Starman completes first lap around Sol

flyingcheesehead said:
He is one of the most successful people in the world. Tesla and SpaceX are his third generation of businesses, and they have already accomplished truly amazing things.
Click to expand...

Depends on how you define success. I wouldn’t have dinner with him. Ripping off people indirectly through debt laden business failures isn’t success, it’s just PT Barnum.
 
denverpilot said:
Depends on how you define success. I wouldn’t have dinner with him. Ripping off people indirectly through debt laden business failures isn’t success, it’s just PT Barnum.
Click to expand...
You mean like the governments? ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Depends on how you define success. I wouldn’t have dinner with him. Ripping off people indirectly through debt laden business failures isn’t success, it’s just PT Barnum.
Click to expand...

Debt laden business failures? He didn't take home nearly $200 million from debt laden failures. And Tesla, while they certainly have debt, is certainly not a failure. SpaceX, because it's private, well, we don't know how they're doing financially. But, they seem to be doing all right, and making great things happen.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Debt laden business failures? He didn't take home nearly $200 million from debt laden failures. And Tesla, while they certainly have debt, is certainly not a failure. SpaceX, because it's private, well, we don't know how they're doing financially. But, they seem to be doing all right, and making great things happen.
Click to expand...

The common theme these days. Suck cash out while he can and let others wait around for profitability - all the while making sure to have a solid base of wannabees who love what the debt laden company does. They don’t even invest and have no real skin in the game, they just cheerlead from the sidelines without a single one of their own dollars at risk, for the most part.

Tesla sucked up his solar failure. None of the Tesla investors wanted that risk. He and his Board decided they’d dump it on them. WalMart is suing over shoddy workmanship.

People who invested in the car company shouldn’t be saddled with his other horsecrap business that can’t find a way to be profitable. Asinine merger.
 
denverpilot said:
The common theme these days. Suck cash out while he can and let others wait around for profitability - all the while making sure to have a solid base of wannabees who love what the debt laden company does. They don’t even invest and have no real skin in the game, they just cheerlead from the sidelines without a single one of their own dollars at risk, for the most part.
Click to expand...

PayPal was profitable before he left. Dunno about Zip2, but really, we're splitting hairs. The man has done more than you and I will ever do. He has made some crazy predictions and promises - I mean, stuff that was SUPER "out there" at the time - And he has delivered on a lot of those things. That is, undeniably, success.

Tesla sucked up his solar failure. None of the Tesla investors wanted that risk. He and his Board decided they’d dump it on them. WalMart is suing over shoddy workmanship.
Click to expand...

It wasn't "his" solar failure. It was his cousin's. The "rescue" was not the smartest thing ever, but OTOH, there are a LOT of Tesla owners who put solar on their houses, so the idea of being able to offer a package deal isn't a bad one. It's clear that the R&D efforts are much more geared towards the cars and the power storage systems than the solar side of things.
 
Ahhhhh.... it's nice to see PoA back to quasi-normal.....

Meaning when Kent and Nate start jousting with each other over some topic.

We missed ya while you were gone Nate.... was a bit too.... quiet....
 
flyingcheesehead said:
stuff that was SUPER "out there" at the time
Click to expand...
"At the time" ??? There are things he's dabbling in that are just so bat chit crazy, the disruption that is happening because of the concept is just nutz. And if they actually work and come into normal every day use... it's going to be a big culture change....

One item being the concept of long distance tunnels where vehicles equipped with full self driving can really scoot along to their destinations.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It's clear that the R&D efforts are much more geared towards the cars and the power storage systems than the solar side of things.
Click to expand...
A video related to your comment that discusses some of the usage data of the Tesla Powerwall 2

 
The solar side is totally screwed if you listen to the earnings release call or read the transcript.

They hide all but the bottom line numbers in the 10K and babbled briefly on the call about hanging all hope for the division on a single rental business model they’re “still working on”.

It’s really bad. They’re totally milking the car company investors for cash to sustain the already failed solar side.

That’s the kind of business stuff that keeps me saying Musk is scummy. The neato things he does are great, but someone should be able to pull them off with out lying about the numbers constantly. He has enough fans to fund things run them profitably, and chooses not to.

And his BoD. Good lord. Corporate governance is a total joke these days anyway, but they couldn’t even decide if they should put a leash on him on Twitter at 2AM drunk, high, or whatever, after he told the world a detractor was a pedophile... and investor protections? Who voted to absorb the solar disaster into a car company? They’re asleep at the wheel or really don’t have control of the companies.

The investors are downright weird. They’ll just keep shoveling cash at him for no returns or very diluted returns. They don’t seem to care much.

Visionary sure. Con artist ripping off investors? Definitely. The businesses meet no standards for fiscal prudence for their sizes. He’ll happily blow billions and not care and his BoD won’t say boo.
 
@denverpilot, no one is forced or coerced to invest money in Tesla. No one. If investors don't do their due diligence, then that's entirely on them. It's not like all the issues and personalities involved aren't well known and well publicized. If people want to risk their money -- well, that's up to them.

All big businesses have their failures. Some are bad enough to kill the company, most are not. All business is risk based; some are willing to take a lot more risk than others. If you win more than you lose, you still win. When a company is run by someone like Musk (or Buffett, for that matter) there will be choices made that just don't work out. Berkshire Hathaway has lost billions on bad investments due to Warren's mistakes... people still buy their stock, and for good reasons.
 
DaleB said:
@denverpilot, no one is forced or coerced to invest money in Tesla. No one. If investors don't do their due diligence, then that's entirely on them. It's not like all the issues and personalities involved aren't well known and well publicized. If people want to risk their money -- well, that's up to them.

All big businesses have their failures. Some are bad enough to kill the company, most are not. All business is risk based; some are willing to take a lot more risk than others. If you win more than you lose, you still win. When a company is run by someone like Musk (or Buffett, for that matter) there will be choices made that just don't work out. Berkshire Hathaway has lost billions on bad investments due to Warren's mistakes... people still buy their stock, and for good reasons.
Click to expand...

Comparing Berkshire to anything Musk has run is like comparing Goldman Sachs to some guy making payday loans from a strip mall. LOL

But thanks for the belly laugh this morning.
 
denverpilot said:
Comparing Berkshire to anything Musk has run is like comparing Goldman Sachs to some guy making payday loans from a strip mall. LOL

But thanks for the belly laugh this morning.
Click to expand...
You're welcome. And you're welcome to continue to completely, totally miss the point (or just selectively ignore, since I'll assume you're not a complete dolt). The mention of Buffett and Berkshire was in no way meant to compare the two, as I'm quite certain you know perfectly well. It was simply to illustrate that mercurial, egotistical, outspoken leaders of companies like Musk are not the only ones who occasionally lose (and lose big) when taking chances in business. They're not even the only ones who make stupid decisions based on their personal feelings that can end up costing investors huge amounts of money.

But if you really DO want to compare Buffett and Musk...
  • Both are run by people who are basically worshipped by their stockholders as gods.
  • Buffett, by his own estimates, has cost his stockholders billions more in value than Musk has.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top