Starting an Airline?

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N22080

Filing Flight Plan
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N22080
How neat would it be to start your own airline? has anyone ever looked into this topic deeply? I have always looked to accomplish this life goal, I am now curious as to who else, if anyone shares this same dream? :D
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Know how to make a million dollars in the airline business?
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with the perfect business plan :smilewinkgrin: Thats the hard part about it though, what is the perfect business plan :confused: this rough airline market does not make it easy on the airline entrepreneur :nonod:
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Know how to make a million dollars in the airline business?
Click to expand...

Start with a couple of billion.

Preferably OPM (Other Peoples' Money).

Jokes aside, the allure and romance of aviation has led to more ill-considered airline startups than I could possibly name, but I'll reference just a few, each and all of which were started by people with the best of intentions, and a very comprehensive set of blinders on.

Pride Air ("We'll show that Frank Lorenzo who knows how to run an airline!")
Braniff (mark 2)
Legend
Pan Am (mark 2)
MGM Grand Air
Independence Air
Muse Air (aka "Revenge Air")
Air West
Emerald Air
Midway (two different ones, same name)

This could go on all day.
 
yes i hear ya! :frown2: That list could go on for a long time. Still does not venture me away from the thought of starting one :D
 
I know, I know.....We could start an airline that had plenty of legroom, didn't charge for checking bags and serves food to stowage class. Oh wait, I must have fallen asleep and been dreaming. :rolleyes:
 
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: that was good! Ill be sure to add that to the master plan :smilewinkgrin:
 
You'd stand to make more money making buggy whips, washboards or console radios.
 
JeffDG said:
And by "make more money", all of those will have a smaller absolute negative number of profit.
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Ya, I guess you can make up for the losses with volume in the airline biz. What else would explain the United/Continental merger? :D
 
If this is not a joke, then as your friends we are duty-bound to present the reality of it to you. If we cannot dissuade you with the truth of it, then perform your due diligence and let us know what you find.

Here is an interesting example. In my area, there have been so many failed airlines (small but scheduled carriers) that someone actually wrote a book documenting them all. If that is not a sign to 'forget it', then what is? Well, still folks insist this can happen, and spend their $$$$$ on the fanciful impossible dream. Oh well, its good for the economy.

Honestly we hope you succeed. But for us to sit quietly at this point would be criminal.
 
Well first off I never stated that I was going to start anything. Would it be neat? yeah absolutely. Do I understand the extreme failure rate of the airline industry HELL YES I DO!

How neat would it be to start your own airline? has anyone ever looked into this topic deeply? I have always looked to accomplish this life goal, I am now curious as to who else, if anyone shares this same dream?

Thats the initial question.... Nothing in there about carrying out the process of starting an airline. Its just several questions I have been curious about. Thank you for the concern.
 
haha, I guess you got us good.
I must point out you did not use the words daydream, whimsical, fantasy, 'I would not really do this' anywhere in your post; folks will generally take you at your word here.

Yes, many of us have thought about this but almost the same number have gone no further. You could probably come up with a good board game Start Your Airline, and make some real dough off all us wannabees.
 
The only way to start up and have a successful airline is to cater to business travelers. Unfortunately with the economy the way it is, even if you could raise the capital to fly and maintain a few planes, the higher ups in the corporate structure are all about bottom line. So while you could target the business traveler and offer all sorts of perks, they will never convince their slavemasters that springing for the extra $$ to fly your airline is beneficial to the company.

Unless you can figure out a way around some FAA regulations to ship people as freight instead of treating them as passengers, nearly any airline startup is bound to fail.
 
Back when Chicago/Meigs was operating, I thought it would be really clever to run an on-demand airline from the outlying Chicago airports into Meigs.

Running late for your meeting in the city? How about a 15 minute flight vs a 1.5 hours drive ?

Starting a regional airline would be immensely expensive. In contrast, I thought that this kind of approach (a metro airline?) could be done with reasonable startup expenses of maybe a few $M.


N22080 said:
How neat would it be to start your own airline? has anyone ever looked into this topic deeply? I have always looked to accomplish this life goal, I am now curious as to who else, if anyone shares this same dream? :D
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EdFred said:
Unless you can figure out a way around some FAA regulations to ship people as freight instead of treating them as passengers, nearly any airline startup is bound to fail.
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All the current commercial carriers treat us as freight, so I don't see a problem there.

The FAA regs to get around would be operating as Part 91 instead of 135/121, and get away from some of the paperwork. I'm pretty sure it'd be hard for you to convince an inspector that you're operating a fleet of Dash 8s as a Part 91 operation, though.

To the OP: Yep, it'd be really cool. Too bad it's only something practical as a daydream...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
All the current commercial carriers treat us as freight, so I don't see a problem there.
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Yes, but then they could:

Eliminate seats - weight and cost savings!
Eliminate FA's - hormone and cost savings!
Stuff as many people into the hold as possible - more income!
 
Ed, I think you're onto something.

First new airline technology: New-age anesthesia.
 
SCCutler said:
Ed, I think you're onto something.

First new airline technology: New-age anesthesia.
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Yeah, but then after I sell it off the new CEO would get the brainstorm to charge for catheters.
 
dmccormack said:
Wouldn't it be cheaper and less hassle-filled to start a freight line than a people-moving airline?
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Thats what I was thinking as well. I know a few guys in the area here that started a small cargo/mail carrying company and they are doing quite well with it!
 
N22080 said:
Thats what I was thinking as well. I know a few guys in the area here that started a small cargo/mail carrying company and they are doing quite well with it!
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There's a "medical cargo" (??) operation near here. Not sure how "well" they are doing, but they keep a Citation and a couple of King Airs flying.

:dunno:
 
Like any proposed business find a need and fill it.

Is there a need for your airline?

Today there are probably a few possibilities for a startup.

Muscle in on large high demand routes based on price (be cheaper) and convenience (better arrival and departure time) or direct from a smaller airport, etc. For Instance compete with DTW to Orlando on weekends for Vacationeers and Cruise traffic via FNT or TOL. Fly weekends only so you don't incur the losses during the week.

Try a commuter express like the old Eastern on the East Coast or United had on the West Coast. The problem will be getting any gate time at a major HUB.

All you need is a plane with better passeneger amenities that you can fly at a lower cost and a more convenient time than the current players.

Good Luck
 
RMCN172RG said:
Like any proposed business find a need and fill it.

Is there a need for your airline?

Today there are probably a few possibilities for a startup.

Muscle in on large high demand routes based on price (be cheaper) and convenience (better arrival and departure time) or direct from a smaller airport, etc. For Instance compete with DTW to Orlando on weekends for Vacationeers and Cruise traffic via FNT or TOL. Fly weekends only so you don't incur the losses during the week.

Try a commuter express like the old Eastern on the East Coast or United had on the West Coast. The problem will be getting any gate time at a major HUB.

All you need is a plane with better passeneger amenities that you can fly at a lower cost and a more convenient time than the current players.

Good Luck
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I am going to have to say, this is the most complete and logical answer yet! Thanks for the insight! What you are saying about weekends only is an awesome idea! I have never thought of that.... :mad3::D
 
What do you do with the planes the other 5 days of the week? Still gotta make the lease payment every month.
 
There is an outfit called DirectAir that seems to be surviving. The found the local airport (KORH - Worcester, MA) had a marketing grant, and managed to convince the "powers that be" to let them spend it. Worcester had no airline.

DirectAir runs two flights per week to Myrtle Beach, and I think two more to Florida. They do not own the aircraft, nor do they have any employees. They contract gate agents and luggage handlers through the local airports. The planes were originally chartered from Virgin Atlantic, but have since moved to another carrier (cheaper?).

There have been major complaints, mostly due to a lack of communication. When a plane is late, nobody is told. There are no employees to tell anyone.

It still seems like an interesting concept. Since they don't own the equipment, they can simply charter whatever they need for the number of passengers. They operate as a public charter (part 135), but I think they use the carriers certificate. They're more like brokers or facilitators.

They routinely cancel flights if they don't have enough bookings, but they provide at least two weeks notice, so you're not likely to get stranded at the other end.
 
Trapper John said:
What do you do with the planes the other 5 days of the week? Still gotta make the lease payment every month.
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You are probably only looking at three days a week, Weekend traffic runs from Friday to Monday in most resort locations. Monday and Friday also give you a shot at the full week business commuter.

With Orlando in particular there are a lot of Cruise's with mid week departures so if you could work with a large travel agency in a semi charter mode you could, potentially, be flying full airplanes with no overhead for marketing and sales until you have an established cash flow and flight operation in place.
 
SCCutler said:
Pride Air ("We'll show that Frank Lorenzo who knows how to run an airline!")
Braniff (mark 2)
Legend
Pan Am (mark 2)
MGM Grand Air
Independence Air
Muse Air (aka "Revenge Air")
Air West
Emerald Air
Midway (two different ones, same name)

This could go on all day.
Click to expand...

People Express
Vanguard
Hooters Air...
 
Right now, I've got enough money to last me the rest of my life (within reason). Why would I want to screw that up?
 
What would be more interesting, to own an airport or an airline?
 
SCCutler said:
Start with a couple of billion.

Preferably OPM (Other Peoples' Money).

Jokes aside, the allure and romance of aviation has led to more ill-considered airline startups than I could possibly name, but I'll reference just a few, each and all of which were started by people with the best of intentions, and a very comprehensive set of blinders on.

Pride Air ("We'll show that Frank Lorenzo who knows how to run an airline!")
Braniff (mark 2)
Legend
Pan Am (mark 2)
MGM Grand Air
Independence Air
Muse Air (aka "Revenge Air")
Air West
Emerald Air
Midway (two different ones, same name)

This could go on all day.
Click to expand...

This reminded me of another failed airline, Barbara Airline. They had a TV commercial featuring a stewardess played by an unknown 17 year old model... Kim Basinger.
 
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