Sport vs. PPL

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
One does need a medical / PP for that trip.
Click to expand...

It's doable in LSA.. a Pipistrel Virus puttering along at 120knots sipping 3.8gph would be "low and slow" and entirely legal. I'm guessing a true LSA licensed only person would need radio/controlled airspace endorsement but it should be doable. whether or not you would want to, I dunno.. I suppose if I had the time/money to go low and slow it may be one of the best pilot experiences one could ever have.

of course i'd want to go the experimental route and have feathering proper 140knot cruise and slope soar a t the same time :) (ppl thusly required)

well, I take it back, does Canada not allow LSA overflight? would you have to ship to Alaska then fly again?
 
supernovae said:
It's doable in LSA.. a Pipistrel Virus puttering along at 120knots sipping 3.8gph would be "low and slow" and entirely legal. I'm guessing a true LSA licensed only person would need radio/controlled airspace endorsement but it should be doable. whether or not you would want to, I dunno.. I suppose if I had the time/money to go low and slow it may be one of the best pilot experiences one could ever have.

of course i'd want to go the experimental route and have feathering proper 140knot cruise and slope soar a t the same time :) (ppl thusly required)

well, I take it back, does Canada not allow LSA overflight? would you have to ship to Alaska then fly again?
Click to expand...

Canada does not recognise the U.S. Sport Pilot Certificate or non-medical PP flying under SP rules. I don't know about E-LSA / S-LSA certificated aircraft. E-AB can be done.

The Pipstral Virus is certificated as an airplane and not a self launch glider?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The Pipstral Virus is certificated as an airplane and not a self launch glider?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, you can get it however you want. LSA, Experimental / SL Glider and it may depend on the variant you chose (Virus SW so on and so forth) - lsa obviously certified only for 120knot and no feathering prop
 
Silvaire said:
But I think the OP, Aviatrix wisely bailed on her own thread when all the nonsensical boasting and bickering started.
Click to expand...

Nope, still reading but definitely overwhelmed by the debate that has taken place.

I was suppose to have my second lesson yesterday but it canceled due to the airport just being ice from the blizzard so haven't been up in the Tecnam yet. I rescheduled for tomorrow so hoping the airport will be fine, my CFI will be checked out in the Tecnam and they will be dug out from the snow since I was told they were buried.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
You said you love the 172....
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. Actually, I was quite ****ed right before we went up because they screwed up my reservation so I was thinking it's not my instructor (since she wasn't checked out) and wasn't my plane. It was fun to fly in but even if I would go PPL without training in Tecnam I'd probably do the 152 just because it's close to the price I budgeted. The 172 is $30 more an hour and would definitely add up a lot over the course of a PPL if I went that route.
 
Aviatrix said:
I didn't say that.
Click to expand...

The way it was written, we(or I) anthropomorphized the 172 as 'she' being the noun referenced the sentence before the verb 'loved' (to love).

Sorry. :D
 
With a Virus registered as a glider and a glider license that trip is doable eben after being denied a medical.
 
Hi Aviatrix. My advice is (if you are young and healthy, or at least healthy with no cardiac events/history or cancer, etc.) is to go for the PPL. The cost of a Class III Medical isn't that big of a deal unless you have to have a bunch of tests, etc., and if you have your PPL, you can always fly as a SPL. The reverse is not true, and the SPL has some restrictions that you may come to regret being held to.
 
Aviatrix said:
Nope, still reading but definitely overwhelmed by the debate that has taken place.

I was suppose to have my second lesson yesterday but it canceled due to the airport just being ice from the blizzard so haven't been up in the Tecnam yet. I rescheduled for tomorrow so hoping the airport will be fine, my CFI will be checked out in the Tecnam and they will be dug out from the snow since I was told they were buried.
Click to expand...

You'll LOVE the Tecnam. I've done almost all of my flying in Eaglets (and the Echo Super, the Eaglet's predecessor), and they are a real blast to fly. The flight controls are where they should be (stick) and they're nice and responsive. Visibility is excellent. I'm not sure what the price difference between the 152 and the Tecnam is, but I'd suggest going for all your training in the Eaglet. You won't regret it :).
 
bartmc said:
My second plane, and soon, will be a Cessna 120 or Cessna 140 (My wife wants one). Gotta shed a little debt and then my box hangar will be full, because I want both. If I only had an SPL, I'm not sure I could have either. Does a C-120 make it in to LSA? I think C-140s are a few lbs too heavy.

After re-reading the posts, is it true that after 120hrs of training you can do the MX on your LSA (not the experimental ones)?
Click to expand...

The 120 and 140 are not LSA for the single reason that their gross weight of 1450 lbs exceeds the 1320 lb limit set in the LSA rules. Even if you were to own something that was compliant such as a J3 Cub, Taylorcraft, Luscombe 8A or Champ 7A Those are still not LSA aircraft, they are just certificated aircraft that a Sport Pilot could legally fly because they do not exceed any of the criteria required of LSA.

So no, you could not do maintenance on them as a certified LSA Repairman, only on aircraft that are certified as LSA.
 
Silvaire said:
The 120 and 140 are not LSA for the single reason that their gross weight of 1450 lbs exceeds the 1320 lb limit set in the LSA rules. Even if you were to own something that was compliant such as a J3 Cub, Taylorcraft, Luscombe 8A or Champ 7A Those are still not LSA aircraft, they are just certificated aircraft that a Sport Pilot could legally fly because they do not exceed any of the criteria required of LSA.

So no, you could not do maintenance on them as a certified LSA Repairman, only on aircraft that are certified as LSA.
Click to expand...

But you could with a SkyCatcher?
 
Silvaire said:
The 120 and 140 are not LSA for the single reason that their gross weight of 1450 lbs exceeds the 1320 lb limit set in the LSA rules. Even if you were to own something that was compliant such as a J3 Cub, Taylorcraft, Luscombe 8A or Champ 7A Those are still not LSA aircraft, they are just certificated aircraft that a Sport Pilot could legally fly because they do not exceed any of the criteria required of LSA.

So no, you could not do maintenance on them as a certified LSA Repairman, only on aircraft that are certified as LSA.
Click to expand...

I've heard that EAA says you can use your experience as a LSA repairman to qualify to take the A&P. That would be a nice transition.
 
An odd question but if one has both a Canadian recreational pilot permit and a sport pilot license from the US can they fly between the two countries (observing the limitations of such licenses)?
 
Get a Sport cert first. When you fly your solo cross country, don't fly the Light Sport cross country, fly the PPL cross country. For every Sport requirement fly the PPL requirement that is applicable. Then take your Sport check ride. Now you can legally go fly around the pasture with a friend, while you are working on your PPL, and you have already done a bunch of the requireds for PPL.
 
Shepherd said:
Get a Sport cert first. When you fly your solo cross country, don't fly the Light Sport cross country, fly the PPL cross country. For every Sport requirement fly the PPL requirement that is applicable. Then take your Sport check ride. Now you can legally go fly around the pasture with a friend, while you are working on your PPL, and you have already done a bunch of the requireds for PPL.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

If you're going to enjoy your sport pilot's license anyway, why not put flight hours in the bank in case you decide to go further later. Better to do it than not. You're not spending any more money that you wouldn't be spending flying anyway. Win, win.
 
Shepherd said:
Get a Sport cert first. When you fly your solo cross country, don't fly the Light Sport cross country, fly the PPL cross country...
Click to expand...

I don't think the aircraft matters, you could get a Private license flying nothing but an Evecktor or Tecnam. It's the qualifications of the instructor that matter.
 
I say PPL. I don't recall learning much of anything superfluous when I got mine, suggesting to me that the training was valuable, to me. I don't think anyone would argue that more training is bad. If one really likes the LSA's then one can fly them after one gets one's ticket.

The extra stuff taught in the PPL is likely to be very useful. Here's the rub. Flight schools are ephemeral, just because they have a couple LSAs today doesn't mean they'll have them tomorrow. They could crash, get sold, Odin only knows. But most flight schools have airplanes.

Getting the PPL gives one choice, so long as one is medically fit according to the FAA, which in reality means less and less to yours truly. If one wants to get the SP simply for economy's sake one is playing to a false economy by ruling out a flotilla of perfectly good vintage aircraft now available in this country for a pittance.

To the OP, the only thing I would add is in your situation you might consider taking some vacation time and putting yourself through an accelerated program. Sounds like a real hassle to get to the airport, and expensive to boot. There are plenty of programs from which to choose.
 
Silvaire said:
I don't think the aircraft matters, you could get a Private license flying nothing but an Evecktor or Tecnam. It's the qualifications of the instructor that matter.
Click to expand...

I have roughly 95% of my flying time in Tecnam P92s, mostly Eaglets and an Echo Super thrown in for good measure. I got my Sport first then upgraded to Private in them.
 
Last weekend I flew 2 hours from Raleigh to Hilton Head Island IFR at night after work, and back home on Sunday. With three passengers, full fuel, and 80 pounds of stuff in the baggage compartment. In a Piper Warrior I rented for $105/hr. (Yes, under gross. The girls in the back are about a buck-ten each)

Can't do that in an LSA. I do fly an LSA cub and its an awful lot of fun to fly around solo. But I enjoy traveling and the utility of a bigger, faster airplane.
 
Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still undecided just because I haven't been in the Tecnam yet. It seems forever until my next lesson due to her having a corporate trip and I'm going on a quick vacation as well. But hopefully she'll be checked out in it by then.
But let's say I do go the PPL route, is there any specific plane that you guys would recommend over another? The school has 2 152s, 3 Tecnams, 3 Piper Warriors (with Garmin 430), and only 1 172 (they have 3 others but they have nice GPS systems so therefore more expensive and would push my budget too much).
 
Aviatrix said:
Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still undecided just because I haven't been in the Tecnam yet. It seems forever until my next lesson due to her having a corporate trip and I'm going on a quick vacation as well. But hopefully she'll be checked out in it by then.
But let's say I do go the PPL route, is there any specific plane that you guys would recommend over another? The school has 2 152s, 3 Tecnams, 3 Piper Warriors (with Garmin 430), and only 1 172 (they have 3 others but they have nice GPS systems so therefore more expensive and would push my budget too much).
Click to expand...

Which ever one is cheaper.
 
Aviatrix said:
Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm still undecided just because I haven't been in the Tecnam yet. It seems forever until my next lesson due to her having a corporate trip and I'm going on a quick vacation as well. But hopefully she'll be checked out in it by then.
But let's say I do go the PPL route, is there any specific plane that you guys would recommend over another? The school has 2 152s, 3 Tecnams, 3 Piper Warriors (with Garmin 430), and only 1 172 (they have 3 others but they have nice GPS systems so therefore more expensive and would push my budget too much).
Click to expand...

Try a few of them out and see which one you like best. At your level that is the most important consideration, IMO. Just make sure it is with a PPL CFI so any hours count no matter which way you go. If you know now that you will be going on to an IR, then I would take the 430-equipped Warrior but I do not think that you are looking at that at this point, correct? So just go with what you like, even if it is the color of the upholstery that attracts you :) That is what I would do in your position.
 
Based on the planes you listed, I would probably go with the C-152. It is likely the least expensive and is fun to fly.
 
somorris said:
Based on the planes you listed, I would probably go with the C-152. It is likely the least expensive and is fun to fly.
Click to expand...

Ah but she will do less total hours in the tecnam, hence cheaper. And 40 years newer, we are so used to old junk we are blind to how pathetic our old junk is:hairraise:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Ah but she will do less total hours in the tecnam, hence cheaper. And 40 years newer, we are so used to old junk we are blind to how pathetic our old junk is:hairraise:
Click to expand...

Choose wisely

staggerSFF.JPG


msquare-breeseDS.jpg
 
Remove ego/mutual appreciation and the bottom one is probably more fun. Where can one get primary instruction in a staggerwing? What is the hourly rate? Can renters take the staggerwing for overnights?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Remove ego/mutual appreciation and the bottom one is probably more fun. Where can one get primary instruction in a staggerwing? What is the hourly rate? Can renters take the staggerwing for overnights?
Click to expand...

Ill take the pathetic old staggerwing for fun. But, I guess that's just my blindness.

When you spend less time in the tecnam, none of that's an issue is it? I don't rent, so I can't comment on the availability of much. Do you really want to comment on the availability of aircraft wrt LSAs? But, I know where a Great Lakes and a few Stearmans are. Downown Aviation in Memphis comes to mind. Their Stearman is very reasonable(same wet rate as their citabria,about 150/hr IIRC), almost got my TW in it.

Where you going overnight in the LSA? I suppose you will be staying the night if the sun sets, or you could just take a cab home. But hey, at least you saved enough money for a cab ride or two by cheaping out on your primary training.
 
Last edited:
bartmc said:
Do you really want to comment on the availability of aircraft wrt LSAs? But, I know where a Great Lakes and a few Stearmans are. Downown Aviation in Memphis comes to mind. Their Stearman is very reasonable(same wet rate as their citabria,about 150/hr IIRC), almost got my TW in it.
Click to expand...

LSAs are readily available for rent around me. I rent from a flight school with three Tecnam Eaglets, one Sierra, a CT, a Remos GX, and two Sky Arrows. That's 8. Granted it's the biggest light sport flight school in the country......but even so, if that weren't an option, the flight school next door has a Remos GX, the one down the road from there has one or two 162s, one the other way has a 162. At JYO, which is the other way from me, they have two 162s (two flight schools each have one), and there's one at HEF. Also some farther out in VA, I think, but I don't know off the top of my head.
 
I know I'm tardy to the party, but I was in the OP's shoes when I first started. I ended up going for the PPL. Bigger planes, more flexibility, more training on radios, larger airports, can fly at night, etc. Plus, I had a hard time squishing myself in a Tecnam Sierra.
 
Silvaire said:
. . . But I think the OP, Aviatrix wisely bailed on her own thread when all the nonsensical boasting and bickering started.
Click to expand...


Ding, ding, ding . . . nevertheless I enjoyed reading it all. Almost every post had a valuable nugget or two of objective information. :D

All in all, everyone has their own reasons for flying. What is key is that the flying public continues to grow.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Remove ego/mutual appreciation and the bottom one is probably more fun. Where can one get primary instruction in a staggerwing? What is the hourly rate? Can renters take the staggerwing for overnights?
Click to expand...

Exactly..

If there was a means and need for such a beautiful airplane I don't think LSA would even be on the table, but to put these two concepts out there as if they're the choice you're making.. silly at best. Unless the price of the two were comparable.. at all lol
 
supernovae said:
Exactly..

If there was a means and need for such a beautiful airplane I don't think LSA would even be on the table, but to put these two concepts out there as if they're the choice you're making.. silly at best. Unless the price of the two were comparable.. at all lol
Click to expand...

CnS was just explaining to us how blind we are to the reality of how pathetic old planes are. I agree we are blind to it. One only needs to put an ancient relic like a Staggerwing beside a new Sporty LSA to open their eyes and see just how pathetic old the old planes are in comparison to the Sporty new LSAs. :D
 
bartmc said:
CnS was just explaining to us how blind we are to the reality of how pathetic old planes are. I agree we are blind to it. One only needs to put an ancient relic like a Staggerwing beside a new Sporty LSA to open their eyes and see just how pathetic old the old planes are in comparison to the Sporty new LSAs. :D
Click to expand...

There was a time when you couldn't give away an old POS staggerwing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top