (I have one if you need it.)
4. Add 1/2 gallon of bleach to 2 gallons of water (approx) to a graden sprayer.
5. Liberally spray the wood where you see stains. The urine bacteria (this is what causes the oder) will begin to boil and foam.
6. Let dry and repeat until it no longer foams in the stained areas.
7. After it has throughly dried (running a dehumidifier and fans, you can borrow mine) use oil based deck (floor) paint and seal the areas with 2 coats.
8. Add carpet and pad as needed (I can get you discounts)
9. Propose to Tristan.
Good as new! Just ask me how I know this!
1. Remove old carpet & pad.
2. Identify stains that are pet urine with the "ol smell test", and they still look kind wet.
3. Get yourself a 3M disposable canister respirator for $20 (NOT the mask kind) (I have one if you need it.)
4. Add 1/2 gallon of bleach to 2 gallons of water (approx) to a graden sprayer.
5. Liberally spray the wood where you see stains. The urine bacteria (this is what causes the oder) will begin to boil and foam.
6. Let dry and repeat until it no longer foams in the stained areas.
7. After it has throughly dried (running a dehumidifier and fans, you can borrow mine) use oil based deck (floor) paint and seal the areas with 2 coats.
8. Add carpet and pad as needed (I can get you discounts)
9. Propose to Tristan.
Good as new! Just ask me how I know this!
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Ted
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Why people put things up for sale doesn't necessarily have much to do with the condition of the item, more with whether or not the owner can afford to keep it. A lot of times it'll be a "need" to sell, not a "want" to sell. Alternately, they might have gotten a better house. So, I wouldn't be too concerned with that.
Jesse, you're right to be overly paranoid. It's a big purchase.
ScottM
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Just make sure the house is structurally ok and the rest can be dealt with. Smells are easy to deal with. Get a good home inspector.
Trapper John
Ejection Handle Pulled
Anyone with even a whit of common sense is going to try to present their property for sale in a positive light, and any beginner rezzie realtor will be quick to point that out. Not cleaning up the dog pee is just like trying to sell a plane with belly stains, smashed bugs and Cheeto crumbs on the seats.
How something looks on the surface says something about the potential condition below the surface, hence my suggestion to look beyond just the pee problem.
Trapper John
gismo
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When I was shopping for my first house I was seriously considering one that had recently come on the market. It was relatively new and appeared to be in good general condition but there were some awful stains on a carpeted stairway and someone had punched holes in a few interior doors and walls. All of these issues could have been addressed by the seller and the fact that they didn't kinda turned me off. I did not end up buying that house.
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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Which makes the subfloor plywood - no big loss if you have to replace it.
I've never bought a house that didn't have SOMETHING wrong with it.
Example - somewhere I have a picture of my hand sticking up through the floor where the refrigerator goes (they had an ice maker that leaked and the floor under it was rotten).
wsuffa
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It would make me wonder about what else they'd done to the place.
On the other hand, for the right price...
BTW: Jesse, don't worry too much about getting rid of the dog smell. It won't be long before your cat has christened the place with it's own particular odor...
dmccormack
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BTW: Jesse, don't worry too much about getting rid of the dog smell. It won't be long before your cat has christened the place with it's own particular odor...
It really depends on whether the cat is a neutered male or not.
If it is not neutered, prepare for a stench that will ruin a house.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
BTW: Jesse, don't worry too much about getting rid of the dog smell. It won't be long before your cat has christened the place with it's own particular odor...
It is not a male -- and I am not one to let an animal destroy a house. I can't stand any sort of pet smell.
dmccormack
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Then you'll be fine and won't damage the resale value of whatever you happen to purchase.
Spayed/neutered cats are pretty easy to care for, as long as you clean the litter box!
Tomcats -- well, that's a completely different animal.
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Jesse-
http://orion.lancaster.ne.gov/Appraisal/PublicAccess/
gives some idea of what the county assessor thinks of the construction of the house (in addition to the taxes). They use terms such as good, fair, poor.
As for the original issue- try to get an estimate of what it would cost to fix the problem and knock that amount off the price. As others have mentioned, they should have cleaned it up before putting the house on the market, or the seller should priced the property significantly lower than similar properties given the location, etc.
http://orion.lancaster.ne.gov/Appraisal/PublicAccess/
gives some idea of what the county assessor thinks of the construction of the house (in addition to the taxes). They use terms such as good, fair, poor.
As for the original issue- try to get an estimate of what it would cost to fix the problem and knock that amount off the price. As others have mentioned, they should have cleaned it up before putting the house on the market, or the seller should priced the property significantly lower than similar properties given the location, etc.
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kmead
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In our old farm house it was a real mess. The second floor had no less than 3 layers of carpet (really). The first floor had one layer but heavy burns around the free standing fireplace. The old owners were serious horse people, the horses lived better than they did. We ripped the carpet and fireplace out and hauled them to the dump.
We now have three levels of finished wood floors and wool throw rugs. wood floors are much easier to keep up particularly with a dog and two cats. I haul the area rugs out to the airport for a wash once every 2 years.
Kevin
We now have three levels of finished wood floors and wool throw rugs. wood floors are much easier to keep up particularly with a dog and two cats. I haul the area rugs out to the airport for a wash once every 2 years.
Kevin
Trapper John
Ejection Handle Pulled
Good advice. Also, if it shows history of sales price, that's useful info.
Also, since this is a 20 year old house, it would be useful to get a handle on the age of the furnace/AC, the roof, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with a 20 year old house, just that major equipment, roofing, windows, etc. go bad at around the 20 year mark. Need to take that into account in the offer, if it gets to that point.
Trapper John
Geico266
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That is a bummer. See if they will take yours as a back up offer so you are next in line. Never get emotionally attached to a house, there will be more deals. Use this as a learning experience if you don't get it.
There are some great deals in Lincoln right now, I just bought a fixer upper house near 67th & Leighton for $29K, and no pee carpets!
That was the other thing. I said, "Make an offer." before we left the front porch. I heard that the neighbor was about to make one.
wby0nder
Cleared for Takeoff
Jesse,
Dog pee or cat pee? BIG DIFFERENCE!
Cat pee smell can't be gotten out. Run, do not walk to the next available house.
Dog pee? No big deal. Get rid of the carpet, clean and seal, new carpet.
Dog pee or cat pee? BIG DIFFERENCE!
Cat pee smell can't be gotten out. Run, do not walk to the next available house.
Dog pee? No big deal. Get rid of the carpet, clean and seal, new carpet.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Sorry you missed out. As you know, you've got to approach it dispassionately and without emotion. There are other houses. The whole art of selling real estate is to connect with your emotions and make you want the property. And the art of buying is to keep your emotions out of it. I've fired more than one agent.
If you don't get it, put it aside and move on to the next one.
(I''ve bought 6 houses and some mountain property... and counting)
flyingcheesehead
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Larryo
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Jesse,
I'm in the house business and run across this often, and yes, at times you will have to replace the floor boards....but its not a real major issue. I've done it a few times..... However, if you have ANY doubt, it's way easier to replace some plywood than to pull the carpet up again. And YES pets, can easily damage the plywood under the carpet.... regardless of the carpet pad... but some pads do better than others.
Now, you can make your offer subject to "totally eliminating pet oder as sellers expense and to your satisfaction". You'll at least get their attention, and if the price is good enough, just do it.
Another thing you could do is have the seller carry back paper (or a second) and make the cost of the repairs deductible from the paper (could be hard to get, but would work well). And while you're at it have the seller carry the whole thing... at SOFT terms... I much prefer that to a cash offer.
And, we are in a BUYER'S MARKET. Buy wholesale or DON'T BUY. The money is made (or saved) going in..... and we could really easily go down a bit more before going back up.....
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
What should I think of this:
Is that septic? Or storm drain? Or sump pump?
jesse
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I have no idea. It is in the garage.
wsuffa
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OK, then it's not septic. That's good.
How big across? And is it roughly in the center of the floor?
Some garages have floor drains.
Assuming those are 3" pipes exiting the side, it's most likely a floor drain of some kind. That type off pipe is not approved for sewer (or piping to septic from house) or water - it might possibly be used in septic drain field, but if it's in the garage, that can't be. The 3 and 4 inch versions of that pipe are typically used for downspout drainage, yard drains, drains in driveways and sidewalks, etc.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
One other thought: it's possible that those are flex conduit for wiring. That would be true if it's in the wall (or if those tubes coming in from the side are very small - like 1").
jesse
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The house is a split level. I didn't notice this really that much until I started looking at all the pictures I took. The garage is basically in teh ground.
The back wall of the garage....makes..me think it might leak..at least thats waht im assuming those stains on the wall would be from
I'm trying to figure out how big of a deal this may or may not be.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Is that it in the back corner? If so, it's a drain.
The stains are due to water penetration. Back wall looks like concrete. If so, it's seepage - meaning that the yard drainage outside the wall is not quite right. If the garage opens into a lower level of the house, you can bet that the same back wall has the same kind of issue.
A good indepenedent inspector (and I stress "good") could tell you for sure, but my best guess based on pictures is above. Likewise, if you're serious about the house, have mold testing done.
Good waterproofing is neither cheap nor easy. It has to be done from the outside, which means digging up the dirt along the wall, coating the outside of the wall, putting in appropriate drain pipes, and regrading the land so the water flows away from the house. If the house is carved into a hill, water flows downward towards the wall.
jesse
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wsuffa
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That's what I guessed.
If you've got that water penetration into the garage, I'd bet on it being the same behind the wall inside the lower level of the house.
You really want a slope away from the house on ALL sides - in addition to waterproofing and drainage. In my area, a 5%+ slope is recommended away from the house (at least 5-10 feet).
The specfic need for drainage and waterproofing depends on the soil. You want drainage along the wall (drain pipe) so you relieve any hydraulic pressure along the wall.
This is a case where a good home inspector that knows the local soils and local code is worth every penny.
If you have to fix the drainage in the back yard, you're probably looking at multiple thousands of dollars.
If you've got that water penetration into the garage, I'd bet on it being the same behind the wall inside the lower level of the house.
You really want a slope away from the house on ALL sides - in addition to waterproofing and drainage. In my area, a 5%+ slope is recommended away from the house (at least 5-10 feet).
The specfic need for drainage and waterproofing depends on the soil. You want drainage along the wall (drain pipe) so you relieve any hydraulic pressure along the wall.
This is a case where a good home inspector that knows the local soils and local code is worth every penny.
If you have to fix the drainage in the back yard, you're probably looking at multiple thousands of dollars.
Trapper John
Ejection Handle Pulled
The way the lot slopes from the back lot line toward the back of the house is not a good thing. No wonder the garage is wet. Like Bill said, good waterproofing and drainage is expensive, that's why builders skimp. I'd pass on this one, just my opinion.
Trapper John
Cap'n Jack
Final Approach
Jesse- I suggest you look at another house. The slope of the back yard isn't conducive to moving water away from the house.
That sump has water in it- when was the last time it rained prior to that photograph being taken, and how much rain did the area see? Please note Lincoln is down ~5 or 6 inches of rain for the year- I would question any house that had water in the sump. The surface water table should be down.
When I was looking, Nebraska was in a 10 year drought and Lincoln hadn't had any rain in a while- any house that had water in the sump was automatically removed from my list.
A house built into the side of a hill shouldn't have issues since the surface water can drain away, but the land on the towards the top of the hill should be sculpted to move the water from the house. Proper grading doesn't cost that much if it is done when the land is being graded for the initial construction but it gets expensive afterwards.
That sump has water in it- when was the last time it rained prior to that photograph being taken, and how much rain did the area see? Please note Lincoln is down ~5 or 6 inches of rain for the year- I would question any house that had water in the sump. The surface water table should be down.
When I was looking, Nebraska was in a 10 year drought and Lincoln hadn't had any rain in a while- any house that had water in the sump was automatically removed from my list.
A house built into the side of a hill shouldn't have issues since the surface water can drain away, but the land on the towards the top of the hill should be sculpted to move the water from the house. Proper grading doesn't cost that much if it is done when the land is being graded for the initial construction but it gets expensive afterwards.
My experience as an insurance adjuster is "Don't buy this house" No water damage after a storm will be covered by insurance unless you have an NFIP policy. I did a bunch of houses just like this after hurricane Floyd in a Richmond VA neighborhood. All damage was denied since it's considered flood damage if the water is on the ground before it comes in.
The back yard slopes into the house..the house is built into the hill:
Trapper John
Ejection Handle Pulled
Very good point. NFIP policies are inexpensive, but better yet, check the FIRMs to make sure you're not looking at a property in the 100-year or 500-year floodplains.
http://msc.fema.gov/webapp/wcs/stor...eView?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
Trapper John
NFIP policies are not available everywhere, at least they weren't when I was in the business. That was one of the problems in Richmond, most of the people didn't have flood coverage because it wasn't available since they weren't in a flood zone.
Trapper John
Ejection Handle Pulled
Yes, availability can be a problem. The community must participate in the NFIP program for residents to be able to buy a policy (some communities don't participate because there are responsibilities placed on the community by FEMA). Then the rates are set based on the flood zone (A, B, X, etc.), so you can buy an NFIP policy even if you're outside the 100 and 500-year floodplains as long as the community participates.
Trapper John