Sporty's electronic E6B

[HPNFlyGirl]

My instructor said it would be a good idea to purchase an electronic E6B from Sporty's. Does anyone on here own one and how do you like it?

 

[tonycondon]

I have an aluminum E6B and love it. works when the batteries die too. gives me a good feel for all the calculations going on. of course, im a sucker for slide rules and vector addition...

 

[Nav8tor]

I've used one for years. I like it alot.

 

[Ghery]

I agree with Tony. I like my aluminum E6B, too. No worry about batteries. No worry about display hybrids dying. Both of which have happened with my HP-41CV calculator. Plus, I can operate my E6B with one hand. No can do with the electronic type. Very handy when the air isn't smooth. Plus, I can set the flight conditions (fuel flow, speed, whatever) and evaluate different options without pushing any buttons, just look elsewhere around the scale. Can't do that with the electronic types.

 

[flykelley]

My instructor said it would be a good idea to purchase an electronic E6B from Sporty's. Does anyone on here own one and how do you like it?

Hi HPNFLYGIRL
I have a asa cx-1 that you can have for the cost of shipping. It will need batteries as the one's in it are dead. I haven't used it for a couple of years now but it should still work ok. It has a case and also a cheat sheet of sorts. All I ask is that when you are done with it pass it on to someone who can use it. Email me with a shipping address if you want it.
flykelley930@aol.com or send me a PM

Regards Mike

 

[Chache]

I have both the aluminum "No Batteries Needed" model and the electronic.
Pros, and cons .....

Aluminum
Pro- Fits nicely in the trifold kneeboard pocket
Pro- Easy to use, lightweight etc.
Pro- can be worn around the neck on a lanyard.

Con- Difficult to read the small print on the "NBN" model.
Con- sometimes need two hands to operate.

Electronic
Pro- easy to use, carry, etc.
Pro- Fits in flightbag, (there is a kneeboard model available)
Pro- Can be operated with one hand

Con- Difficult to see the LCD in some lighting conditions.
.......Even with "good" batteries.
Con- Needs those extra small "AAA" batteries

Hmmm....... Just went to see if batteries were OK.........
NOPE! ......Need new ones!

I think they're just about equal, carry both, and feel comfortable with either.

Uh huh! I'm sure that helps alot....
Sorry...

 

[flyersfan31]

Welllllllll..........

If I were to buy another electronic one, I'd go with the ASA. Big numbers, feeds results through subsequent calcs. Some will counsel you that a manual one will never need batteries, etc. I still remember my time as a student pilot, though, and pushing buttons seemed to me far easier than spinning wheels and lining up tiny little hashmarks. I'm approaching bifocal age, so those little hashmarks were a little hard to see.

As a seasoned 185hr pilot, I now see the manual E6B light. Ever since Ron L shared the secret of the rings (Speed = Time over Distance), in place of the A ring, B ring, C ring gobbledegook, I've found the manual version easy to use. It also retains results for subsequent calcs.

If you have the disposable income, I would say the ASA electronic version will do what you want easily, without headaches. Any answer is a button push away. If you're debating the $50 incremental cost over a $25 manual version, and really would like to use that $50 for flight time, buy a manual version, run through a whole bunch of sample calcs (remember, Speed = Time over Distance) until you're comfy with it.

And, if you really want an electronic one, and don't want to spend a lot, I'll sell you my Jepp Techstar (or whatever it's called) cheap!!!!

 

[jesse]

I bought a decent metal E6B when I was a student. I haven't used it since. The only thing I would ever want to use the thing in the air for is time and distance problems. It's a *hell* of a lot easier for me just to use a calculator to do it.

Want to know how fast you're going over the ground? Time how long it takes to go one mile. 3600 / that time = your ground speed. Any other time and distance problem can also easily be solved.

I never have a reason to figure out a wind correction angle before the flight. Quite frankly it's never been that accurate. The winds aloft are not always the forecast. It's a useless number. You have to adjust in the air. I guesstimate a heading on the ground and go with that. I adjust it once I get in the air to acheive the desired course.

If you are going to buy one..I'd say just buy a cheap one. The only thing I *ever* used mine for was wind correction on the ground for XC training. I even used a calculator on my checkride to figure time and distance.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

<SNIP>
Want to know how fast you're going over the ground? Time how long it takes to go one mile. 3600 / that time = your ground speed. Any other time and distance problem can also easily be solved.
<SNIP>

Easy to see one mile in Nebraska. Difficult to do on the East Coast where they don't lay out things true North/South/East/West at one mile intervals. Even so, the miles are statute miles, as far as I can make out (Ok if you stay in that unit of measurement).

I still use my fiberboard E6B that came with my student kit- it works well, hasn't broken, and it helps VFR flight planning. For IFR, I used it to guestimate the corrections for holds before lessons.

 

[jesse]

Easy to see one mile in Nebraska. Difficult to do on the East Coast where they don't lay out things true North/South/East/West at one mile intervals. Even so, the miles are statute miles, as far as I can make out (Ok if you stay in that unit of measurement).

I don't see the point in your arguement. E6B does not make it any easier to see a distance on the ground. The same applies as far as units go too.

If you can't visually identify a mile on the ground. Time two distances between two points on your sectional. Now you'll be in nautical miles.

Or use two VOR radials.

 

[ScottM]

My instructor said it would be a good idea to purchase an electronic E6B from Sporty's. Does anyone on here own one and how do you like it?

I have one and I like it a lot more than my metal E6B. It last a long time on a set of batteries and is pretty easy to operate. I use it exclusively on the ground. In the air I use the e6b in the GPS.

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

My instructor said it would be a good idea to purchase an electronic E6B from Sporty's. Does anyone on here own one and how do you like it?

Brook, it is great ON THE GROUND for flight planning and even for "regular" calculator problems. I recommend you get real comfortable using the slide rule type of E6b for in flight use. I was even required by Ray Wells (RIP) to demonstrate its use on the practical ride. I have a Electronic one (Sporty's) you can borrow to see if it suits you. PM me if so, I am in town visiting family until the 25th. Just happens I am about 6 miles from JNX and would be glad to meet you there if so. In fact, I can save you some $ if you want to buy mine after a "test ride" I never use it because I use my ASA cardboard E6B.
Regards,

 

[cwyckham]

(remember, Speed = Time over Distance)

I'm sure you meant to type Speed = Distance over Time.

Chris

 

[cwyckham]

I never have a reason to figure out a wind correction angle before the flight. Quite frankly it's never been that accurate. The winds aloft are not always the forecast. It's a useless number. You have to adjust in the air. I guesstimate a heading on the ground and go with that. I adjust it once I get in the air to acheive the desired course.

While the winds aloft forecasts tend to be wrong, they also tend to be "sort of" right. Right enough for fuel calculations, but maybe not to get the wind correction angle to the nearest degree.

How do you do your fuel calculations without working out wind triangles?

Chris

 

[Capt Kirk]

I have the Sporty's electronic E6B...I've only used it for written tests. One thing I don't like about it is that the switch tends to turn on in my flight bag.

Len

 

[Chache]

.........the switch tends to turn on in my flight bag.

Len

Yep....
That's why mine needs new batteries, after only 3 months!

 

[jesse]

How do you do your fuel calculations without working out wind triangles?

I have at least four hours worth of fuel. It's pretty rare that I'm going to be in the air that long. Most of my flights are 100 NM. 100 NM is going to take me a hour. If I'm moving along at 25 knots over the ground...Well I'll probably just turn around and get back to the airport in like three minutes, land, and just drive there.

I get a standard briefing from flight service as I drive to the airport. They give me winds aloft. If the winds aloft are a factor I'll plan on a fuel stop. If not, I won't. If I'm in the air and I'm not moving very fast. I'll use my head and say hey..maybe I should get some fuel. I'll land and get some.

Here is a good example of winds aloft from today:

 

[flyersfan31]

DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, stupidity would also factor into problems using the manual version.

Yes, of course I meant Distance (miles) / Time (hours). What a F$(&#ing maroon!!!!! And no, Ron didn't guide me wrong, I just transposed while sharing the wisdom. (Smack in the forehead.)

 

[cwyckham]

I have at least four hours worth of fuel. It's pretty rare that I'm going to be in the air that long. Most of my flights are 100 NM.

Fair enough. 3 hours of reserve is probably sufficient on a 1 hour trip. I don't worry too much about fuel calcs either when I've got that much fuel for a short trip. However, on a 350 nm trip, I certainly want to be thinking about the wind.

Chris

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I don't see the point in your arguement. E6B does not make it any easier to see a distance on the ground. The same applies as far as units go too.

If you can't visually identify a mile on the ground. Time two distances between two points on your sectional. Now you'll be in nautical miles.

Or use two VOR radials.

That wasn't your equation. Please see your equation below, and thus my point.

Time how long it takes to go one mile. 3600 / that time = your ground speed.

I wasn't disputing your method- it works well out here. Out east, the other methods you mention work better.

 

[jesse]

That wasn't your equation. Please see your equation below, and thus my point

Uhm. My equation works for any method that you want to use? You can easily use VOR radials to identify two points on your course and measure it on your sectional. Really I don't care if you throw a rock at the moon and measure the angle that it bounces back. If you want to use smoke signals and do an indian dance in the airplane that's cool. All you need to know is the distance between two points and how long it took you to travel that. It doesn't matter how you get the distance it took you to go between two points. It's completely irrelevant.

If it's two miles... 3600 * 2 = 7200 / TIME
Half a mile...3600 / 2 = 1800 / TIME

Time = Distance / Speed

Distance = Time * Speed

Speed = Distance / Time

So let's try it!!!

Solve for Speed

Speed = 100nm / .5 hour
Speed = 200 knots

Or..let's try this!

Speed = 4 nm / 60 seconds

We want nautical miles per hour. Not nautical miles per second. Sooooo

60 / 3600 = .016
4 / .016 = 250 knots


Speed = Distance / Time
That's all you need to know.

 

[SkyHog]

So if you know your total trip is 103nm, you can't use Jesse's formula unless you can see perfect square cutouts on the ground?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Jesse-

Time how long it takes to go one mile. 3600 / that time = your ground speed.

This is merely a special case of time speed distance. Please read your quote. You specified one mile, not me.

If you want the last word, you'll get it. I actually read your post. I was only commenting that picking out a single mile is easier in the Midwest than on the East Coast. I wasn't disputing the other points you made in your previous post.

 

[jesse]

Jesse-



This is merely a special case of time speed distance. Please read your quote. You specified one mile, not me.

If you want the last word, you'll get it. I actually read your post. I was only commenting that picking out a single mile is easier in the Midwest than on the East Coast. I wasn't disputing the other points you made in your previous post.

I was assuming that the average person here understood math well enough to convert my example to any distance. Perhaps that was a mistake.

 

[ScottM]

So if you know your total trip is 103nm, you can't use Jesse's formula unless you can see perfect square cutouts on the ground?

Here in the midwest it is easy to see one mile markers on the ground as most of the lots in farm country are 1 mile/side squares.

 

[SkyHog]

Here in the midwest it is easy to see one mile markers on the ground as most of the lots in farm country are 1 mile/side squares.

Right, but what does that have to do with total distance? Or distance between two checkpoints?

That's my point. Cap'n Jack is harrassing Jesse about something that is right.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Skyhog-

I NEVER said that Jesse's equation was wrong. I AGREE that speed=distance/time.

I only questioned the applicability of a special case of the equation in a place where there aren't many clear 1 mile markers. I am only saying that in that case, you fall back on the more general equation, as Jesse has stated.

I didn't realize I was harassing anyone and I apologize if they felt harrassed.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I only questioned the applicability of a special case of the equation in a place where there aren't many clear 1 mile markers. I am only saying that in that case, you fall back on the more general equation, as Jesse has stated.

Awww man, another thread that's fresh out of nits by the time I get to it...

 

[poadeleted20]

For two reasons, I concur with those who say skip the electronic calculator and stick with an aluminum E-6B -- no batteries to die in flight, easier one-handed operation in flight.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I have bought three.
- aluminum e6b bent.
- steel e6b broke apart into its several pieces.
- electronic e6b 1/2 display stopped working.

I now use internet to plan and my brain to update. Haven't lost my mind yet.
- Aunt Peggy

 

[poadeleted20]

I have bought three.
- aluminum e6b bent.
- steel e6b broke apart into its several pieces.

Jeepers, Peggy, I took an aluminum E-6B through 2000 hours of fighter flying, including 4-6g maneuvering, low levels through the mountains in 50-knot winds (turbulence that left helmet marks on the canopy), and carrier cat shots and traps -- and it survived all that. What in the heck do you do to your pilot tools?

 

[AuntPeggy]

Sat on the aluminum one.
Left the electronic one inside tied-down plane summer and winter.
Don't know what caused the other to fall to pieces.
- Aunt Peggy

 

[Richard]

Jeez guys! Get a grip.

Brooke, I would suggest the manual. One, as a student it is important you learn the relationships between what you are calculating. The electronic E6B won't teach you as well because you mostly learn which buttons to push. I say learn the basics first and later you can become a button pusher if you want. Two, it really is easy and you may become so proficient you will solve faster than any electronic E6B. Three, it's one handed. Four, no batteries required. Five, who gives a rat's ass about distance expressed to the 10th decimal? It may only confuse you.

Fuel burn is something you will want to know to the 10th of a gallon. The manual is just as accurate as the electronic version here. Distance is more accurate on the electronic but you do have your flight plan, landmarks, and clock, right?

Besides, when using the electronic version if you miss a keystroke or input in the wrong order you may have to start all over again. Not so with the manual.

As far as carrying 3 hours reserve fuel on a one hour flight, there will come a time when you won't have that luxury. There will come a time when you have to carry only enough for the flight plus reserves. Knowing winds aloft is always important. The manual E6B is much easier to use. This makes for a reduced workload in the cockpit. It also means you will be more apt to use it. Sure, you can guesstimate the winds but why not use the tools you have?

 

[jesse]

As far as carrying 3 hours reserve fuel on a one hour flight, there will come a time when you won't have that luxury. There will come a time when you have to carry only enough for the flight plus reserves. Knowing winds aloft is always important. The manual E6B is much easier to use. This makes for a reduced workload in the cockpit. It also means you will be more apt to use it. Sure, you can guesstimate the winds but why not use the tools you have?

I make flights quite often that exceed the range of the aircraft on one tank of fuel. There is nothing on that manual or electronic E6B that I can't quickly do in my head. How much fuel do I have left? Look at the hobbes meter and my watch and say hey I've been in the air for 3.5 hours. 3 hours x 9 is 27 gallons plus 4.5 gallons is 31.5 which leaves me with 8.5 gallons remaining which works out to exactly one hour of flight time. If I fly a 172 on a normal XC I burn 8.6 gallons per hour. I plan for 9. I can have that figured out long before you'll get your E6B out.

It's never in the airplane. Does that make me a bad pilot? I just did a XC on Monday which worked out to 3.7 hours of flight time. I didn't have a GPS or anything fancy. I knew my ground speed, my distance remaning, and my ETE. The only time I ever used anything was to figure out the ground speed and that was because I don't like dividing 3600 by something in my head.

To each their own. I don't need a E6B to fly. It's never in the airplane with me. I have never used it in flight. If you want to use an E6B, Cool. But don't try to make it sound like it's irresponsible not to. It's all simple math.

 

[HPNFlyGirl]

Oh I mean I know how to use the manual E6B...my CFI just recommended I get the electronic version to make life easier.

 

[ScottM]

Oh I mean I know how to use the manual E6B...my CFI just recommended I get the electronic version to make life easier.

and that is essentially the issue. Get the SProty's one. It works great and is easy to use. Keep you manual version and use it from time to time to remember how to use it.

 

[cwyckham]

I make flights quite often that exceed the range of the aircraft on one tank of fuel. There is nothing on that manual or electronic E6B that I can't quickly do in my head. ...
To each their own. I don't need a E6B to fly. It's never in the airplane with me. I have never used it in flight. If you want to use an E6B, Cool. But don't try to make it sound like it's irresponsible not to. It's all simple math.

I think it all depends on the type of flying you're doing and how good your mental math abillities are. It certainly isn't irresponsible to launch without calculation tools on some flights, it might be on others.

For example, in the type of flight you gave above, all you need to know is how much flying time you have left, distance to the airport, and your ground speed. If you decide you're running too low on fuel, you can divert to one of the many closer airports.

The problem arrises when the potential alternate airports aren't so close together or your flight path isn't a straight line (such as when you have to fly through a mountain pass, avoid a large area of bad emergency landing options, or whatever).

Scenario 1: Your groundspeed when flying due north is 100 knots, and your crab angle is 15 degrees to the left. Your airspeed is 130 knots. You will be too low on fuel for comfort at your destination based on mental calculations. There are two possible airports to divert to. Neither is so close that it's a no-brainer that you'll make it regardless of wind. One is to the left and one to the right. The one to the left is a bit closer. Which one do you choose?

Scenario 2: Your groundspeed when flying due north is 100 knots, and your crab angle is 15 degrees to the left. Your airspeed is 130 knots. Your flightplan involves a 90 degree turn to the left ahead because you're skirting a large lake for safety reasons (you would be out of gliding distance from shore if you took a straight path). You know how far it is to the airport and how much fuel you have, but how do you calculate your groundspeed for the upcoming leg? Because the airports are few and far between, you need to decide now whether to divert or to continue or you could end up in a place without the fuel to reach any airport. How do you decide?

Chris

 

[jesse]

Scenario 1: Your groundspeed when flying due north is 100 knots, and your crab angle is 15 degrees to the left. Your airspeed is 130 knots. You will be too low on fuel for comfort at your destination based on mental calculations. There are two possible airports to divert to. Neither is so close that it's a no-brainer that you'll make it regardless of wind. One is to the left and one to the right. The one to the left is a bit closer. Which one do you choose?

You didn't give me any information about how far either airport was for you to tell me which one I would chose. Quite frankly if I *really* thought that I wouldn't make one of the airports I would be looking for a makeshift airport to use instead. Land in a nice field sounds a hell of a lot better than crashing into a forest or city. I can operate a 172 in less than five hundred feet for takeoff or landing. Would I put my life on that? No. But I'd put my life on landing on a nice looking 1,200 foot or so hay field vs. putting myself into a situation that I could no longer control and was guesstimating.

Scenario 2: Your groundspeed when flying due north is 100 knots, and your crab angle is 15 degrees to the left. Your airspeed is 130 knots. Your flightplan involves a 90 degree turn to the left ahead because you're skirting a large lake for safety reasons (you would be out of gliding distance from shore if you took a straight path). You know how far it is to the airport and how much fuel you have, but how do you calculate your groundspeed for the upcoming leg? Because the airports are few and far between, you need to decide now whether to divert or to continue or you could end up in a place without the fuel to reach any airport. How do you decide?

Chris

Once again. No information.

If there was any question and I couldn't tell myself based on what I knew in my head I would divert long before I started guesstimating my life with some crude numbers and the spin of the E6b. Or I'd just cut across the lake. Most engine failures are from a lack of fuel not a magical engine failure that only happens over lakes.

I fly a cross country at least once per week. I have never been in either of those situations because that just cannot happen in this area. I'm not a bush pilot in middle of nowhere Alaska. Cross country is more about making good decesions before you ever get into the airplane.

 

[jesse]

This isn't about you, it is not relevent whether you do it on the ground or in the air, or what tools you use or don't use.

What this is about is Brooke's Q. Go read the Q again if you are unsure if this applies to you.

This should not be about calling into question your pilot skills, it is simply about what and why to help Brooke choose a tool. Stop trying to make this about you. That is all.

I'm a drama queen. I like the attention. My mommy didn't hold me enough and my daddy said I was ugly.

Or...

We were just having a conversation and you are making something out of nothing...

I'm leaning towards number two.

 

[tonycondon]

I'm a drama queen. I like the attention. My mommy didn't hold me enough and my daddy said I was ugly.

sounds about right to me!