SR20

R

Rick Wallace

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Avnut
Well i had the opportunity to fly a 2014 Cirrus. I have 2 other partners and we are considering 182 or a sr20. The cirrus salesman , Jonathan Sweatman was great. Very knowledgeable, great pilot, wasn't trying to sell the airplane on anything it wasn't. He flew at least 1.5 hours. I was impressed with the plane. He leaned it out at 4500' and we got 7.5 gph at 133 knots. The plane was quiet. Not sure you would even need noise canceling headsets in this plane. He debunked the myth that a sr20 cannot recover from a spin. In Eeurpoe they have to do spin testing. Overall really impressed with the airplane. 145 knots at 11gph, 7.5gpg at 130knots. Parachute... Great for night flying. Oh crap button to get you level in imc... Spacious interior. Only thing that bothers me is retail value. 182s hold their value better. Cirrus depreciation is terrible. I don't understand it, but it is one of our primary decision factors if we want to move up.
 
Have you thought about an already-depreciated Cirrus? Why pay the depreciation if you can let someone pay it instead?
 
Good Lord...don't buy a new SR20...there are TONS of them on the market at too good to be true pricing...unless you guys just simply want a new bird...

Do not be afraid of the Avidyne avionics...
 
Only real reason to buy a new SR20 is for the A/C and the ability to have 5 seat belts. But, you can get the A/C from an older SR22 if you don't need the 5th seat belt. Also, I prefer the SR20 to the SR22, so I'm an odd duck!
 
The 182 is generally more versatile. It can operate on shorter runways and take a larger payload. Because of this, they often command a premium on the used market. The 182 is the closest thing to an "everything" piston single on the market in its price range.

That said... speed, fuel economy, cabin size--the SR20 wins. But if your home airport isn't big enough or you need to carry four people and baggage, it is a non starter.

As far as which is better for you, you need to look at your mission. If depreciation is a big issue, go for a slightly used plane. Better to get a late 2000s plane that meets your needs than a brand new one that doesn't!
 
You can buy a 2007 2nd Gen SR-20 AND a clean late 70's 182 for the price of a new SR-20. No need to compromise.
 
Actually the 3rd seat belt is the hangup with my partner. Almost impossible to find anything with a third seatbelt even though the 182 is as wide or wider (thanks faa). I can't really blame my partner, he needs 5 seats, but needs a trainer type airplane so we can get our ifr rating. We don' t need 6 seats and 17gph fuel burn(we looked at a stationair, but i couldn't stomach $250 operating cost) while 80% of our flying will be with 4 or less, but it would be unfortunate if he can't fly his family somewhere(3 small kids). Also hard to find a g1000 sr20. I am not terribly impressed with Avidyne, with my limited exposure i have already seen one failure with a $1700 repair bill. If we buy used, it would definitely be a t182t. They seem to hold their value better than cirrus, come consistently equipped with g1000 from 2004+, and are not Chinese. For example i saw a 2007 sr20 with 385 tt hours on the interweb for less than 200k, a 07 182 would be 300k+.

But that being said, sr20 is an extremely efficient plane and a new one with a 3 year warranty might make up for some of the depreciation. We tried to stretch the warranty to 5 years, which would help make up for the depreciation and help with resale value in a couple years, but havent heard back wether that was doable.
 
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1700 dollar repair? You do realize that is chickenfeed with airplanes right?
 
Are you comparing a used 182 to a new SR20?

Remember the SR20s have a warranty + maintenance + bonus depreciation if used for business. 5 year old ones are going for about what you would have gotten in maintenance ($50k), depreciation (net about $100k after paying back for gain on basis for sale), use, warranty, engine time (1000hrs on motor is half life = $20,000 wear), parachute ($5k in wear at 50%)

5 year old SR20s in good shape are easily in the $200kish range...

In other words, you are almost even

Also, just re-read your post, when I looked at one last year, they were throwing in the 5 year warranty as a selling tool, without asking for it...granted it was a "left-over" one with the new model year out, but it didn't matter to me.

They also sometimes have dealer demos that they'll deal on with only a few hundred hours, but all the benefits of the new one (warranty and the like)
 
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Is the SR20 a true 5 seat airplane?
And what will your partner do when those little kids are well on their way to being hulks and the new SR20 is not even close to being paid for but is long, long ago depreciated?
He will want a new 6 seat plane and expect you two to finance 2/3 of it for him, eh.

A "5 seat" airplane is not a take five and their suitcases across the country airplane.
That takes a six adult seats machine and even then you will be off loading fuel to take the middle school queen and her suitcases (plural) with you.
I am seeing a lot of fuzzy thinking. Must be tha tnew math they teach in the schools :D
 
when my brother in law was thinking about getting into flying, he toyed with buying an SR20. I went with him to test fly one and I was impressed. For a 3-person travelling machine it would be a great choice.
 
Dr. O said:
Is the SR20 a true 5 seat airplane?
And what will your partner do when those little kids are well on their way to being hulks and the new SR20 is not even close to being paid for but is long, long ago depreciated?
He will want a new 6 seat plane and expect you two to finance 2/3 of it for him, eh.

A "5 seat" airplane is not a take five and their suitcases across the country airplane.
That takes a six adult seats machine and even then you will be off loading fuel to take the middle school queen and her suitcases (plural) with you.
I am seeing a lot of fuzzy thinking. Must be tha tnew math they teach in the schools :D
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Very good point - may need to find a different partner. With the 3 kids in the back and the wife in the front, baggage for the weekend, how much fuel can the SR20 carry? I would think only a few hours at that point?
 
mrkbbd said:
Very good point - may need to find a different partner. With the 3 kids in the back and the wife in the front, baggage for the weekend, how much fuel can the SR20 carry? I would think only a few hours at that point?
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you + wife + 3 kids flying at cirrus speed, you are shopping for an A36 at a minimum
 
I had a 2006 SR20, cost me $160K in 2009, I sold it for $157K in 2011. I put almost 200 hours on it and only sold it because it lacked A/C. I got my PPL with a Cessna and thought about buying a C182, but, while they are nice, I preferred my Cirrus. Kelvin owned a C182 ( now a matrix) and my friend Todd owned a RV-10. I preferred the SR20 to both of them. It has a wider cabin, I prefer the side yoke (empty lap), I believe the BRS should be standard on all planes (as it provides 1 additional option) and I can still fit my family in one with 5 seats. With full fuel I had 590ish lbs useful load. Wife and I are 330, so 260 for kids and baggage. With full tanks in the Cirrus, we had to pee before we were even close to VFR reserve levels!
 
Having flown both and bought an SR22, I would recommend the SR22.

Not so much for speed, though that helps, but for climb and altitude performance.

The SR22 can do an honest 170k+ on 13-14 gph, and that rivals or beats the economy of the SR20, especially given that any given trip can be done in fewer hours, so scheduled maintenance would be less frequent. Really stunning efficiency is available up to 17,500', where you can see 160+k on about 9gph. Talking NA here if course.

SR20's are sometimes jokingly referred to as UPDT's* on COPA - which I suggest you join immediately. They are not, when flown within limits. But at the edges of their performance envelope they can be a bit doggy.

But good luck with whatever you choose. Fine planes with an excellent Owners/Pilot's forum.

*Under Powered Death Traps
 
It all depends on the mission, flying at 17,500 in an unpressurized airplane is of no interest to me, watching my wife/kids suck oxygen is not worth the hassle. What happens if a tube falls out of kids nose, and you don't catch it, what does reduced oxygen to do their development? While, UPDT is what most on COPA say, it is not true. But, SR 22 pilots need to feel better about themselves for spending the extra $100k :)
 
John,

No need to be defensive - I stipulated the SR20 is a fine choice.

I moved to a demo 2003 SR22 from a Tiger. I found a LOT of utility having the option to fly above the 14,000' maximum of my Tiger. It often meant flying in clear air where the other options were bumping along below or in cumulus clouds or stratus layers, which sometimes held ice..

But both are fine planes. I just think the SR22 is an all around better choice due to its flexibility. Others are free to differ.
 
Sorry, I Wasn't trying to be, I was trying to joke! My smiles didn't come through.
 
This is a perfect example of my advice to buy an older SR20. The depreciation "hickey" is on someone else's neck.


jmp470 said:
I had a 2006 SR20, cost me $160K in 2009, I sold it for $157K in 2011. I put almost 200 hours on it and only sold it because it lacked A/C. I got my PPL with a Cessna and thought about buying a C182, but, while they are nice, I preferred my Cirrus. Kelvin owned a C182 ( now a matrix) and my friend Todd owned a RV-10. I preferred the SR20 to both of them. It has a wider cabin, I prefer the side yoke (empty lap), I believe the BRS should be standard on all planes (as it provides 1 additional option) and I can still fit my family in one with 5 seats. With full fuel I had 590ish lbs useful load. Wife and I are 330, so 260 for kids and baggage. With full tanks in the Cirrus, we had to pee before we were even close to VFR reserve levels!
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Kelvin, above, had a very nice 182, but if I remember correctly he paid significantly more than I did. I also remember him flying from New Orleans to Fayetteville non-stop. No way my families bladders could do that. I found 3.5 hours in the air to be max for us. Anything longer and bottles were needed :)
 
Whether SR20 or SR22, a factory demo can be a good option.

My 2003 SR22 had 165 hours, with a new engine and prop*, when I bought it in 2003 for $330k. New, it would have been $389k.

I sold it 4 years later with about 600 hours (I think) for $290k**.

Still a depreciation hit, but a lot less than if I had bought new.

Just something to consider.


*While in Duluth for prep, it suffered a prop strike while taxiing - hence the zero time IO550N and prop. I was told that would be seen as "accident history" and adversely affect resale. It did not seem to.

**My only major upgrade was factory O2 for about $6k.
 
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jmp470 said:
Kelvin, above, had a very nice 182, but if I remember correctly he paid significantly more than I did. I also remember him flying from New Orleans to Fayetteville non-stop. No way my families bladders could do that. I found 3.5 hours in the air to be max for us. Anything longer and bottles were needed :)
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John, I bought the 182 brand new. Flew it for 850ish hours over 4 or so years and sold it for 35K less than I bought it for...the deal I got from AirCare was truly a good solid deal that made buying an easy decision.

Our two experiences I think are typical for depreciation...

I did many 4 hours trips in the 182. No kids though...
 
I didn't recall the exacts of your deal, but I remember you did very well. Even with your 172. I also like your new plane.... it makes me think of the piper more and more. Even the Saratoga is an option. I like the wider cabins than the beech aircraft.
 
How do you find out about demo units? Our salesman leased a plane to fly down here for us to demo. He acted like demos were not available and everything was built to order.
 
When I was in the market, the salesman/demo pilot put that forward as an option.

I'd check with Cirrus directly to see if they still offer demos at a discount.

If so, a good way to get a "new" plane with a warranty at a slightly reduced price.

Worked for me!
 
Hey Ice guy - you did notice the fake logs, eh?
There has been some monkey business.
My offer would not exceed 60K for that machine.
It may actually be worth more as yellow tagged parts.
 
Dr. O said:
Hey Ice guy - you did notice the fake logs, eh?
There has been some monkey business.
My offer would not exceed 60K for that machine.
It may actually be worth more as yellow tagged parts.
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With 650 hours, there should not be a whole lot in the logs...

Great price for the airframe unless it has been wrecked/crashed/otherwise altered.
 
Rick Wallace said:
How do you find out about demo units? Our salesman leased a plane to fly down here for us to demo. He acted like demos were not available and everything was built to order.
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There are demo Cirrus aircraft. Obviously, the largest seller is the SR22 so it may be that the SR20's are not so readily available for demo.

It would shock me if there was not a new SR20 sitting on the ramp in Minnesota or halfway through production at all times.
 
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