Stalls in a Piper Archer II

stevenhmiller

stevenhmiller

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Steve's Archer
I'm a student with about 6 hours of training. I've been dreading the stalls training. So far, I've done the power off stall and power on stall. The Archer II is so forgiving, it's anti-climatic. When approaching the stall, the horn goes off and there is quite a bit of time to recover before even getting into a full stall. And when getting into a full stall, the plane pretty much recovers itself. The exception is just maintaining rudder control in a power on stall. After doing both types of stalls, going into full stall and recovering, I looked at my instructor and he smiled and said, "That's all there is to it." Truthfully, I'm glad it was that easy.

Anyone else find that the fear of learning stalls seem to be overstated in their planes? The Archer II is my personal plane, so I doubt I'll be flying others for quite a while, but what are your experiences with different planes and stalls?
 
I did all of my training in a 172, after getting my license I got checked out in our club archers. I'll take a stall in the archer any day over thhe 172. Much less dramatic over the high wing.
 
stevenhmiller said:
I'm a student with about 6 hours of training. I've been dreading the stalls training. So far, I've done the power off stall and power on stall. The Archer II is so forgiving, it's anti-climatic.
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I've heard of climate change denial, but never wholesale climate denial. Don't let the environmentalists hear that your plane is anti-climatic! We've got enough trouble just with AvGas... :D

After doing both types of stalls, going into full stall and recovering, I looked at my instructor and he smiled and said, "That's all there is to it." Truthfully, I'm glad it was that easy.

Anyone else find that the fear of learning stalls seem to be overstated in their planes? The Archer II is my personal plane, so I doubt I'll be flying others for quite a while, but what are your experiences with different planes and stalls?
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Actually, I've never understood why people fear stall training, period. It's just a flight regime of your aircraft that you need to be familiar with. For most trainers used in primary instruction, stalls are gentle, give the pilot plenty of warning that they're coming, and are simple to recover from.

I think it's mostly fear of the unknown.
 
That not completely correct on your instructors part.

You need to do a accelerated stall, stall while turning and a falling leaf stall before I would consider that you went through the entire series (I know not required by the PTS). It's what I do with my guys before solo.

If your plane was rated for spins I would also say you should do a couple as well.

muddy00 said:
Much less dramatic over the high wing.
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Depends on the high wing, you want a docile stall try a Stinson 108.
 
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I read Stick and Rudder before beginning my training. That allayed any fears. Haven't flown an Archer, though.
 
The anxiety for the maneuvers ,is usually greater than the stall itself.
 
When my wife wanted to experience a stall, I took her up in an Archer, did a straight ahead power off stall, and had to tell her when it broke.

My son prefers 152s. Better ride.

I was nervous for my first stall, but not so much after. Falling leafs in a 172 were a fabulous confidence booster.
 
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I have done most of my training in a Warrior, so almost the same as an Archer. I have read several places the Piper trainers are criticized for almost being too gentile in stalls. I have found that even during power on stalls only mild rudder is needed, and the plane gives tons of warning. When it finally breaks, it is almost a non event. In the Warrior you can sit there all day, with stall horn blaring, a mild amount of right rudder dialed in, and about a 14 to 15 degree pitch angle. The best is when you can actually get the plane under the POH stall speed, an still hold it there. I know other plane require much more aggressive control.

So when people switch over to other aircraft they are almost surprised by how much more aggressive, and sudden the stall is in other models. My flight school uses a M20J as its complex trainer. The CFI's have said most people are shocked at how hard and sudden that plane breaks when it finally stalls, and that it is much more prone to actually starting to spin.
 
James331 said:
That not completely correct on your instructors part.

You need to do a accelerated stall, stall while turning and a falling leaf stall before I would consider that you went through the entire series (I know not required by the PTS). It's what I do with my guys before solo.
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That's coming this week. I told him I like to take it slow and be able to do things competently and with ease before moving on to new things.
 
drotto said:
I have done most of my training in a Warrior, so almost the same as an Archer. I have read several places the Piper trainers are criticized for almost being too gentile in stalls. I have found that even during power on stalls only mild rudder is needed, and the plane gives tons of warning. When it finally breaks, it is almost a non event. In the Warrior you can sit there all day, with stall horn blaring, a mild amount of right rudder dialed in, and about a 14 to 15 degree pitch angle. The best is when you can actually get the plane under the POH stall speed, an still hold it there. I know other plane require much more aggressive control.
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The Warrior is the same fuselage as the Archer II, I'm told. So, characteristics will be the same. It really is a forgiving plane. I love it!
 
Similar, not the same. The cowling is obviously different, and the feel in the flare is slightly different. The main difference is that it's a LOT easier to load an Archer way below max gross.

But their characteristics are pretty similar.
 
MAKG1 said:
Similar, not the same. The cowling is obviously different, and the feel in the flare is slightly different. The main difference is that it's a LOT easier to load an Archer way below max gross.

But their characteristics are pretty similar.
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Yes, you are correct. They are similar, but not the same. My mistake in wording. But, very forgiving, never-the-less.
 
I'd recommend doing some stalls in a 172 and see if you can get a little wing dip. Its kind of scary when it first happens, but it it great learning. When I did my recent BFR, I was in a 172, and for the first time I experienced a pretty dramatic wing dip with a power-on stall. Its kind of an "oh chit" moment, but it was nice to experience it with a CFI and learn how to correct. By the end of the BFR I was staying much more coordinated in the stall and took home a valuable lesson. We also did some falling leaf stalls in the 172, which was pretty cool.

Now stalls in my Challenger (Archer I) seem super benign. Its amazing how relaxed these Pipers are in stalls. The 172 characteristics did kind of whet my appetite for some spin training though :)
 
172 stalls are a sleeper. Da20 stalls... Not sure the wing actually stalls unless you kick the rudder and spin the aircraft.


You need to give it a try in a high performance aircraft like a mooney or a bonanza... Still getting used to that one. Yea, if you are good, the wing drop is just a little, but my first time was 30+ degrees on a power off stall. Recovery is still easy though.. But still not going to do a power on stall ....
 
First stall i ever did felt like my seat fell out from under me. Keep practicing and you will feel more used to it.
 
Do a power on stall in a 20 degree bank at full power if you want some excitement. Do it with an instructor.

Mine had me do that after I'd become very used to the yawner stalls of the Archer.... woke me right up.
 
I've never been afraid of any maneuvers. Doing stalls in a Cherokee is not a big deal at all.
 
It's incredibly common for students to have fears of stalls. I would say most of them I've taught are that way. But most overcome it on the first flight that we practice them and think it's a non-issue from there on out.

That said, I would say half the people I do flight reviews for, are once again scared of them but know I'm going to make them do it. Afterwords they're fine again. Private owners tend to be the worst because it seems like they are better at finding those that give pencil whipped flight reviews. I did a flight review for a guy with a Mooney who would scared to death of stalling it, told me no instructor has made him stall it in the last 20 years of his ownership. I told him we'd either do stalls or he'd have to finish the review with someone else. We did it, it was a non event, and he was very happy I forced it.
 
I still remember my first stall. I trained in a 172, and thought it was no big deal when it was demonstrated to me. After I took the yoke, things changed. Still, it is something you should be comfortable with. On my PPL checkride, I had to demonstrate the power on stall during a 15 degree left turn.
 
Just curious, at what altitude do you all practice stalls? AGL


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Been doing them 2500 to 3000 AGL.
 
RalphInCA said:
Just curious, at what altitude do you all practice stalls? AGL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Really depends on the airplane type. If weather permits and it has a good climb rate usually around 2,800 AGL. Some airplanes that's not practical in the summer with limited performance and in those cases I'm fine with doing it lower. Also depends how likely I think the pilot is to screw it up and how likely I think they might complicate recovery.
 
It the stall (power-off, power-on, aggravated etc) is practiced right, it is a non-event. But if you are un-coordinated, things can change quickly.
Frankly, as a student, I was more afraid of steep turns (before I did them) than stalls or any other maneuver. But each and every one of us has different perception of the world and thus different feel of certain maneuvers, it is understandable.

AFAIR, my instructor never called any stall practice the "falling leaf" maneuver but he did have me put it at the edge of the stall and "balance the nose" using nothing but rudders. The easy way avoid using the aileron to pick up a wing is to apply backpressure to the center of the yoke with one or two fingers which mentally does not feel like one could turn the yoke anyway. Worked well for me.
 
drotto said:
I have done most of my training in a Warrior, so almost the same as an Archer. I have read several places the Piper trainers are criticized for almost being too gentile in stalls. I have found that even during power on stalls only mild rudder is needed, and the plane gives tons of warning. When it finally breaks, it is almost a non event. In the Warrior you can sit there all day, with stall horn blaring, a mild amount of right rudder dialed in, and about a 14 to 15 degree pitch angle. The best is when you can actually get the plane under the POH stall speed, an still hold it there. I know other plane require much more aggressive control.

So when people switch over to other aircraft they are almost surprised by how much more aggressive, and sudden the stall is in other models. My flight school uses a M20J as its complex trainer. The CFI's have said most people are shocked at how hard and sudden that plane breaks when it finally stalls, and that it is much more prone to actually starting to spin.
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When you fly the mooney you will be surprised it is very predictable when you stall it. If you don't keep the ball centered then it will drop a wing. Keep the ball centered and it is just like any low wing trainer.
 
I'd stall my airplane more often, but to be honest I can barely get it to stall. Mushes pretty good, though.
 
steingar said:
I'd stall my airplane more often, but to be honest I can barely get it to stall. Mushes pretty good, though.
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Get a more aft CG condition.

Our 182 is docile as a lamb in stalls with just 2 people up front (forward-most CG). Put an observer in the backseat and it'll try to drop a wing on you every time.
 
I am training in a Warrior and I will say that the stalls are pretty benign. My instructor let me take a hop with him in his personal 182 last week and had me do a couple of stalls, power on and power off. It was much more pronounced and aggressive. I couldn't keep the left wing up. It was easy to recover, but man, the wing dropped fast as opposed to the Warrior.
 
I think it's the word "stall" itself that provokes fear. I think people hear "stall" and "airplane" and think of suddenly falling out of the sky.
 
mikeinbama said:
I am training in a Warrior and I will say that the stalls are pretty benign. My instructor let me take a hop with him in his personal 182 last week and had me do a couple of stalls, power on and power off. It was much more pronounced and aggressive. I couldn't keep the left wing up. It was easy to recover, but man, the wing dropped fast as opposed to the Warrior.
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Hehe. No kidding.

I think the pretty "Skylane" moniker on the tail of some 182s is a misnomer. It should say "more right rudder."
 
When I checked out in a Cherokee 160, with just me and the owner/CFI on board, we couldn't get it to do a proper stall-break, it just mushed around to a lower altitude. Short of having a canard, it is about as stall-resistant as they come.
 
The Piper Tomahawk is supposed to be prone to spin and more difficult to get out of. It's possible to get out of a spin (despite some people saying it's not), but you have to execute the textbook procedure; powering to idle and neutral aileron won't cut it like in most other airplanes.
 
I trained in a Warrior/Archer. No biggie. Had CFI demonstrate before each maneuver. In Canada, incipients were part of PTS when I got my license. Did them in older Cherokees. Did them in skidding turns- that taught me to be careful.

Worst case was in 1977 or 1978 in a Tomahawk practicing stalls and incipient spins with an instructor. The results were concerning....I never flew a a Tomahawk after that. The instructor unfortunately perished in one several months later in Western Canada.
 
asgcpa said:
I trained in a Warrior/Archer. No biggie. Had CFI demonstrate before each maneuver. In Canada, incipients were part of PTS when I got my license. Did them in older Cherokees. Did them in skidding turns- that taught me to be careful.

Worst case was in 1977 or 1978 in a Tomahawk practicing stalls and incipient spins with an instructor. The results were concerning....I never flew a a Tomahawk after that. The instructor unfortunately perished in one several months later in Western Canada.
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Not sure what its like stalling one, but they were actually designed to want to spin, whereas most airplanes are designed not to.
 
Mike5250 said:
When you fly the mooney you will be surprised it is very predictable when you stall it. If you don't keep the ball centered then it will drop a wing. Keep the ball centered and it is just like any low wing trainer.
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Cardinals are exactly the same.
 
When I first did stalls in a 172, they were a non event. The plane stayed coordinated fine. However, the 152 I train in now likes to drop its left wing even in a power-off stall. It spooked me the first time I didn't add a touch of right rudder like my instructor advised. I was spooked for quite some time after. I also had a wing drop when I did an overaggressive power-on stall later in the same plane.

Those two incidents drove home the importance of my feet on the rudder pedals.

I don't think it's uncommon to be anxious. I realize now that most of my anxiety is unwarranted. I also find that if I haven't done them in a while, doing some steep turns and other maneuvers to warm up makes me more comfortable.
 
NickC99 said:
When I first did stalls in a 172, they were a non event. The plane stayed coordinated fine. However, the 152 I train in now likes to drop its left wing even in a power-off stall. It spooked me the first time I didn't add a touch of right rudder like my instructor advised. I was spooked for quite some time after. I also had a wing drop when I did an overaggressive power-on stall later in the same plane.

Those two incidents drove home the importance of my feet on the rudder pedals.

I don't think it's uncommon to be anxious. I realize now that most of my anxiety is unwarranted. I also find that if I haven't done them in a while, doing some steep turns and other maneuvers to warm up makes me more comfortable.
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There is a reason as an instructor I can sit with my hands folded all the time with no concern. The reason is because my feet are always on a hair trigger. Rudder is a big deal.
 
jesse said:
It's incredibly common for students to have fears of stalls. I would say most of them I've taught are that way. But most overcome it on the first flight that we practice them and think it's a non-issue from there on out.

That said, I would say half the people I do flight reviews for, are once again scared of them but know I'm going to make them do it. Afterwords they're fine again. Private owners tend to be the worst because it seems like they are better at finding those that give pencil whipped flight reviews. I did a flight review for a guy with a Mooney who would scared to death of stalling it, told me no instructor has made him stall it in the last 20 years of his ownership. I told him we'd either do stalls or he'd have to finish the review with someone else. We did it, it was a non event, and he was very happy I forced it.
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My own experience -

I did stalls on my intro flight, and they were a non event. Would go out and practice them solo, and loved them. Then i flew with a CFI that had a bajillion years of experience, that i looked up to, and let a wing drop in a 152, and he screamed at me, are you trying to kill us, wtf are you doing.... Busted my PPL ride over stalls and took some real time with my regular CFI to get used to them again, turning stalls, accelerated stalls, etc..
 
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