"Staggering" Pilot Shortage?

tspear said:
Depends. Twenty years ago, no plane could be flown without a flight engineer. In the Air Force, no fighter/attack aircraft could be single crew. The flight engineer was eliminated on all new aircraft, the F18, F22 and F35 are all single pilot and can perform multi-roles including attack.
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Tim
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There's so much wrong with this part of your statement that I don't even know where to start.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Planes have flown without a FE for far longer than 20 years.

There were single pilot fighters in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam.

Not sure where you pull your info from.
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Should have been more specific. I was referencing FE for airlines and RIO for fighters.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
FloridaPilot said:
. 10 years is not that far away, I was thinking more of 20 years the actual building of the hyperloop, getting permits..etc is going to take up much of that time,
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Heck, it takes 20 years to construct new interstate.
 
tspear said:
Should have been more specific. I was referencing FE for airlines and RIO for fighters.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
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Ah, you meant the F-15 and F-16 single-seat fighters that came out 20 years ago and replaced two man crews. Or the 737 and Airbus series.
 
They have nearly 300 mph trains in the very very earthquake prone Japan now, and have had for a long while. The tunnels hold up well.
 
tspear said:
Money. Train engineers make less money, and are a significantly smaller portion of the costs to operate.
I forget the airline, but they calculated changing to iPads instead of paper charts saved 75lbs per flight and roughly $200K a year in fuel costs (if memory serves). Think how much the airline will save in fuel to eliminate the 200lb co-pilot? Let alone the salary and benefits.

Tim
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Train engineers make a ton of money. Easily as much as most pilots.
 
ateamer said:
Ah, you meant the F-15 and F-16 single-seat fighters that came out 20 years ago and replaced two man crews. Or the 737 and Airbus series.
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True, I was thinking of the F-14, A-6, A-10.....

Tim
 
tspear said:
Should have been more specific. I was referencing FE for airlines and RIO for fighters.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
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F-86, F-100, F-102, F-104, F-105, F-106, F-111, F-15, F-16
 
tspear said:
True, I was thinking of the F-14, A-6, A-10.....

Tim
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I'm just giving you a hard time, but the A-10 is one of the few aircraft that didn't have a two seat variant at all. They don't even have a radar, so they certainly don't need a Radar Intercept Officer!
 
I'm telling you guys...in 20 years all humans will be extinct...we will soon be taken over and replaced by AI robots. RIP human race.

No one will listen to me though :(
 
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tspear said:
Should have been more specific. I was referencing FE for airlines and RIO for fighters.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
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DC-9 entered airline service in 1965.
B737 1968
B757 1983
B767 1982

There are more examples but all of these airline jets without a FE entered service 30-50 years ago. Heck the 777 entered service 22 years ago in 1995.

I just don't see your point.
 
PPC1052 said:
Heck, it takes 20 years to construct new interstate.
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My prediction: The California High Speed Rail will be 90% completed (and 500% over budget), when someone will find the droppings of an endangered gnat near the right-of-way.

Game over.
 
jbarrass said:
They have nearly 300 mph trains in the very very earthquake prone Japan now, and have had for a long while. The tunnels hold up well.
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300 mph trains in Japan? I think the speed might be in kilometers per hour which is about 186 mph. Just as fast as the high-speed rail in Taiwan.
 
teejayevans said:
The flying part can be done today, the ATC verbal communication has to go. We'd have to add brake servos to the autopilot and add some smarts to handle frozen pitot tubes and other sensor errors.
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Well, the automatic braking has been around since at least the mid 90's. I remember even back then the 757 could fly an ILS, land on the center line and bring itself to a complete stop. It just couldn't lower the flaps or gear.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Well, the automatic braking has been around since at least the mid 90's. I remember even back then the 757 could fly an ILS, land on the center line and bring itself to a complete stop. It just couldn't lower the flaps or gear.
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So airlines will get rid of the captain and keep the first officer..????:lol::lol::lol:
 
The 'staggering' pilot shortage I shall accept when I start seeing wages rise. Until then - it's like the ice caps melting and all the other climate change hysteria. . . .
 
comanchepilot said:
The 'staggering' pilot shortage I shall accept when I start seeing wages rise. Until then - it's like the ice caps melting and all the other climate change hysteria. . . .
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There aren't any regionals paying peanuts anymore. Compared to what other people make on here it's probably way less but a majority of the regional wages have gone up.
 
jordane93 said:
There aren't any regionals paying peanuts anymore. Compared to what other people make on here it's probably way less but a majority of the regional wages have gone up.
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Yeas but most of it goes towards bonuses, not base pay. When they get enough pilots, watch that disappear quickly.
 
mscard88 said:
Yeas but most of it goes towards bonuses, not base pay. When they get enough pilots, watch that disappear quickly.
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mscard88. Yes. YAAAAAAAS!!!!
 
jordane93 said:
60K is with the bonus.
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So the bonus can be taken away, which was the point mscard88 was trying to make. When the demand for pilots subsides, I'd be willing to bet the bonuses will start to get smaller or disappear altogether. On the other hand, if the hourly rate was higher, making you that $60k, it would be harder to go backwards. Starting pay is looking appealing at the moment however. It's a good time to get in if you want in and you won't have to starve for the first few years.

Just my opinion, but I believe the "shortage" is a temporary thing that was created by a few contributing factors. I think there are probably a few more years of solid hiring but the number of qualified pilots available will eventually catch up with the demand. Then where will we be?
 
comanchepilot said:
The 'staggering' pilot shortage I shall accept when I start seeing wages rise. Until then - it's like the ice caps melting and all the other climate change hysteria. . . .
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Bad analogy.
 
Timbeck2 said:
500 mph in a tunnel when an earthquake fills in the tunnel? You will be dead a split second before you're buried for sure.
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Stop the train before the earthquake fills the tunnel. Still potentially left with having to dig people out if the tunnels collapse, but that gives a chance to save people if the tunnels don't hold up.
 
Art VanDelay said:
It's almost like the media can't decide on who they like picking on more. Seems it's either Trump or United Airlines !
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But, Trump is a ripe target you have to admit, whereas UAL....oh wait, never mind.
 
When will we start to see airlines getting H1B visas to import pilots to overcome the pilot shortage. That plan seems to better fit the circumstances than the alternatives. Set the stage by seeding article after article about the pilot shortage causing terrible harm to business (and the economy). Raise pay in a manner that is easily and immediately reversible and sell how that has not solved the problem (when the greater issue is the time it takes to fill the pipeline...in particular when base pay remains meager). Then use that to justify Visa applications.

Is there any legal reason why non-US pilots are prevented from flying for US airlines?
 
tspear said:
Too late to avoid automation. A modern airline pilot is more of a systems manager then anything else.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
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Then why does it take 1500 hours + to learn which button to push when the "system" turns a red light on?
 
mondtster said:
So the bonus can be taken away, which was the point mscard88 was trying to make. When the demand for pilots subsides, I'd be willing to bet the bonuses will start to get smaller or disappear altogether. On the other hand, if the hourly rate was higher, making you that $60k, it would be harder to go backwards. Starting pay is looking appealing at the moment however. It's a good time to get in if you want in and you won't have to starve for the first few years.

Just my opinion, but I believe the "shortage" is a temporary thing that was created by a few contributing factors. I think there are probably a few more years of solid hiring but the number of qualified pilots available will eventually catch up with the demand. Then where will we be?
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Problem is current mandatory retirement at 65. There is a bubble, at the same time India, Asia, Africa and South America are expanding and needing more pilots.

But yes. It is largely artificial (I think)

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
bkspero said:
When will we start to see airlines getting H1B visas to import pilots to overcome the pilot shortage. That plan seems to better fit the circumstances than the alternatives. Set the stage by seeding article after article about the pilot shortage causing terrible harm to business (and the economy). Raise pay in a manner that is easily and immediately reversible and sell how that has not solved the problem (when the greater issue is the time it takes to fill the pipeline...in particular when base pay remains meager). Then use that to justify Visa applications.

Is there any legal reason why non-US pilots are prevented from flying for US airlines?
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Not anytime soon. We export pilots.

Tim

Sent from my LG-H631 using Tapatalk
 
bkspero said:
When will we start to see airlines getting H1B visas to import pilots to overcome the pilot shortage. That plan seems to better fit the circumstances than the alternatives. Set the stage by seeding article after article about the pilot shortage causing terrible harm to business (and the economy). REngland, ise pay in a manner that is easily and immediately reversible and sell how that has not solved the problem (when the greater issue is the time it takes to fill the pipeline...in particular when base pay remains meager). Then use that to justify Visa applications.

Is there any legal reason why non-US pilots are prevented from flying for US airlines?
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I don't know what a H1B is exactly, but when I was flying we had pilots from Ireland, England, Canada, Spain, and probably other countries.
 
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