Stabilized approach... IFR...flaps????

I add 10 degrees at the FAF along with gear to lower the pitch angle to something more comfortable. They also help a bit with speed but mostly it helps with the pitch angle. Then once I pop out at mins, it’s easy to get the bonanza on the runway with full flaps and normal runway use.
 
In my Commander at a dot above glideslope, just prior to FAF I'll add approach flaps and drop the gear. When I break out I'll add the second notch of flaps and continue in to land adding the last notch of flaps if runway made and no nasty crosswind action.
 
Salty said:
This. In my Mooney, I don’t use flaps until I have runway in sight. Gear doesn’t even go down until faf. Gear and flap speeds are way too slow to do it earlier. Also makes going missed less adventurous.
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In the J, I stay clean to the FAF, and like to arrive a the FAF well trimmed for 90kts. At the FAF, immediately drop gear and put in takeoff (15 degrees) flaps. With the extra drag it will normally go right down the GS with no change in power or trim needed, maintaining 90kts down the GS. This is a great option as this is normal takeoff configuration, so I'm primed for the missed. Upon breakout, get the power out, full (33 degrees) flaps, and slow to landing speed.
 
Tantalum said:
In the PA28 I was taught 1 notch and 90 knots just before the FAF, IE, about 1 minute before the FAF. From there, leave that config until you break out and have visual with the runway. I was told not to keep messing with flaps and airspeed while in the clouds on a sensitive ILS approach as it can mess up your LOC/Glideslope

To date, I've come out at minimums (in PA28) and not had an issue getting the last few notches of flaps in and slowing down as needed

In something faster, like the SR22, I do one notch and 110 knots just before the FAF. I have, in this plane, when very stabilized, slowed to 90 and put in the next notch of flaps (2 of 2). Otherwise I'm not sure I'd be able to maintain a stable approach from 200' in the air slowing down and getting the last notch in so close to the ground/runway
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I do the same procedure in a pa28 as well
 
midlifeflyer said:
In a 172, if that's how you learned it, stick with it. It works and really, the one experience most report not running into later is being asked to keep speed up. That's when some pilots who learned flapped approaches in a 172 can have a problem if they haven't done it withou them. (The one time I flew an approach at 120 KIAS in a 172 was a lot of fun)
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RE the speed up part, I get asked this a lot where I fly, please keep best speed, the Concorde SST is 2 miles behind.... ok not that bad, but I get the request. I was told by my CFII to respond with what I can do. In the 22 G6 you can put the first notch in at 150, and it slows down impressively when you do that. So I'll tell them I a can hold 150 until just before the FAF, generally that's all they want to hear in my experience. It used to be 120 for me, but as I gain experience the envelope increases.

Also I was taught that if you are not comfortable or ready, "unable" works every time.
 
PaulS said:
RE the speed up part, I get asked this a lot where I fly, please keep best speed, the Concorde SST is 2 miles behind.... ok not that bad, but I get the request. I was told by my CFII to respond with what I can do. In the 22 G6 you can put the first notch in at 150, and it slows down impressively when you do that. So I'll tell them I a can hold 150 until just before the FAF, generally that's all they want to hear in my experience. It used to be 120 for me, but as I gain experience the envelope increases.

Also I was taught that if you are not comfortable or ready, "unable" works every time.
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My favorite is when I'm asked to keep my speed up and then get told to slow by 40 knots..

hey, if I'm 10 Mi out on what is basically a straight in and the air is smooth then who said I can't fly that approach at 180 knots, they asked me to keep my speed up.. right?! lol
 
PaulS said:
RE the speed up part, I get asked this a lot where I fly, please keep best speed, the Concorde SST is 2 miles behind.... ok not that bad, but I get the request. I was told by my CFII to respond with what I can do. In the 22 G6 you can put the first notch in at 150, and it slows down impressively when you do that. So I'll tell them I a can hold 150 until just before the FAF, generally that's all they want to hear in my experience. It used to be 120 for me, but as I gain experience the envelope increases.

Also I was taught that if you are not comfortable or ready, "unable" works every time.
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Absolutely. On both points. Now in some circumstances, ATC might resequence you, but that's OK.

BTW, the ATC handbook says this about requesting speed adjustments:
"Do not assign speed adjustment to aircraft ... Inside the final approach fix on final or a point 5 miles from the runway, whichever is closer to the runway."
So they are not asking us to destabilize our final approach segment.
 
In short one really should be able in to do this in multiple configs/speeds.

Ord Appr used to demand 170 kts on the GS. My preferred method to do that was to be 2 dots low @ breakout, then arrest descent. Bleed airspeed off in a slip, throw out the gear and flaps and let the final as show 90 kt.

YMMV depending upon “what you’re flying...”
 
bbchien said:
In short one really should be able in to do this in multiple configs/speeds.

Ord Appr used to demand 170 kts on the GS. My preferred method to do that was to be 2 dots low @ breakout, then arrest descent. Bleed airspeed off in a slip, throw out the gear and flaps and let the final as show 90 kt.

YMMV depending upon “what you’re flying...”
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“170 to the marker” used to be really common at MSP as well. When I did my Citation checkride, they actually asked for 200 to the marker. The Fed was impressed. ;)
 
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Possum said:
Question on a stabilized approach, IFR, and the use of flaps and the airspeed. If you are on an ILS approach do you use flaps while on the approach or add them when you reach the DA or have the runway in sight? So, when do you apply the flaps on a stabilized approach? Second, at what airspeed would you fly the stabilized approach in a Cessna 172 while on the glideslope? Finally, while on your IFR check ride and you exceed your stabilized approach airspeed by 10+ knots, is it a bust?
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Adding some flaps at FAF is not a bad idea just as a training routine, but in practice, in a Cessna 172 you really don't need to do anything other than reduce power to about 1800RPM and re-trim. At 90 knots you are closer to cruise speed than stall, so flaps is not going to buy you much. It is nowhere close to a pitch angle that affects forward visibility. There should be enough time to extend flaps after breaking out. Even if you break out at 200' AGL you will be about 3/4 of a mile out, which is plenty of distance to slow down a 172 and put in flaps.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Ok...what if you “break out” at 100 feet with 1/2 mile vis?
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If you are shooting to minimums, slow down at the FAF.
If not a 172 will slow down very quickly. Pull the power, add carb heat, level pitch...wait for white arc and full flaps and you are back at about 75 and ready to land at the 1000' markers. Practice it a few times, learn to do it smoothly and it is easy to do at 200 agl. Try it. Very stable and predictable transition.
Even my Comanche will do this but I do have speed brakes that help a lot. With a retract, the key is getting the gear down to slow down....

I don't understand the dogma behind flying a 172 on a 8 mile final so slow.
 
Hunt-man said:
If you are shooting to minimums, slow down at the FAF.
If not a 172 will slow down very quickly. Pull the power, add carb heat, level pitch...wait for white arc and full flaps and you are back at about 75 and ready to land at the 1000' markers.
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That’s what I would assume, but @sarangan ’s posts made it sound like there was some magical limit at 200 feet, below which you have to do something different.
 
MauleSkinner said:
That’s what I would assume, but @sarangan ’s posts made it sound like there was some magical limit at 200 feet, below which you have to do something different.
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The magical limit is that you could dump full flaps all at once and slow down once you are out of IMC. Its not such a great idea in IMC.
 
sarangan said:
The magical limit is that you could dump full flaps all at once and slow down once you are out of IMC. Its not such a great idea in IMC.
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So, again, if you “break out” at 100 feet, you’re good to add flaps? Or do you still need a runway long enough to have RVR to find the ground?
 
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